Network specialist?

[guidedbyechoes]

I'm currently about 3 months away from starting my education as a network specialist. I previously took a semester of electrical engineering and didn't do very well. I switched programs, but am on academic probation and need to keep 2.0 or higher. So I've decided to go all in on this; not just meet the minimum but, do as much as possible to be the top of my class. It will certainly be a challenge since I work 40 hours a week. I have no choice other than to succeed.

My classes so far are: Intro to CCNA 1
Intro to Web Development
Fundamentals of Support
I entered the course thinking my only option was to be CCNA ready, but the other options I was giving to specialize in were virtualization and security. Realistically I am more interested in CCNA certification or security. I have to make my decision on which path I should follow by second semester which will be here before I know it.

So what I would like to know:

What is your job?
If you were to hire someone, what are the most important things they should know?
Market saturation?
How long do you think that job will be viable? (I almost enrolled in a computer repair program)
Positives?
Negatives?
Suggested reading?

Any and all help will be appreciated.

 

[Comblues]

I'm currently about 3 months away from starting my education as a network specialist. I previously took a semester of electrical engineering and didn't do very well. I switched programs, but am on academic probation and need to keep 2.0 or higher. So I've decided to go all in on this; not just meet the minimum but, do as much as possible to be the top of my class. It will certainly be a challenge since I work 40 hours a week. I have no choice other than to succeed.

My classes so far are: Intro to CCNA 1
Intro to Web Development
Fundamentals of Support
I entered the course thinking my only option was to be CCNA ready, but the other options I was giving to specialize in were virtualization and security. Realistically I am more interested in CCNA certification or security. I have to make my decision on which path I should follow by second semester which will be here before I know it.

So what I would like to know:

What is your job?
If you were to hire someone, what are the most important things they should know?
Market saturation?
How long do you think that job will be viable? (I almost enrolled in a computer repair program)
Positives?
Negatives?
Suggested reading?

Any and all help will be appreciated.

What is your job?

1. Network Engineer / Administrator / Manager / Architect / Specialist / Technician

If you were to hire someone, what are the most important things they should know?

Integrity - If you did it admit it.

Teamwork - Got to learn to get along with co-workers well.

Communications - Written and Verbal - non-Verbal are great too.

Technical - Most managers tend to believe they can teach the technical - not my gut feeling - I look for raw talent, capability and never say die attitude.

TCP/IP - Binary Math, Subnetting, etc.

How to use Vendor Support Systems

Learn the Spanning Tree Protocol

Learn the OSI Model and How it works / Why it must work

The routing process - how a router selects a route and inserts it into the routing table

ARP - Overlooked but very invaluable

Ethernet/Fiber Specifications

Cisco's 3 Layer Model and the Top Down Approach

Troubleshooting - Divide and Conquer, Top Down, Bottom Up, etc.

Documentation

Log files

Debug Tools

Backup the Configs ASAP

Market saturation?

Not anytime soon.


How long do you think that job will be viable? (I almost enrolled in a computer repair program)

I'm 44 and I'd say I'm safe into my retirement years so far.

Positives?

Autonomy, I like to do what I want when I want and as long as my vantage on top priorities syncs with management I do whatever I like.

Love what you do and you'll never work a day in your life.

Negatives?

You won't always get a lot of direction, so you have to learn to keep yourself busy and look for opportunities by studying your own network or whatever you are given to work on. Inventory may sound boring, but if you ever want to get new equipment then you have to keep track of what you have, update it to the max, and then get ready for the next generation gear for example.


Suggested reading?

Cisco Validated Design Guides - Top Down Network Design - CCDA/CCDP Books - Network Warrior - From Surf to Surfer - The list goes on and on...


Comblues

 

[Comblues]

I'm offering a private "Enterprise Network Operations" hands-on opportunity which includes all of the above as a distributed project for people learning.

I've started my apprentice on this track from literally "no prior knowledge" and I am training her from the ground up.

Along the way, I've procured a building with adequate electrical and cooling facilities to house about 10-12 84U Racks (7 Feet High). They are loaded smack full of gear and this is what we are working on.

High Availability, Remote Services, DMZ / Load Balancing, Campus, WAN, Enterprise, etc.

Participants are being asked to contribute to participate to help cover the costs of maintaining the project.

This is the kind of opportunity I think most people are missing in our field as they go from the Cisco Academies into the job world.

I use templates and tools to help one be able to replicate the process when the folks get out into the world of work.




