Networking Question - What To Get?

[LuNoTiCK]

Okay,

I have a quick networking question.

This is with an internet connection of 1gbps, so would like to keep it as fast as possible.

This will be going in an apartment complex. It's not big, only 1200 square feet, but there are other units which will probably interfere.

I was hoping to have multiple access points or switches, but not sure how to set it up.

I want one internet connection to be just the basic one which goes in and out, and then I want to use the second one through a VPN.

The one through the VPN can be wired, or wireless, whatever, primarily for reliability. I imagine the VPN will slow down, so I am not sure I need that to be wired (although wired does have reliability).

What should be the primary setup? The ISP gives me a router, but I do not have to use it.

I imagine with wireless, I will not get the full speeds, so some will be wired to get me speeds.

I do not mind spending a little money, and buying good hardware.

 

[razel]

Lots of generalities and not a quick question. Everyone wants everything and for good reasons. I'd start at the beginning...​

'I want one internet connection to be just the basic one which goes in and out, and then I want to use the second one through a VPN.'

You want two Internet connections? Separating the PCs/laptops/devices you want in both is going to be the difficult part. ASUS is the only consumer router I know of that allows dual Internet last time I checked. Could be more now. If you are VPN'ing there's no need for a separate Internet unless you have a specific need to do so.

 

[LuNoTiCK]

Sorry,

I was not the most clear.

I want to have some computers use the connection through a VPN, and some computers use a connection directly to a router without a VPN.

 

[mnewsham]

Sounds like you just want a router that can set up VLANs.

You'll have one VLAN without the VPN, the other VLAN with the VPN.

VLAN support generally isn't a feature found on consumer level routers though, so you're left looking at business level gear, or building your own with PFsense or Sophos UTM or similar. $500+


This is all fairly advanced networking however and I wouldn't recommend you attempt to set this up unless you've done your research or are prepared to spend hours and hours reading up on how to properly configure your home network yourself.

 

[MrBill10]

Sounds like you just want a router that can set up VLANs.

or a managed switch. But, same as VLANs on a router, the learning curve can be steep, although the price comes down to <$100.

 

[LuNoTiCK]

I don't mind spending the time learning, as I find it all to be important, and I also don't mind spending a bit of money to get a piece of equipment that does exactly what I want.

What is most important though is that once it's set up, it works problem free.

I would like hardware that is capable though, it is a pretty fast internet connection.

 

[mxnerd]

Usually VPN service providers will have their own VPN software client. Juts install their clients (Windows, MacOS, Android, iOS, etc.) on the machines that you want to have VPN and your are done. Some of the VPN providers allow up to 5 current connections.

You don't need a specific router to use VPN and you don't need 2 internet connections.

1200 square feet house is not big, one router close to the middle should cover it well.

ASUS/Netgear have some good routers.

 

[LuNoTiCK]

I know, but I don't want to limit it to software.

What if I want to hook up XYZ piece of equipment? I do not want it limited to using windows / mac / linux software is my only issue.

Usually VPN service providers will have their own VPN software client. Juts install their clients (Windows, MacOS, Android, iOS, etc.) on the machines that you want to have VPN and your are done. Some of the VPN providers allow up to 5 current connections.

You don't need a specific router to use VPN and you don't need 2 internet connections.

1200 square feet house is not big, one router close to the middle should cover it well.

ASUS/Netgear have some good routers.

 

[mxnerd]

Buy a router that supports OpenVPN then. Probably a DD-WRT compatible one so you can flash the firmware. Put it in AP mode and uplink one of its LAN port to the router that ISP gave you.

The devices that don't need VPN connect directly to the ISP router. The devices that you need VPN but don't want to install software clients individually, connect them to the the router that supports OpenVPN in AP mode. Use different SSID so you know which is which.

Never done this before, but I think it should work.

 

[razel]

I don't mind spending the time learning, as I find it all to be important, and I also don't mind spending a bit of money to get a piece of equipment that does exactly what I want.

What is most important though is that once it's set up, it works problem free.

I like that attitude! I highly recommend the Linksys WRT-AC1900ACS. It's often ~$100 refurb at through Linksys' website. However it will allow you to experiment with DD-WRT officially and the AWESOME near enterprise level Untangle firmware. If not check out any of the routers supported by ASUS Merlin.

