Nevada Ranch Armed Standoff - Everyone vs The Feds

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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
The irony of all of this. Its likely multiple militia members will face charges. Pending trial they will lose the right to carry firearms. If they are convicted, they will be barred from every carrying again.

They didn't get what they wanted(a waco/ruby ridge incident) and now several are likely going to lose their privilege to have guns period. Double fail on their part.

Unless it can be proven that they were actually pointing/aiming a firearm at an federal agent/official or local police officers there's no violation of the law.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
Unless it can be proven that they were actually pointing/aiming a firearm at an federal agent/official or local police officers there's no violation of the law.
Do they have the right to point the weapon and any person in a threatening manner.

There are pictures of people with weapons pointing out through protective shields on roadways.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,460
988
126
Unless it can be proven that they were actually pointing/aiming a firearm at an federal agent/official or local police officers there's no violation of the law.

For felonies and what can get their guns taken yes. However, there are thousands of photos and hundreds of hours of video footage.

As for no violation of the law. There were plenty of militia members(and others) that interfered with federal law enforcement officers carrying out their official duties. Misdemeanor, but violation of the no less. Will they file charges on these grounds? Probably not. The federal court doesn't have the time to hear all the cases.

Oh and those currently setting up check points and forcing people to stop are 100% breaking the law and should be arrested.
 
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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Do they have the right to point the weapon and any person in a threatening manner.

There are pictures of people with weapons pointing out through protective shields on roadways.

I think they will have to prove that the people were actually pointing the gun directly (not in the general vicinity) at someone in a threatening manner.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
Don't think you need crosshair image to prove.



This is the picture that I was thinking about. If a LEO is near the base of that bridge support (middle of the drainage channel); that is evidence of pointing a fire arm.

Acts of stupidity have consequences
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Don't think you need crosshair image to prove.


Ok, who is he pointing the gun at? Or is he looking through his scope (change that, looking down the barrel) to see whats going on?

Also please note that all the photos of him show his finger is not where near the trigger, sorta hard to prove intent.

 
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Sep 7, 2009
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And how do you think the patriots will reach to that, if they amassed a small army in 24 hours over a land-use issue, enough to force the feds to stand down?

They're untouchable. You modern progressives hate it, but get used to it.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,093
1,538
126
Ok, who is he pointing the gun at? Or is he looking through his scope to see whats going on?

Also please note that all the photos of him show his finger is not where near the trigger, sorta hard to prove intent.

So would you be cool if instead of federal law enforcement officers he was doing the same thing but pointing at an elementary school? Would you think there no cause for alarm and no charges that should be filed then?
 
Feb 10, 2000
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And how do you think the patriots will reach to that, if they amassed a small army in 24 hours over a land-use issue, enough to force the feds to stand down?

They're untouchable. You modern progressives hate it, but get used to it.

So in your mind it's "patriotic" to point guns at federal employees. I guess that's at least consistent with your view that a farmer who denies the existence of the federal government, while waving a flag and carrying around a copy of the Constitution, is a "patriot." It appears that you define "patriot" as "confused, armed white guy," which I suppose fits well with your view that "older white businessmen" with guns are America's greatest heroes. Meanwhile, the idea of the government enforcing well-established law is, to you, a "modern progressive" idea.

If what you're saying is that you endorse a world in which idiots with weapons can, through a show of force, obstruct the government from enforcing well-established laws, then you are fundamentally embracing terrorism against the United States. I know you pride yourself in saying outrageous things, but on this topic (which you have repeatedly stated you don't fully understand), you have long since gone Full Retard.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,093
1,538
126
And how do you think the patriots will reach to that, if they amassed a small army in 24 hours over a land-use issue, enough to force the feds to stand down?

They're untouchable. You modern progressives hate it, but get used to it.
You clearly misunderstand what a patriot is. Patriots do not use terroristic threats or use women as human shields. These people were cowards, terrorists, and pieces of shit.
So, your kind of people
Here we go with the strawman arguments.

You're so willing to make excuses like "his finger wasn't on the trigger" and "we don't KNOW he was pointing at anyone in specific". Well what if it was a group of kids, I'm sure you'd be way less willing to make the same excuses and a group of kids would be just as justified as this situation, which is to say it wouldn't be justified at all.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
Ok, who is he pointing the gun at? Or is he looking through his scope (change that, looking down the barrel) to see whats going on?