Comblues

 

[guidedbyechoes]

I'm offering a private "Enterprise Network Operations" hands-on opportunity which includes all of the above as a distributed project for people learning.

I've started my apprentice on this track from literally "no prior knowledge" and I am training her from the ground up.

Along the way, I've procured a building with adequate electrical and cooling facilities to house about 10-12 84U Racks (7 Feet High). They are loaded smack full of gear and this is what we are working on.

High Availability, Remote Services, DMZ / Load Balancing, Campus, WAN, Enterprise, etc.

Participants are being asked to contribute to participate to help cover the costs of maintaining the project.

This is the kind of opportunity I think most people are missing in our field as they go from the Cisco Academies into the job world.

I use templates and tools to help one be able to replicate the process when the folks get out into the world of work.




Comblues

Yeah, I started following your journal. That is very commendable. I will, unfortunately, only be able to learn theory until I get into school and use hands on. I've only set up small networks and dealt with home use wireless systems, thus far. I see you also have security credentials in your sig. Would you care to elaborate? Thanks for the starting info; I had never even heard of half of these things.

 

[Comblues]

I see you also have security credentials in your sig. Would you care to elaborate?

Hmmm... Security?

In my sig, I only mention the CCSP or Cisco Certified Security Professional aka CCNP + Security.

I've had these credentials since starting with Cisco's Managing Cisco Network Security back in like 2001 or so.

So...

What do I do or better yet what have I done in the Security space?

Good question.

On the corporate level in today's networks I do a lot of the following:

1. Firewall Administrator - Manage access to or from the network.

Network Address Translation

Firewall Auditing - Simple things like making sure logging is enabled and working properly and time synchronized is a biggie.

SNMP has to be enabled and working as desired.

Performing Packet Captures and utilizing the information obtained to help resolve simple to very complex issues in the network - slowness, loss packets, runts/giants, CRC errors, various flags, tcp retransmissions, etc. Simple can we get there (from here or there, wherever that may be), etc.

Lots of ARP, TraceRoute, and PING for example.

VPNs - Mostly every type of VPN - gotta have access

Authentication - 2-Factor, RSA, PKI, AAA, Local, etc.

Password Rotations

All this leads me to the ACS Server or the given RADIUS Server to pass the credentials to the Domain like the Active Directory or Novell Directory Services, etc.

Guest Wireless Access - We find this an anchor WLC in the DMZ and of course this falls into my domain too. So I configure it, maintain it, and operate it.


My work with VPNs can be quite interesting. So I ensure people know I do this.

Load Balancing comes into play with my work in the DMZ or Data Center.

Everything comes down to knowing binary and how to apply access lists to everything. QoS, Route-Maps, Distribute-Lists, etc.

---------

On the flip side - I'm an old (now) MCSE 2000 and 2003 + Security.

This means I'm certified, experienced, and qualified with the Microsoft.

I had to know quite about domains, permissions, rights etc.

So I did that.

My Microsoft/Unix/Linux/Novell Admin Jobs were mostly migrating Novell, Unix, and Linux to a Microsoft platform.

I'm trained as a Microsoft DBA to some extent and I was hired on contract to learn how to use Crystal Reports, Design some Reports, Optimize them, and then teach it...

Not bad work for about $150.00 per hour if you have the time for it.

Not my thing.

But I learned a bit about databases and security that way. My goal was learning quite a bit about how to keep the data and access it for my security goals. I exceeded my goals.

--------

I also do Intrusion Detection and Intrusion Prevention.

I have performed Forensics Investigations successfully for the F.B.I. which have resulted in convictions.

I have served as an expert witness for various aspects of Security.

--------

I have survived various audits and have created rock solid security designs which have survived a few PCI Audits.

I use DNS and DHCP in the scope of Security right along with the rest of it.

I'm a Sniffer Certified Master - like Professor Messer for example.

I use a lot of tools pretty easily.

I found knowing E-Mail Systems to be very helpful, so I was a Lotus Notes Email Admin, Groupwise Admin, Sendmail Admin, and finally... I got certified as an MCSE 2000/2003 + Messaging.

Nice!

This is all still in the realm of security.

I've gotten paid about $12,000.00 to clean up behind Nimda and Code Red and ended up fixing Proxy Servers and the associated Exchange E-Mail Servers too.

I've had to fight off hackers and by doing this I had to rebuild exchange and SQL Servers - various types of SQL Servers.

I've had to take over e-mail accounts and basically hack into them to do what I had to do.

I've had to take over botnets - TK Worm was my first.

