Netflix - Making a Murderer

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SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
82
86
The point of this thread is not about YOU watching some shitty documentaries, it's the SUBJECT of this documentary that should be at the very least interesting to you.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
You're the one whining because I said "show".

Get over yourself.
 
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SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
82
86
That's because you're retarded, what's next? You're gonna tell me to "relax"?

Seriously, what is it that I need to "get over"?
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
I feel like the documentary almost had to leave a ton out that would otherwise explain the atrocious behavior by these officials. I too was incredulous at the many WTFs.

Minor spoiler:

Did anyone else catch the part of the trial where the judge gives Steven 3 options for when the juror had to be excused? One of the options was a mistrial... why was that not taken? Weren't they seeking a mistrial earlier for other reasons?

Yup I caught that
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I feel like the documentary almost had to leave a ton out that would otherwise explain the atrocious behavior by these officials. I too was incredulous at the many WTFs.

Minor spoiler:

Did anyone else catch the part of the trial where the judge gives Steven 3 options for when the juror had to be excused? One of the options was a mistrial... why was that not taken? Weren't they seeking a mistrial earlier for other reasons?

A few reasons possibly. 1. He didn't have the money to keep paying those lawyers and 2. He was tired of sitting in jail, and a mistrial would have started the process all over again.
 

TwiceOver

Lifer
Dec 20, 2002
13,544
44
91
Halfway point
and I think he is guilty. Maybe not the nephew who is a little less than simple, but...
I'll probably flip flop after the next episode though.
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,695
117
106
I didn't realize the entire 10 episodes was about one case. I gave it up after 4 and just Google searched it.
 

CraKaJaX

Lifer
Dec 26, 2004
11,905
148
101
I got a late start as I've been busy with the holidays and all. I watched the first two episodes with the fam last night. It's so hard to not click all these spoilers....!!!
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
After watching the first 4 episodes the whole thing is a disaster. I don't see how this has occurred in America. Regardless of the outcome, the appointed lawyer had it right, he was still supposed to be presumed innocent at the prelim, instead it seemed like a witch hunt. I really felt like evidence was planted this early in the series, though.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
I didn't realize the entire 10 episodes was about one case. I gave it up after 4 and just Google searched it.

10 episodes seemed a lot to me, appeared a lot of things were just getting rehashed all the time.

But having an opinion had SSSnail go ballistic on me for some reason.
 
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slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,679
119
106
Where to begin...like most of these stories, there was certainly enough reasonable doubt to find him not guilty. The tampered with blood tube with a needle mark? The key found after many days by the people who weren't supposed to be involved. The complete lack of blood. If there was blood in the car, both Teresa's AND Steven's, why would Steven leave the car there, and why wouldn't there be blood anywhere else? Garage or trailer, there would be blood. The hardest part to explain is the bones, and there aren't too many explanations other than saying the cops killed her. You can argue much easier that they planted the car and key, but the body parts, that's tough. But considering how many unethical and horrible people were involved in the case, I suppose anything is possible. I think it's scarier to consider how common people like that are, willing to prosecute and jail people with no regard for truth. The Brendan case is even more fucked up. What a shame. Hopefully the series will help uncover some new information. Amazing that it was only released now
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
For those who think he was actually guilty of the murder... why? He had a very strong case worth millions, and even without the case he had over $400k coming to him in restitution for the earlier false imprisonment. What was his motive for committing such a crime and doing it so stupidly?

Based on the documentary, I certainly think Steven Avery is innocent. Maybe if they left out enough key details I could consider changing my mind, but I doubt it.
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,679
119
106
For those who think he was actually guilty of the murder... why? He had a very strong case worth millions, and even without the case he had over $400k coming to him in restitution for the earlier false imprisonment. What was his motive for committing such a crime and doing it so stupidly?

Based on the documentary, I certainly think Steven Avery is innocent. Maybe if they left out enough key details I could consider changing my mind, but I doubt it.

That's another thing, there's no motive. The only explanation is "steven is an evil person" but that's playing off the false rape accusation. I was so angry when the judge at sentencing talked about steven's "crimes" progressing and getting worse as he gets older. He was most definitely including that false rape conviction, because weren't his other crimes little petty stuff, nothing out of the ordinary for someone with his background? Coming from the judge that's unacceptable. The bias and unfair judgement is very frustrating
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,991
3,171
136
Where to begin...like most of these stories, there was certainly enough reasonable doubt to find him not guilty. The tampered with blood tube with a needle mark? The key found after many days by the people who weren't supposed to be involved. The complete lack of blood. If there was blood in the car, both Teresa's AND Steven's, why would Steven leave the car there, and why wouldn't there be blood anywhere else? Garage or trailer, there would be blood. The hardest part to explain is the bones, and there aren't too many explanations other than saying the cops killed her. You can argue much easier that they planted the car and key, but the body parts, that's tough. But considering how many unethical and horrible people were involved in the case, I suppose anything is possible. I think it's scarier to consider how common people like that are, willing to prosecute and jail people with no regard for truth. The Brendan case is even more fucked up. What a shame. Hopefully the series will help uncover some new information. Amazing that it was only released now
First of all, the judge was obviously biased. He only ruled in favor of the defendants when there was very little wiggle room for him and if he didn't it would be too suspicious. But otherwise, that was a kangaroo court. Just the idea that the defense couldn't point to other suspects to create reasonable doubt is absurd. It's like tying a both hands a foot behind the back of the defense.

As far as the bones go, those could have easily been moved. Personally, I wondered why they didn't try to establish whether or not they had a full skeleton. Her body could have been burned somewhere else and then they moved just enough bone fragments to imply guilt.