 

[mxnerd]

Seems Linksys WRT-AC1900ACS only has OpenVPN server if using stock firmware, it does not have OpenVPN client built-in. Can't connect to VPN services. Needs to flash to DD-WRT.

 

[razel]

Yes, it is designed for DD-WRT. I wouldn't buy it for stock firmware. You buy it to use DD-WRT, Untangle or whatever else.

 

[LuNoTiCK]

I purchased the router, any firmware recommendations, you seem to recommend Untangle, or is this all personal preference?

Thanks!

 

[VirtualLarry]

What about the WRT3200ACM router? I was looking at that, due to its 1.8Ghz dual-core ARM CPU, which seemed plenty powerful for a consumer router. But I like to run Tomato, and I haven't seen it ported to that router yet. (I think that there is now a beta of DD-WRT, as mentioned by their site.)

You can get the WRT3200ACM on ebay for $119.99 direct from Linksys, as a refurb. Seemed like a lot of router for the money.

 

[sdifox]

What about the WRT3200ACM router? I was looking at that, due to its 1.8Ghz dual-core ARM CPU, which seemed plenty powerful for a consumer router. But I like to run Tomato, and I haven't seen it ported to that router yet. (I think that there is now a beta of DD-WRT, as mentioned by their site.)

You can get the WRT3200ACM on ebay for $119.99 direct from Linksys, as a refurb. Seemed like a lot of router for the money.

Don't trust refurbs. Most likely they were never fixed.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Don't trust refurbs. Most likely they were never fixed.

Eh? Most likely, unless there is a serious design defect in that model line (which in that case, you should avoid them), then they were returned for less-than-serious reasons, including, people not being able to figure out the darn menu systems, or flashed it with a bad firmware, so the factory had to flash it back, or the power brick died.

I've had pretty-much stellar luck, buying factory-refurbished networking gear, from Netgear, Linksys-Cisco (pre-belkin), and Asus. My most recent networking purchases, a pair of AC68R units from Newegg on ebay, looked more "used" than refurbished, and on one of them, the power brick died after a few minutes of operation. That's the worst that I've ever had it. My Netgear and Cisco (factory) refurbs, came with what appeared to be "new" power-bricks.
I don't know if the AC68R units from Newegg were in fact "factory" refurbs. They may have just been used units returned to Newegg. In that case, I would probably NOT recommend.

These range from WRN834B(v2?) units, running DD-WRT, to the slightly-smaller and newer WNR2000v2 units, then to the Cisco E2500v1 dual-band units, running Tomato, then on to a (new, they are cheap enough) Asus RT-N12/D1 unit, running Tomato, with a Engenius AC1200 gigabit AP, to a (now several) Asus AC68R units, running Tomato with a Multi-WAN feature. (Newer factory firmware for the AC68R also support multi-WAN.)

 

[sdifox]

Eh? Most likely, unless there is a serious design defect in that model line (which in that case, you should avoid them), then they were returned for less-than-serious reasons, including, people not being able to figure out the darn menu systems, or flashed it with a bad firmware, so the factory had to flash it back, or the power brick died.

I've had pretty-much stellar luck, buying factory-refurbished networking gear, from Netgear, Linksys-Cisco (pre-belkin), and Asus. My most recent networking purchases, a pair of AC68R units from Newegg on ebay, looked more "used" than refurbished, and on one of them, the power brick died after a few minutes of operation. That's the worst that I've ever had it. My Netgear and Cisco (factory) refurbs, came with what appeared to be "new" power-bricks.
I don't know if the AC68R units from Newegg were in fact "factory" refurbs. They may have just been used units returned to Newegg. In that case, I would probably NOT recommend.

These range from WRN834B(v2?) units, running DD-WRT, to the slightly-smaller and newer WNR2000v2 units, then to the Cisco E2500v1 dual-band units, running Tomato, then on to a (new, they are cheap enough) Asus RT-N12/D1 unit, running Tomato, with a Engenius AC1200 gigabit AP, to a (now several) Asus AC68R units, running Tomato with a Multi-WAN feature. (Newer factory firmware for the AC68R also support multi-WAN.)

They run through standard test set and if it passes it is packed up again. There is no money in fixing it.

 

[VirtualLarry]

They run through standard test set and if it passes it is packed up again. There is no money in fixing it.