I've had to learn all about the POSIX file systems and become familiar with the NT WARDOC by Rhino9, etc.

Buffer Overflow Exploits were kewl once upon a time.

Rainbow Tables at another time.

Media Server hacking - I've had to take them back.

Hunting down distributed worms over a network and putting the pieces back together - done it.

Quite a list...

I've had to take out facebook and paypal from a certain wannabe "terrorist operation, followed by a very coordinated DoS on the site and forum of the folks who were responsible for the issue at hand.


More stuff...

I've been paid for "proof of concept" stuff related to emails, dates, and proving it for court cases.

I've had to prove or dis-prove people were hacking.

I've hunted down child sex offenders.

I've had to help develop a coordinated "Castle Defense System" network design.

The list goes on and on...

Over the years I've done a lot of Security related tasks.


In my job as a Network Specialist - I get asked to take over networks.

So I perform a network assessment and then I proceed to hunt down the File Servers (SMB/TFTP/FTP/etc.) and then I take them one by one, then I use the information to leverage my take-over of the network.

After that I take out the network elements.

I may use buffer overflow exploits or password crackers to take out other elements of the network.

Sometimes I take over via wireless.

I then establish command and control over the network.

Then I proceed to take root wherever needed.

It doesn't take long before I have administrative access to the majority of the network of know what I don't have.

SQL Servers has its weaknesses so I take the helm there too if asked.

The list goes on and on...

I could write about this for days and days really.

Does this help a little?

Comblues

 

[Comblues]

On the IDS/IPS part of security - I capture traffic or sniff it out and I use the associated information to write signatures for the interesting traffic for example.

Then I tune it so as to not affect operations.

I set up communications systems to help me coordinate operations when I work with other people or teams.

I favor/prefer/demand security protocols - both ways.

I do the SAN work too. So that means I work with VSANs versus VLANs.

Really the list goes on for quite a while.

Physical Security is also another domain of mine.

I earned the Certified Ethical Hacker credentials once upon a time - I hacked the instructor who claimed some experience. Hey he said he was good... Had to find out for sure...

I hacked the Sniffer Instructor when I was taught by Sniffer University - No biggie, but he was a Sniffer Professional Trainer (Master) and I was not... Had to earn my stripes - undetectable and hiding in plain sight.

He gave me everything after I told him what I had done over lunch.

Too kewl.

Comblues

 

[guidedbyechoes]

On the IDS/IPS part of security - I capture traffic or sniff it out and I use the associated information to write signatures for the interesting traffic for example.

Then I tune it so as to not affect operations.

I set up communications systems to help me coordinate operations when I work with other people or teams.

I favor/prefer/demand security protocols - both ways.

I do the SAN work too. So that means I work with VSANs versus VLANs.

Really the list goes on for quite a while.

Physical Security is also another domain of mine.

I earned the Certified Ethical Hacker credentials once upon a time - I hacked the instructor who claimed some experience. Hey he said he was good... Had to find out for sure...

I hacked the Sniffer Instructor when I was taught by Sniffer University - No biggie, but he was a Sniffer Professional Trainer (Master) and I was not... Had to earn my stripes - undetectable and hiding in plain sight.

He gave me everything after I told him what I had done over lunch.

Too kewl.

Comblues

Security sounds a lot more interesting to me but I've never done any hacking ethical or otherwise. Ethical hacking is a class offered if I go that route. It just seems like it would be more enjoyable than simply maintaining and optimizing networks.

 

[Comblues]

Security sounds a lot more interesting to me but I've never done any hacking ethical or otherwise. Ethical hacking is a class offered if I go that route. It just seems like it would be more enjoyable than simply maintaining and optimizing networks.

I have to tell you I recall back in 1997 or so sitting at a restaurant talking with a few of my MCSE classmates from University of Phoenix (where I attended Networking Essentials before the bottom fell out of the financing and they dropped my class like a rock - it was their first or second class as I recall) and we pretty much said the same thing.

The truth is the fun for me is in the optimizing and maintaining part of the deal.

It's fun when the action starts real-time but if you don't know your network... you just won't be having fun for long, besides where would you begin to look for intruders or interesting issues?

You have to know your network and your systems - down to the PC's or other devices if you really want to get to know security.

I'm not talking about people who just put check marks on lists either.

I mean in the trenches security - the fun stuff.

Comblues

 

[guidedbyechoes]

I have to tell you I recall back in 1997 or so sitting at a restaurant talking with a few of my MCSE classmates from University of Phoenix (where I attended Networking Essentials before the bottom fell out of the financing and they dropped my class like a rock - it was their first or second class as I recall) and we pretty much said the same thing.

