Netflix - Making a Murderer

[Mathlete]

It's crazy that this has been made into a Netflix series. This happened about 7 miles away from where I lived at the time.

 

[TwiceOver]

Just passed episode 3. Seems I can do 2 a night, so I'll be ready to discuss this in about 4 days. damnit.

 

[mcurphy]

Started watching this last night when I crawled into bed, next thing I knew it was almost 2am! For the few hours I did get to sleep I was dreaming about this crazy case, lol! Damn, this story is insane. I have lived in WI for over 15 years, and I remember hearing about this whole thing on the news, but I had no idea what was really going on.

They have been discussing the documentary on the local WI news stations and of course the Sheriff's Dept and others related to the prosecuting team in the case are bashing it. Some calling it a "film" and not portraying all the facts. Regardless of whether or not all the facts are in the film, what they do show is some pretty damning evidence of malpractice.

I am exhausted today at work, but at least I am off for the next 4 days so that I can catch up on some sleep (and by sleep I mean finish the rest of this series).

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Spoiler

so if he cut her throat while shackled to the bed, where is the blood???? I am a fan of Lt kenda and his stories about the homicides he has solved and one thing is constant. Stabbing victims leave a lot of blood behind. So cutting that woman's throat should have left a ton of blood evidence on the walls, ceiling, and ESPECIALLY the mattress. None of it was presented in court. D:

Spoiler

I presume at the trial the State didn't present the stabbing/throat slitting allegation because they elected not to call Brendan as a witness. Rather, they stated that the cause of death was a gunshot wound. Still, the lack of any trace blood evidence at all is pretty damning to the State's case.

 

[MarkXIX]

The degree of legal and judicial fuckery in this jurisdiction and this case is simply astounding to me.

While I understand there may be some bias in the documentary, I cannot reasonably see how the jury could have come to the conclusion that he did it with all of the other possibilities presented by the defense. You didn't have to believe the cops planted evidence, you just had to believe in the reasonable doubt they presented on every single piece of key evidence.

I firmly believe that the jury's mind was made up ahead of time with the media's coverage of everything before the trial.

Also, who was the hot reporter with the librarian glasses? I'd like to see more of her on screen.

 

[Artdeco]

It's crazy that this has been made into a Netflix series. This happened about 7 miles away from where I lived at the time.

Sooo, where were you on the nights in question?

 

[SearchMaster]

Just finished the first episode last night. I will say I was a tad bit disappointed after the hype in this thread but we'll keep watching. This type of storyline is right up my wife's alley so I suggested it to her based on what I read here...unfortunately she fell asleep for a few minutes and woke up at the end, confused as hell about what was going on

 

[MarkXIX]

I'm finishing up the last episode right now. Keep watching. It goes from mundane to astounding pretty quickly.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Just finished the first episode last night. I will say I was a tad bit disappointed after the hype in this thread but we'll keep watching. This type of storyline is right up my wife's alley so I suggested it to her based on what I read here...unfortunately she fell asleep for a few minutes and woke up at the end, confused as hell about what was going on

You don't start going WTF D: until around episode 3-4 (if not by 4..I don't know what to say).

@Mathlete: did you also have a deep seeded hate for the family?

 

[MarkXIX]

How the ever loving fuck can the prosecution argue that the kid was complicit in and participated in a heinous sexual assault and murder with ZERO FUCKING SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE?!?! How do these mother fuckers sleep at night knowing what they've done?

Not to mention, if such a brutal murder took place on that bed, why is it that in every fucking photo of the crime scene the mattress is still present? How? Not one bit of evidence of biological transfer to sheets or bed or carpet in a room where a woman was supposedly brutally raped, stabbed in the stomach, and throat cut. Not one bit.

Man, knowing this is real is going to haunt me for a while.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

How the ever loving fuck can the prosecution argue that the kid was complicit in and participated in a heinous sexual assault and murder with ZERO FUCKING SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE?!?! How do these mother fuckers sleep at night knowing what they've done?

Not to mention, if such a brutal murder took place on that bed, why is it that in every fucking photo of the crime scene the mattress is still present? How? Not one bit of evidence of biological transfer to sheets or bed or carpet in a room where a woman was supposedly brutally raped, stabbed in the stomach, and throat cut. Not one bit.

Man, knowing this is real is going to haunt me for a while.

Spoiler

I have not finished the show but I have inadvertently learned what happened. I have real misgivings about Steven Avery's guilt, but can certainly see that it's fairly likely he's guilty. The piece of evidence that gives me the most pause, though, is the recordings of his discussions with his fiancee that day (which were, as I recall, at around 3 pm, when he would have just abducted Teresa Halbach - if he did so - and at around 8) - he sounded calm, relaxed and focused on their conversation. I find those calls very hard to square with his guilt.

As for Brendan Dassey, I literally see no reason to believe he was guilty. His "confessions" were made under highly coercive circumstances, and totally uncorroborated by the evidence. I firmly believe he was wrongfully convicted, in no small part because of the horrifically bad judgment of his lawyer, Len Kachinsky. I will be sending that idiot a nasty-gram after I have completed watching the show. I have been a lawyer for 17 years, and was raised by a criminal defense attorney/judge. I have never, ever seen or heard of a criminal defense lawyer making the kinds of horrible errors in judgment that Kachinsky did.

