I await your evidence.The BLM changed its mind and forbade cattle ranching on that land. That's why all the others quit.
Fern
Some, not all, of these folks went well beyond exercising their 1st and 2nd amendment rights and were interfering with a lawful government activity.
the title companies and the recorder's office? what do you think they do?
let's say i buy the land at the auction when his lien is foreclosed. i then go out there and tell him it's mine. what do you think he does?
the guy didn't respond to paper.
Why would anyone trust your opinion in regards to a right being exceeded, when it is clear that you don't understand the very basic principals and concepts of those rights?
That was rhetorical, it doesn't really matter how you feel personally.
There is a reason you can predict who will fumble around trying to put together a coherent argument on this issue. The anti-2A crowd is so scared of the cowboys with weapons, that they would rather support them getting mowed down then let cattle eat some shrubs for a couple more days.
Statistically there will be those beta males who gravitate towards a central master. They used to be called Tories.
I await your evidence.
I have been following the news on the proposed roundup of Cliven Bundys cattle that are grazing illegally on federal lands in Gold Butte managed on behalf of the public by the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service.
I am familiar with the situation, as I served as superintendent of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area for the National Park Service from 1987 to 2000. In 1993, we reduced the number of cows that could be grazed on the Bunkerville allotment to 150 because of the emergency listing of the desert tortoise as an endangered species.
Because Bundy refused to remove his cattle to meet the 150 level and ignored repeated requests to do so, his permit was canceled in 1994 and the allotment was closed to grazing.
Some, not all, of these folks went well beyond exercising their 1st and 2nd amendment rights and were interfering with a lawful government activity.
Yeah and the Confederacy lost. Get over it.Unjust laws are not to be followed
We fought a war over this shit.
Unjust laws are not to be followed
We fought a war over this shit.
You have no clue what this is about, do you?
For someone like yourself who talks a bunch in this thread you sure don't bother with any research or facts:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...spute-as-blm-exploiting-fracking-rights.3439/
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/06/rancher-land-dispute-bully-not-hero/
Fern
Meanwhile back to the other ranchers...?For someone like yourself who talks a bunch in this thread you sure don't bother with any research or facts:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...spute-as-blm-exploiting-fracking-rights.3439/
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/06/rancher-land-dispute-bully-not-hero/
Fern
Rancher in land dispute is a bully, not a hero
I have been following the news on the proposed roundup of Cliven Bundys cattle that are grazing illegally on federal lands in Gold Butte managed on behalf of the public by the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service.
I am familiar with the situation, as I served as superintendent of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area for the National Park Service from 1987 to 2000. In 1993, we reduced the number of cows that could be grazed on the Bunkerville allotment to 150 because of the emergency listing of the desert tortoise as an endangered species.
Because Bundy refused to remove his cattle to meet the 150 level and ignored repeated requests to do so, his permit was canceled in 1994 and the allotment was closed to grazing.
As the news coverage has reported, Bundy continues to graze his cattle and has refused to pay the BLM a grazing fee. The figure he owes the government exceeds $300,000. The estimate of cattle being grazed illegally since 1994 on the old Bunkerville allotment have ranged from 550 to more than 900.
It is unfathomable to me that 20 years after the Bunkerville allotment was canceled in 1994, we are still wrestling with getting his cattle off the range. And there were issues of overgrazing that allotment before 1994. It is my opinion that the BLM and the Park Service have done everything possible administratively to try to resolve the issue amicably. In addition, there are two federal court rulings upholding the agencies position, and the most recent ruling demanded Bundy not physically interfere with any seizure or impoundment operation.
Bundy is a bully who has used his threat of a range war and to do whatever it takes to stop the government from impounding his cattle to scare public officials.
The implications are that he would resort to a gunbattle. And who wants to see another Waco? I was one of those public officials who were told to back off at one point because of concern for violence.
What Bundy is doing is a criminal act, and he should be accountable for his actions rather than be held up as a hero fighting the federal government.
Most of the grazing permit holders on public land are good stewards and law-abiding citizens, and Bundy is doing them a disservice with his actions. He is a perfect example of someone who publicly states that he abhors the federal government but who relies on it for his welfare.
He is grazing free on the publics land to the detriment of the environment and the honest taxpayers who support his welfare lifestyle.
What if other people decide that they are also going to do whatever they want on federal land regardless of the law and stake claims to that right? A civil society has to have some rules and laws or we would have total chaos.
Bundy has no guaranteed rights on federal land. He only has rights to what he owns privately, yet when you hear him talk, he considers that he has some intergenerational rights to use more than 158,000 acres as he sees fit. And this is some of the most beautiful and important public land in America. What a deal. Wouldnt any of us like to have such rights?
I am hopeful that the BLM and the Park Service stand strong and conduct the roundup as needed and not be bullied by someone who seems inclined to continue to break the law and brag about it as the last cowboy standing. What a warped self-perception and view of his contribution to humanity.
Grazing and turtles, right? :biggrin: Thank you for such an intelligent response. All that is left here is a couple drones who don't post substance. A Wikipedia link and a self-assumed snarky comment are what pass as debate.
I'll throw out a little bone as to some of the stuff that youll never see on MSNBCNNOreilly, but is far from UFO chasing infotainmentwars.
I'm fairly certain you have no idea what patch this agent was wearing on Saturday at the height of the tension, but it is very revealing. You never know who will actually follow through with killing protesting Americans should the order be given, which it almost was.
As the titled owner of the land, the federal government is rightfully entitled to pursue the highest and best use.
That unless otherwise provided for by law, the Secretary may permit Federal departments and agencies to use, occupy, and develop public lands only through rights-of-way under section 507 of this Act, withdrawals under section 204 of this Act, and, where the proposed use and development are similar or closely related to the programs of the Secretary for the public lands involved, cooperative agreements under subsection (b) of section 307 of this Act: Provided further, That nothing in this Act shall be construed as authorizing the Secretary concerned to require Federal permits to hunt and fish on public lands or on lands in the National Forest System and adjacent waters or as enlarging or diminishing the responsibility and authority of the States for management of fish and resident wildlife
Grazing and turtles, right? :biggrin: Thank you for such an intelligent response. All that is left here is a couple drones who don't post substance. A Wikipedia link and a self-assumed snarky comment are what pass as debate.
I'll throw out a little bone as to some of the stuff that youll never see on MSNBCNNOreilly, but is far from UFO chasing infotainmentwars.
I'm fairly certain you have no idea what patch this agent was wearing on Saturday at the height of the tension, but it is very revealing. You never know who will actually follow through with killing protesting Americans should the order be given, which it almost was.
As the titled owner of the land, the federal government is rightfully entitled to pursue the highest and best use.
Are you even American? "Highest and best use?" There are people that really believe the feds can do whatever they deem necessary on public land?
FEDERAL LAND POLICY AND
MANAGEMENT ACT OF 1976
http://www.blm.gov/flpma/FLPMA.pdf
What is the big deal of a US Park Police patch?
I don't agree. You seem to assume no one else has any rights.
I also don't agree that converting the land from a cattle ranch to a turtle ranch is "the highest and best use".
I also get the feeling that many of you believe the govt must do what's in its best interest and that we must unquestioningly yield to it, while I believe it should do what is in our best interest.
Fern
Bundy has won this round and it's good to see the BLM back off. The government has stolen land before and will try again. It's interesting how people defend the government doing what they did but don't want to do anything about welfare fraud and arrest them or cut spending.
Using Park Police to suppress a rebellion seems like a big deal in terms of incompetence.
Can you be more specific?