The truth is the fun for me is in the optimizing and maintaining part of the deal.

It's fun when the action starts real-time but if you don't know your network... you just won't be having fun for long, besides where would you begin to look for intruders or interesting issues?

You have to know your network and your systems - down to the PC's or other devices if you really want to get to know security.

I'm not talking about people who just put check marks on lists either.

I mean in the trenches security - the fun stuff.

Comblues

That is all true. My issue though is I have to chose if I want to finish the CCNA or specialize in security. There really isnt an option to do both. I have to chose which path I'm going in so I can set up the correct route.


These are my choices for the last semester :

Category #1:
Project Management Tools
ITIL v3 Foundations
Business Continuity Planning
Information Systems Design
Category #2:
CCNA 3
Intrusion Detection & Firewall
Ethical Hacking
VMWare vSphere 5 Install & Config
CCNA 4
Wireless Networking & Security
VMWare View: Install & Config
VoIP/Convergence

I need 3 classes and at least one from each group.

 

[Comblues]

That is all true. My issue though is I have to chose if I want to finish the CCNA or specialize in security. There really isnt an option to do both. I have to chose which path I'm going in so I can set up the correct route.


These are my choices for the last semester :

Category #1:
Project Management Tools
ITIL v3 Foundations
Business Continuity Planning
Information Systems Design
Category #2:
CCNA 3
Intrusion Detection & Firewall
Ethical Hacking
VMWare vSphere 5 Install & Config
CCNA 4
Wireless Networking & Security
VMWare View: Install & Config
VoIP/Convergence

I need 3 classes and at least one from each group.

Easy for me:

Project Management Tools
ITIL
Information Systems Design

and

CCNA 3
CCNA 4
Wireless Networking and Security

Done!

Maybe VoIP in lieu of Wireless but I find Wireless even more prevalent and useful for employment.

Comblues

 

[guidedbyechoes]

Easy for me:

Project Management Tools
ITIL
Information Systems Design

and

CCNA 3
CCNA 4
Wireless Networking and Security

Done!

Maybe VoIP in lieu of Wireless but I find Wireless even more prevalent and useful for employment.

Comblues

I might not have worded it correctly. 3 classes total. Two from A and one from B or vice versa.

My initial thoughts were info system design, ethical hack and firewall and intrusion detection

 

[Comblues]

In that case still easy:

CCNA 3 and CCNA 4 + ITIL for me.

Change Management Concepts are crucial in my world.

Comblues

 

[guidedbyechoes]

In that case still easy:

CCNA 3 and CCNA 4 + ITIL for me.

Change Management Concepts are crucial in my world.

Comblues

That actually makes a lot of sense. The difference between ccna and security for that school is two classes. If I get the ccna I have that knowledge and can get the other two classes either from the same institute or elsewhere. I just wish I could take those classes instead of psychology of human relations and microeconomics...

 

[guidedbyechoes]

Also what is your position on degree vs just certifications?

 

[Comblues]

Degrees versus Certifications:

1. Degrees - Everyone should get educated, but don't forget your learning while you are doing it. Brick and Mortar schools have a certain appeal to people - Non-Traditional Education has been going strong for over 20 years and has been becoming even more flexible every year. Lifelong learning is the key to success.

A 4-year degree becomes stagnant after a while and it is becomes a piece of paper at some point.

I hold an A.S. Degree and an A.A. Degree and have as many college credits as most P.H.d educated folks or more not counting CLEP, Military, Life Experiences, and of course Certifications.

A degree opens doors for people, I've heard. It never stopped me or even slowed me down as far as I can tell so far.

2. Certifications - I was told some years ago back in 1993-4 or so that I needed to put more emphasis on computers and I'd heard since the 1970's that computers were going to take over the world some day.

Certifications are keys to success these days.

It proves you are knowledgeable on subjects that are pretty much state of the art and you can "A la carte" your education to death and at the same time consolidate your education in an area you choose to specialize in.

Specialization = $$$ucce$$ and I'm hear to tell you it has worked just like that for my career.

I'm looking into Western Governor's University to complete a Bachelor's Degree just in case I need one down the road, but mostly because they accept certifications for the degree program at the Bachelor's and Master's level.

I'm a poster child for certifications. They have paid the bills so far.

Not going back.