It's also suspicious that the car was parked at the very edge of their property. Obviously that area could have been accessed by almost anyone at any time.

But the lack of any blood evidence is the most damning. You don't shoot someone in the head and NOT leave trace evidence for many yards in all directions. That's also absurd.

This is really frustrating.
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
First of all, the judge was obviously biased. He only ruled in favor of the defendants when there was very little wiggle room for him and if he didn't it would be too suspicious. But otherwise, that was a kangaroo court. Just the idea that the defense couldn't point to other suspects to create reasonable doubt is absurd. It's like tying a both hands a foot behind the back of the defense.

As far as the bones go, those could have easily been moved. Personally, I wondered why they didn't try to establish whether or not they had a full skeleton. Her body could have been burned somewhere else and then they moved just enough bone fragments to imply guilt.

It's also suspicious that the car was parked at the very edge of their property. Obviously that area could have been accessed by almost anyone at any time.

But the lack of any blood evidence is the most damning. You don't shoot someone in the head and NOT leave trace evidence for many yards in all directions. That's also absurd.

This is really frustrating.

Well clearly the Averys are a clean folk

I am shocked that the DNA on the bullet was allowed to stick around. I am shocked that they didn't make a bigger deal out of the fact that they have a smelter on site and who wouldn't use that to dispose a body? Hell, you have 40 acres of space to hide evidence, why would it be so obvious?

Check out Ken Kratz's Yelp page.

Ken Kratz is an incredible prosecutor! When I wanted to get my husband out of the picture I got the local sheriff's department to 'discover' *wink wink* a murder on our property. My husband was zeroed in on in a jiffy! Attorney Kratz was able to put him away for life by skirting the defenses questions and skewing the concept of reasonable doubt. I've got the entire house to myself now! Thanks Ken Kratz!

He appears to be a classy guy, overall: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-da-ken-kratzs-law-license-suspended-in-sexting-scandal/
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,679
119
106
First of all, the judge was obviously biased. He only ruled in favor of the defendants when there was very little wiggle room for him and if he didn't it would be too suspicious. But otherwise, that was a kangaroo court. Just the idea that the defense couldn't point to other suspects to create reasonable doubt is absurd. It's like tying a both hands a foot behind the back of the defense.

As far as the bones go, those could have easily been moved. Personally, I wondered why they didn't try to establish whether or not they had a full skeleton. Her body could have been burned somewhere else and then they moved just enough bone fragments to imply guilt.

It's also suspicious that the car was parked at the very edge of their property. Obviously that area could have been accessed by almost anyone at any time.

But the lack of any blood evidence is the most damning. You don't shoot someone in the head and NOT leave trace evidence for many yards in all directions. That's also absurd.

This is really frustrating.

the lack of blood is really hard to believe. if steven somehow cleaned up all that blood, he would have cleaned the car too. and in regards to the car, blood but no prints? makes no sense.

agreed the bones could have been moved, but it's another stretch to say the cops moved them, which would be knowingly ignoring the true killer, if it wasn't the cops themselves. it's hard to think about all the scenarios though, change one thing and everything else changes.

what about the bullet? can't they tell whether it was used to shoot someone? or it was just a random shot with Teresa's dna? idk. and isn't there a reliable EDTA test? that part of the series was confusing, the defense attorney was trying to find a test and then he was all worried once the prosecution got the FBI to do it. ok, so maybe it wasn't reliable (we don't really know, just that the defense witness said the detection levels weren't indicated? couldn't that have been looked into? that's where the potential bias of the documentary team comes into play) but why not find a reliable test? not possible?

oh, and speaking of physical evidence, combined with the car having steven's blood and no prints, no Teresa blood anywhere other than the car, the KEY has steven's dna but none of teresa's? only explanation seems to be that steven somehow cleaned it, and then accidentally touched it again and threw it behind the bookshelf? on the other hand, if planted by police, they might have a reason to clean it. once recovered, you want to be certain you have none of your own dna on there as evidence before planting it. you don't want to have to argue that someone accidentally grabbed it when they found it.

and how about polygraph tests? are they done anymore? Brendan apparently asked to take one, and he sure as hell couldn't beat it dishonestly, so imo that gives him credibility. I'm guessing defense attorneys don't want them done for the most part.

Steven could have committed the crime but there are way too many inconsistencies. combined with the previous actions of the law enforcement towards steven, I don't see how there wasn't reasonable doubt. if there was one shred of motive, maybe it would be more convincing, but so much relied on steven spending 18 years in prison as if he has actually committed a crime to end up there. he doesn't seem like a bad or violent person, and for him to kill someone after being proven innocent previously, that would be some crazy odds
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
What about the blood vial evidence from him that was opened and clearly extracted from?
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,991
3,171
136
agreed the bones could have been moved, but it's another stretch to say the cops moved them, which would be knowingly ignoring the true killer, if it wasn't the cops themselves. it's hard to think about all the scenarios though, change one thing and everything else changes.
I don't think that the cops moved them. I think they were moved by the killer who I think was either the ex boyfriend or the husband and helped by Barb Janda.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...ied_theory_bones_barb_janda_and_mike_halbach/
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...ied_theory_bones_barb_janda_and_mike_halbach/
 
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slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,679
119
106
the ex-boyfriend and brother both are suspicious. also, the harassing phone caller was never identified? the documentary had to leave things out?
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,991
3,171
136
W.I.T.F? Wow that just takes it down a completely different unexpected path...
It explains all of the evidence but potentially requires having at least a few people in on the conspiracy. That's possible, but we still don't have motive.
 
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