 

[ImpulsE69]

How the ever loving fuck can the prosecution argue that the kid was complicit in and participated in a heinous sexual assault and murder with ZERO FUCKING SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE?!?! How do these mother fuckers sleep at night knowing what they've done?

Not to mention, if such a brutal murder took place on that bed, why is it that in every fucking photo of the crime scene the mattress is still present? How? Not one bit of evidence of biological transfer to sheets or bed or carpet in a room where a woman was supposedly brutally raped, stabbed in the stomach, and throat cut. Not one bit.

Man, knowing this is real is going to haunt me for a while.

It isn't immediately apparent - although I guess they slightly touch on it in the first episode, but not until the last episode do you actually hear about what the entire community thinks of the family.

Spoiler

The statement and crying by the defense investigator has been mistaken by many as feeling guilty for what he did, but it isn't. If you listen to what he's saying, he HATES the entire family and thinks they should all be locked away - and he is crying over Theresa's death. I can't say one way or the other if Steven did it, but I am positive the nephew wasn't involved at all. What is very clear - regardless of documentary bias - is these guys did not get fair trials. I am fairly certain the judge was in on it too, just by his sentencing statements. I was at least expecting him to lecture the jury about their decision, but he was as bad as the prosecutors. And then the fact the nephew actually got charged with MORE counts than Steven with no evidence pointing to it at all (and the prosecutor in the earlier case saying Steven acted alone). It is just insane.

At least I think we can rest easy in that both the prosecutor and Kachinsky are no longer lawyers (well at least Kachinsky).

Remind me never to move to Wisconsin.

 

[mcurphy]

A question for any lawyers in regards to Dassey in episode 4 about something that really bothered me:

Spoiler

When Dassey decided to ask the judge for new representation, the judge asks him a series of questions that he answers truthfully. The last question the judge asks is something along the lines of "Why do you want a different lawyer or why don't you want Len K?" and Dassey answers "because he thinks I'm guilty"

And then, the judge acts like he a) didn't hear this part or b) completely ignores it, and says nothing sounds out of the ordinary, motion dismissed, or whatever the phrasing was.

WTF, isn't that about the best damned reason a person could have when asking for new representation?

 

[TwiceOver]

Damnit. I want to watch more so I can uncover those spoilers.

UGH.

 

[ImpulsE69]

To everyone asking questions when you are only about half way through...I highly suggest just waiting until the end so it can be discussed freely. There are more things shown later and some of it makes more sense after the last episode. Trust me I had the same questions as many here when I hit episode 4 - and by that time you are so incredulous that it is hard to not just google the case to find out what happens.

That being said, there is no happy ending here and TONS of things left hanging.

 

[Mathlete]

You don't start going WTF D: until around episode 3-4 (if not by 4..I don't know what to say).

@Mathlete: did you also have a deep seeded hate for the family?

Actually, no. My brother-in-law worked on cars. Demo derby stuff and fixed others up to resell them. I would go to Avery's salvage once in a while and pick parts. Allan, the father, was really nice and always helped. Never met Steven. They were always a little
"off". But never got the super crazy vibe from out there. Needless to say, like everyone else, he stopped going there after the ordeal.

 

[Bart*Simpson]

Years ago I once said to my wife that if she really wanted to f*** me over all she had to do was walk away from the house one day and leave literally everything behind: Her car, purse, etc.

And the police would knee-jerk accuse me of murder and do their best to put me in prison even without a scintilla of evidence to support that charge.

She said it would make a good movie.

She was right.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2267998/

 

[MarkXIX]

I don't know what exactly he was complicit in, but Officer Colburn was guilty of something just witnessing his testimony.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I don't know what exactly he was complicit in, but Officer Colburn was guilty of something just witnessing his testimony.

We got that vibe too, he got very uncomfortable when the license call in was brought up.

 

[MongGrel]

I gave up on it around 5 myself.

I usually like shows like this but just could not get into this one personally.

 

[SSSnail]

I've been watching this, and while it's appalling to me, I'm not a least bit surprised.

I gave up on it around 5 myself.

I usually like shows like this but just could not get into this one personally.

It's not a "show", it's documentary, as in, actually happened.

 

[JasonCoder]

I feel like the documentary almost had to leave a ton out that would otherwise explain the atrocious behavior by these officials. I too was incredulous at the many WTFs.

Minor spoiler:

Spoiler

Did anyone else catch the part of the trial where the judge gives Steven 3 options for when the juror had to be excused? One of the options was a mistrial... why was that not taken? Weren't they seeking a mistrial earlier for other reasons?

 

[MongGrel]

I've been watching this, and while it's appalling to me, I'm not a least bit surprised.



It's not a "show", it's documentary, as in, actually happened.

I realize that, blah blah blah, etc.

 

[SSSnail]

I realize that, blah blah blah, whatever.

Yeah, I know right? Who cares about a corrupt system, or corrupt officials that are supposed to act in your best interests? Who fucking has time for that? Trivial bullshit.

Let's get back to our football, miss Universe snafu, and my little ponies.

 

[MongGrel]

Watched two Documentaries myself today.

They are over on the movie thread if you care to check em out. *shrug*.