Comblues

 

[guidedbyechoes]

Degrees versus Certifications:

1. Degrees - Everyone should get educated, but don't forget your learning while you are doing it. Brick and Mortar schools have a certain appeal to people - Non-Traditional Education has been going strong for over 20 years and has been becoming even more flexible every year. Lifelong learning is the key to success.

A 4-year degree becomes stagnant after a while and it is becomes a piece of paper at some point.

I hold an A.S. Degree and an A.A. Degree and have as many college credits as most P.H.d educated folks or more not counting CLEP, Military, Life Experiences, and of course Certifications.

A degree opens doors for people, I've heard. It never stopped me or even slowed me down as far as I can tell so far.

2. Certifications - I was told some years ago back in 1993-4 or so that I needed to put more emphasis on computers and I'd heard since the 1970's that computers were going to take over the world some day.

Certifications are keys to success these days.

It proves you are knowledgeable on subjects that are pretty much state of the art and you can "A la carte" your education to death and at the same time consolidate your education in an area you choose to specialize in.

Specialization = $$$ucce$$ and I'm hear to tell you it has worked just like that for my career.

I'm looking into Western Governor's University to complete a Bachelor's Degree just in case I need one down the road, but mostly because they accept certifications for the degree program at the Bachelor's and Master's level.

I'm a poster child for certifications. They have paid the bills so far.

Not going back.

Comblues

Yeah I was wondering I have heard from both sides differing opinions. Some say make sure you have a degree and that certifications are a waste of money after you get some experience. And others have said that if you know the material get certified and it will be far more beneficial than just an associates degree which I am pursuing.

 

[Railgun]

What is your job?


Technical - Most managers tend to believe they can teach the technical - not my gut feeling - I look for raw talent, capability and never say die attitude.

TCP/IP - Binary Math, Subnetting, etc.

Depends on the manager. Most managers within our company (on the IT side anyway) are technical in nature, so I would argue that they CAN teach as they're from that background. Needless to say, over time, the more senior techs should be teaching the junior guys so it's not really the manager's roll in that respect anyway.

I would argue binary math is as useful as token ring. While I appreciate the ability to do it, and when I was coming into it, had to learn it, it's really unnecessary now. There's not a single engineer that wouldn't defer to a calculator if necessary. And the need for that kind of math in your head on a day to day basis is far and few between.

What is your job?
Lead Network Engineer/Manager

If you were to hire someone, what are the most important things they should know?

There's a lot of leeway here. Depends on the roll for which they're applying. For entry level positions, I echo what Comblues mentioned. For more senior positions, multicast, in-depth knowledge of routing protocols (primarily OSPF, EIGRP, BGP), some detailed product knowledge across multiple vendors and the like are just some of the things. But, it's also going to be dependant on the orginization. Some may be a sole Cisco shop. Some Juniper. Some Dell or HP. It all depends.

Market saturation?

Not likely, however, I do think that there will be a shift soon. There are a lot of broad scope engineers out there and I think specialists will be more called for.

How long do you think that job will be viable? (I almost enrolled in a computer repair program)

So long as there's a need for communication, there will be a need for network engineers.

Positives?

Dynamic environments.

Good incentives (e.g. income).

Flexible work locations/schedules.

Teamwork.

Negatives?

Can be high stress.

Opinions. There are many solutions to problems, and for as many engineers you have in a room, you'll have as many answers. Those type A personalities will ensure that their idea is the one that's implemented. Arguments may ensue.

Hours. When those problems occur, they can sometimes be a huge PITA to figure out. Some are not so obvious. And when they fix themselves...

Suggested reading?


Cisco Press is a good start for Cisco (natch).

 

[Comblues]

One of the companies I worked for expected the Senior Staff Engineer role to train and mentor junior team members literally 50% of the time.

I did that for them and got awarded for it (Employee of the Month twice actually).

Some managers are techie and others are non-techie but all mentor to some degree in my experience.

Comblues

 

[m1ldslide1]

My experience:
Degree is definitely a piece of paper, but an extremely valuable piece of paper. If you have aspirations of moving into mid-level or higher management, having a BA or MA is a huge benefit. Don't let anyone tell you different. Entry-level tech jobs however, not so much.

Certifications are arguably more valuable than a traditional degree for that entry level job. I would argue that if you're trying to get started, a CCNA is probably a better foot in the door than a random BA.

The important thing at this point in your career is to get a start. At that point you'll start to get that critical experience, plus you will start meeting and talking with people and starting to learn what area you might prefer to specialize in. I agree with comblues that a specialization is going to be key at some point in your career.