I never said that they "fixed" anything on them. I said that, chances are, there was really nothing wrong with them, just needed a firmware flash, or in rare occasions, a fresh power brick.

And if it passes a "standard test", ... then what's wrong, again, with buying refurbs?

 

[sdifox]

I never said that they "fixed" anything on them. I said that, chances are, there was really nothing wrong with them, just needed a firmware flash, or in rare occasions, a fresh power brick.

And if it passes a "standard test", ... then what's wrong, again, with buying refurbs?

Problematic routers tend to exhibit issues after you run them for a while. They are not spending the time to diagnose it. Easier to just run a minimal test, it passes, someone else's problem.

 

[VirtualLarry]

And... ? You can get problematic routers, in "new" packages too. I would almost prefer the pre-tested ones, that way the outliers are removed from the pool, before they get into my hands.

I've not run into any truly "problematic" refurb routers, although occasionally, I get a router with slightly less signal strength than their identical brethren from the lot I purchased.

I would fathom a guess that a very good portion of RMA returns, are from people that have issues, and don't know or care to spend enough time to download updated firmware and install it, or take a risk and flash third-party firmware.

 

[sdifox]

And... ? You can get problematic routers, in "new" packages too. I would almost prefer the pre-tested ones, that way the outliers are removed from the pool, before they get into my hands.

I've not run into any truly "problematic" refurb routers, although occasionally, I get a router with slightly less signal strength than their identical brethren from the lot I purchased.

I would fathom a guess that a very good portion of RMA returns, are from people that have issues, and don't know or care to spend enough time to download updated firmware and install it, or take a risk and flash third-party firmware.

Solder whiskering is the most likely problem for an actual defective router, as oposed to crappy firmware, incorrect flashing. Unfortunately the problem is often intermittent, sometime only manifesting after extensive use. Probably because of thermal expansion, making the wiskers actually connect to something.

RoHs made the probkem worse since pure tin wisker is much longer than tin-lead ones.
https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/app-notes/index.mvp/id/5250

 

[VirtualLarry]

*shrug*. Seems kind of obscure, and is this problem really that widespread, that it would cause the number of refurb stock units, versus just user error or firmware glitches?

To say nothing of the "buy and try" approach to consumer wireless, which generally means, you buy a router (at retail), and if it doesn't provide the coverage or speed you need, for your specific space and application, then you return it, and try again.

That generates a fairly substantial number of routers, I would think, that are not per-se actually "defective", but cannot be sold as new any more.

I'm fairly confident in the refurb wireless networking gear that I've purchased.

If you are scared of "tin whiskers", then I guess you might not want to try refurbs...

 

[sdifox]

*shrug*. Seems kind of obscure, and is this problem really that widespread, that it would cause the number of refurb stock units, versus just user error or firmware glitches?

To say nothing of the "buy and try" approach to consumer wireless, which generally means, you buy a router (at retail), and if it doesn't provide the coverage or speed you need, for your specific space and application, then you return it, and try again.

That generates a fairly substantial number of routers, I would think, that are not per-se actually "defective", but cannot be sold as new any more.

I'm fairly confident in the refurb wireless networking gear that I've purchased.

If you are scared of "tin whiskers", then I guess you might not want to try refurbs...

Tin wisker is a long standing problem, made worse by rohs.

Then you have the made crappy things to make it even murkier.

 

[mxnerd]

Refurbished not necessary is refurbished, it could be just returned by customer due to various reasons.

If the customer does not return everything in the package, retailer very likely will return the product back to vendor. Vendor then needs to repackage returned product as open box or refurbished.

IIRC, products that return to vendor can't be sold as new, even if it's just open box, vendor can only sell it as used or refurbished in the U.S.

Just like VL said, it could be just that the customer does not know how to set it up and actually the product is not defective.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, I'm sure that "Tin Whiskers" is probably a real thing, but to suggest that it is THE reason for the large number of refurbished routers available, strikes me as a kind of paranoia.

If the problems with tin whiskers were as widespread as you suggest, we should see similar problems in ALL mass-mfg'ed computer equipment, made with that kind of solder, and we aren't, at least not to the levels that refurbed networking gear might indicate.

For example, I don't see huge qtys of refurbed motherboards.