My previous job was network architect and team manager at a large public university. I hired two engineers and two student workers while there, and here's what I looked for in a full-time network engineer:
1. Fundamental knowledge. I can teach a lot, but if you don't know stuff like ARP and some routing basics you would be better off somewhere else
2. Attitude. Just like in most professions, you have to be self-motivated, be humble, have a desire to work well with others, show accountability at all times, and be willing to share in the drudgery or dirty work.
3. Relevant experience and references
4. More sophisticated technical knowledge (routing/switching, security, TCP/IP, linux, etc)
5. Education / certifications

- As an aside, things like binary math were used almost daily in this job. However it was far more technically demanding than most engineering jobs due to the size of the network and the technologies deployed (plus we ran a local Internet exchange). Also if you plan to pursue higher-level certifications like a CCIE in routing/switching, being very fast at binary math without a calculator is important.

My current job is a pre-sales engineer, which is kind of tough to explain if you aren't in the industry.

Market saturation - I am in the Portland area, and I know that here and in Seattle nobody can find good talent to hire. There are lots of mediocre engineers out there, but the good ones are very hard to find and command good salaries.

I think the job will be viable for ten years, at least. There are a lot of new technologies that offer automation and orchestration that could reduce networking headcount to some degree, but its hard to predict how that will exactly pan out. I will say that if you can get some scripting and programming practice and experience you might be grateful someday.

Positives:
You get to build stuff! The lights start blinking! The charts and graphs prove your brilliance and manhood!
...plus networking tends to pay the most out of all IT jobs

Negatives:
It is very hard to get very good. (Sorta like the piano - easy to learn, very difficult to master).
On-call and outages (same with most IT jobs)
As a network admin, you get blamed for everything


Suggested reading:
Hell, start with networkworld.com if you want to start learning some basics about the industry. Sure Cisco Press is an important step, but if you're embryonic in your development I'm not sure how much good it will do you. Maybe find a nice entry-level networking book - like something written for the CCENT that will explain all of the basic concepts in plain english.

My $.02.

 

[guidedbyechoes]

My experience:
Degree is definitely a piece of paper, but an extremely valuable piece of paper. If you have aspirations of moving into mid-level or higher management, having a BA or MA is a huge benefit. Don't let anyone tell you different. Entry-level tech jobs however, not so much.

Certifications are arguably more valuable than a traditional degree for that entry level job. I would argue that if you're trying to get started, a CCNA is probably a better foot in the door than a random BA.

The important thing at this point in your career is to get a start. At that point you'll start to get that critical experience, plus you will start meeting and talking with people and starting to learn what area you might prefer to specialize in. I agree with comblues that a specialization is going to be key at some point in your career.

My previous job was network architect and team manager at a large public university. I hired two engineers and two student workers while there, and here's what I looked for in a full-time network engineer:
1. Fundamental knowledge. I can teach a lot, but if you don't know stuff like ARP and some routing basics you would be better off somewhere else
2. Attitude. Just like in most professions, you have to be self-motivated, be humble, have a desire to work well with others, show accountability at all times, and be willing to share in the drudgery or dirty work.
3. Relevant experience and references
4. More sophisticated technical knowledge (routing/switching, security, TCP/IP, linux, etc)
5. Education / certifications

- As an aside, things like binary math were used almost daily in this job. However it was far more technically demanding than most engineering jobs due to the size of the network and the technologies deployed (plus we ran a local Internet exchange). Also if you plan to pursue higher-level certifications like a CCIE in routing/switching, being very fast at binary math without a calculator is important.

My current job is a pre-sales engineer, which is kind of tough to explain if you aren't in the industry.

Market saturation - I am in the Portland area, and I know that here and in Seattle nobody can find good talent to hire. There are lots of mediocre engineers out there, but the good ones are very hard to find and command good salaries.

I think the job will be viable for ten years, at least. There are a lot of new technologies that offer automation and orchestration that could reduce networking headcount to some degree, but its hard to predict how that will exactly pan out. I will say that if you can get some scripting and programming practice and experience you might be grateful someday.

Positives:
You get to build stuff! The lights start blinking! The charts and graphs prove your brilliance and manhood!
...plus networking tends to pay the most out of all IT jobs

Negatives:
It is very hard to get very good. (Sorta like the piano - easy to learn, very difficult to master).
On-call and outages (same with most IT jobs)
As a network admin, you get blamed for everything


Suggested reading:
Hell, start with networkworld.com if you want to start learning some basics about the industry. Sure Cisco Press is an important step, but if you're embryonic in your development I'm not sure how much good it will do you. Maybe find a nice entry-level networking book - like something written for the CCENT that will explain all of the basic concepts in plain english.

My $.02.

I am ecstatic you showed up; I forgot to ask locations for everyone. I actually planned to move near portland after "finished" my education. It's simply an associates degree, not a BA. I'm fairly certain I want to specialize in security, but as comblues says how can you secure a system you don't fully understand.

I'm currently watching some tutorials on dream weaver as that is a program I need to learn fairly soon. I'm also playing the cisco binary math game, I'm not new to binary, just really bad at math.I made it to level 4 quite easily then it started getting really difficult. Had to stop and use the calc...

 

[JackMDS]

Looking for solid rules on this issue is sort of useless.

There is so many iteration of real circumstances out there that the is No solid rules.

One thing I know (40 years of experience in this business starting in the main frame era),

Some people here and there manage to get to some middle level without the "papers".

I did not met one that climb above the Middle without a "papers".

There are thousands that end up in their 30/40 (with family, kids, mortgage, etc.) complicating their life further by going to school the get the "papers" so that they can advance.

That said, if X-boxing time is more important than getting a "paper" I know that whatever I say is useless.

 

[guidedbyechoes]

Looking for solid rules on this issue is sort of useless.

There is so many iteration of real circumstances out there that the is No solid rules.

One thing I know (40 years of experience in this business starting in the main frame era),

Some people here and there manage to get to some middle level without the "papers".

I did not met one that climb above the Middle without a "papers".

There are thousands that end up in their 30/40 (with family, kids, mortgage, etc.) complicating their life further by going to school the get the "papers" so that they can advance.

That said, if X-boxing time is more important than getting a "paper" I know that whatever I say is useless.

I like video games fine and all that, but I would rather have a job where I can progress; rather than be stuck at the basic level, answering phone calls trying to explain how to copy and paste.

I already have a dead end job. The most exciting thing I did was install a mouse and printer because I was the only person that knew how. I clean for a living and it's really boring most of the time. I need goals to work towards, or I get incredibly depressed.

Of course I want a job where I make more money.... isn't that just human nature to meet one goal and try to reach another? I missed one of my closest friend's bachelor party just so I could have enough to pay for books and classes unless financial aid didn't come through.

I'm 28 now, I wish I would have known about networking before it was time to pick a career in highschool. I'm past my partying stage. I'm single. No children. My goal is to make enough to buy a car I can trust, move out of WI, buy a house somewhere nice(thinking OR), be able to make music ( I play a couple instruments and sing), and be able to travel to a couple places outside of the US(Fiji, Australia and Japan).

This is my second time attending higher education. Last time I barely got in financially, when I did materials were sold out and the math was over my head. I didn't do well. They are factoring that as my first semester even though I am changing my program. I have to get a B or better to continue to get aid, which I need because the only support my family can give me is moral.

So in short I don't have room for failure. I applied for admission and aid a year in advance. I have 2 grand saved back for any school related needs that may pop up. I can test out of some of my classes. My math is above the level I need. If I do well I can apply for academic forgiveness and not have the semester before my program change count. My main goal academically is to be THE person in my specialty that people want to hire; not just do well enough to get the piece of paper.

 

[Comblues]

guidedbyechos,

I started out with zilch for technical knowledge. Not enough credit to qualify for a $100.00 Best Buy Card and if it were not for Financial Aid (Pell Grant and Student Loans) I may not have been able to make some of the lemonade that happened as a result of never ever giving up - no matter the odds.

Student Loans, VA Work Study, G.I. Bill, and that thing called a Pell grant helped me along my first couple of years in college.

I used all of those to leverage a technical "internship" working for free at a Computer Repair Shop.

Step 1: Learn how to make coffee, clean the floors, and go buy parts.

Step 2. Learn how to build a custom PC and troubleshoot everything.

Step 3. Learn how to build a network from scratch.

Step 4. Learn how to get paid for items 1-3. Yep when I quit the guy hired me back to fix the coffee and be the gopher again at some $5.00 buck or so an hour - whatever minimum wage was at the time.

=====

Fast forward to today -> Daily 6-digit job offers, interviews, paid travel/training, paid SME opportunities with the likes of Cisco and CompTIA, etc. and all sorts of Beta Training Opps paid for by Cisco, IBM, and their premier learning partners - I guess just because. Free books to review and software/video training too, nice tools to get a first hand look at and the list goes on.

=======

If I had to do it over again and start today with the Internet being what it is:

Figure out what you want to do - take a college course or a certification track.

Read the outline.

Use Google and find out as much as you can about each subject.

Take notes and get as much "hands-on" as you can or learn to write up reports about what you are finding and learning.

When you finish, you'll have your own "custom degree" and you'll likely be getting paid to do it by somebody else besides you.

Translation = $0.00 worth of loans and you learned as much or more than the contents and confines of a 45-hour college course or a 40-hour tech training class.

Save your money and buy gear - books or equivalent knowledge is largely free somewhere on the Net unless it isn't or you just like paper, then read.

I love paper and I own bookshelves of techie books - so I'm not the best example of the above advice. I do own a few terabytes of tools and e-resources I use all the time to keep my skill ahead of the curve.

To each his or her own.

Good Luck!

Comblues

 

[guidedbyechoes]

guidedbyechos,

I started out with zilch for technical knowledge. Not enough credit to qualify for a $100.00 Best Buy Card and if it were not for Financial Aid (Pell Grant and Student Loans) I may not have been able to make some of the lemonade that happened as a result of never ever giving up - no matter the odds.

Student Loans, VA Work Study, G.I. Bill, and that thing called a Pell grant helped me along my first couple of years in college.

I used all of those to leverage a technical "internship" working for free at a Computer Repair Shop.

Step 1: Learn how to make coffee, clean the floors, and go buy parts.

Step 2. Learn how to build a custom PC and troubleshoot everything.

Step 3. Learn how to build a network from scratch.

Step 4. Learn how to get paid for items 1-3. Yep when I quit the guy hired me back to fix the coffee and be the gopher again at some $5.00 buck or so an hour - whatever minimum wage was at the time.

=====

Fast forward to today -> Daily 6-digit job offers, interviews, paid travel/training, paid SME opportunities with the likes of Cisco and CompTIA, etc. and all sorts of Beta Training Opps paid for by Cisco, IBM, and their premier learning partners - I guess just because. Free books to review and software/video training too, nice tools to get a first hand look at and the list goes on.

=======

If I had to do it over again and start today with the Internet being what it is:

Figure out what you want to do - take a college course or a certification track.

Read the outline.

Use Google and find out as much as you can about each subject.

Take notes and get as much "hands-on" as you can or learn to write up reports about what you are finding and learning.

When you finish, you'll have your own "custom degree" and you'll likely be getting paid to do it by somebody else besides you.

Translation = $0.00 worth of loans and you learned as much or more than the contents and confines of a 45-hour college course or a 40-hour tech training class.

Save your money and buy gear - books or equivalent knowledge is largely free somewhere on the Net unless it isn't or you just like paper, then read.

I love paper and I own bookshelves of techie books - so I'm not the best example of the above advice. I do own a few terabytes of tools and e-resources I use all the time to keep my skill ahead of the curve.

To each his or her own.

Good Luck!

Comblues

I have step one nailed.

Step 2 I am doing once I get my income tax money and that's why I initially joined this site. I have installed hardware and did upgrade on a computer before but never completely from the ground up. It won't be my first time using bios.

For step three, I'm not sure exactly how I can do that. My house hold only has 3 computers and they are all connected to the internet by router wired and wireless. We dont have a need for a printer but I have set up printer sharing before. Just never filesharing. One is a mac and I have extremely limited experience with those. It was pretty easy to figure out what I needed to do on it though.

 

[theevilsharpie]

I'm fairly certain I want to specialize in security, but as comblues says how can you secure a system you don't fully understand.

Thinking about the InfoSec field? Here's a quick preview:

Expectation:

Reality:

The folks that specialize in information security tend to maintain systems like IDS, antivirus, logging, perimeter firewalls (sometimes) among others. They also define the organization's security policies, and audit them to verify that they're being followed. Things such as server, network, or application hardening tend to be performed by specialists in those fields, and actual security research tends to be performed by highly skilled InfoSec professionals that have many years of experience.

If you decide to jump into the InfoSec field, you'll likely start at the bottom as an auditor, which is quite possibly the most mind-numbing job imaginable. Make sure that's what you want before specializing in security.

Also, given the trend toward consolidating systems and app hosting down to a handful of large cloud providers (public and private), combined with InfoSec becoming more and more intertwined with national security, it's a very real possibility that a government clearance might start becoming a requirement for any InfoSec job worth having. If you think getting a clearance would be difficult for you, strongly consider an alternate career path.

Otherwise, go for it