Also please note that all the photos of him show his finger is not where near the trigger, sorta hard to prove intent.


Really? Pointing a gun at someone is intent you want to shoot that person. If you want to see what is going on, you don't look down the sights of a gun, that is common fucking sense.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
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Ok, who is he pointing the gun at? Or is he looking through his scope (change that, looking down the barrel) to see whats going on?

Also please note that all the photos of him show his finger is not where near the trigger, sorta hard to prove intent.


His rifle has no scope, thus eliminating the possibility that he was using the weapon as a visual aid - he was looking down iron sights, presumably at a target. How could iron sights assist him in seeing anything below him for any purpose other than targeting? I would also dispute whether it's fair to say "his finger was nowhere near the trigger," since his right hand was on the rifle's grip, and essentially in a ready-to-fire position. The gun was loaded, though there is no way to be certain whether a round was chambered and, while I am no AK expert, I don't think it's possible to tell from the left side whether the safety was on.

Are you saying you wouldn't find this threatening if you were in his crosshairs? Assault is not a specific-intent crime - all that is required is that he creates a justified fear in his victim that the victim might be shot. If I had been standing in the area below him and saw an AK barrel peeking through the Jersey barriers, I know I would feel threatened.

I agree with your other point, however - it is unclear whether he is pointing the gun at any individual, based on that photo alone. There may well be other evidence related to this but I am not aware of any.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,012
49,794
136
Ok, who is he pointing the gun at? Or is he looking through his scope (change that, looking down the barrel) to see whats going on?

Also please note that all the photos of him show his finger is not where near the trigger, sorta hard to prove intent.


I have to say that if I were on the other end of someone doing that I would feel pretty threatened.

This is yet another huge problem with these clowns. They can't even use all the guns they have amassed in a responsible manner.
 

Stewox

Senior member
Dec 10, 2013
528
0
0
Everyones pounding on this image is totally expected, sheeples don't understand that humans don't have jaws teeth and claws, they use a more sophisticated tool than a piece of stick to protect them selfs.

And it's always context. Context is everything. This image is a perfect media weapon to take some issue out of context and present it in a totally different sense.

If those BLM Contractors (who were not law enforcement, who were not soldiers, who were CONTRACTORS for a Agency without LAW-ENFORCEMENT powers) would have fired their weapons, he would have backed up the activists, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, and the man on the bridge was a reaction, he would have never fired the first shot, if these people were really terrorists they would run around cutting heads and drinking blood, that's what Al-Kaida does, and Al-kaida receives US and NATO ammunition on a weekly basis, some of it is saudi, israeli and the rest of the globalist gang.

Al-Kaida With US TOW Anti-Tank Missile - There's no way they would just get that.

http://patdollard.com/2014/05/new-v...rian-rebels-have-u-s-made-anti-tank-missiles/

http://www.exposingtruth.com/video-us-supplies-al-qaeda-terrorists-syria-tow-anti-tank-weapons/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu3bvGvInmw

“Our military sources report that Syrian tank armor is not thick enough to withstand the BGM-71 TOW rockets. To save his tanks, Assad has shifted the brunt of his anti-rebel operation to heavy air force bombardments, which claim a heavy toll among civilians,” Debkafile continued. “Washington is therefore confronted with its next decision about whether to give the rebels sophisticated anti-aircraft weapons as well.”
US Taxpayer money at work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XPQs9hE0OQ
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,887
25,412
136
Everyones pounding on this image is totally expected, sheeples don't understand that humans don't have jaws teeth and claws, they use a more sophisticated tool than a piece of stick to protect them selfs.

And it's always context. Context is everything. This image is a perfect media weapon to take some issue out of context and present it in a totally different sense.

If those BLM Contractors (who were not law enforcement, who were not soldiers, who were CONTRACTORS for a Agency without LAW-ENFORCEMENT powers) would have fired their weapons, he would have backed up the activists, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, and the man on the bridge was a reaction, he would have never fired the first shot, if these people were really terrorists they would run around cutting heads and drinking blood, that's what Al-Kaida does, and Al-kaida receives US and NATO ammunition on a weekly basis, some of it is saudi, israeli and the rest of the globalist gang.

Have you changed meds recently? Your posts are becoming less coherent.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
I have to say that if I were on the other end of someone doing that I would feel pretty threatened.

This is yet another huge problem with these clowns. They can't even use all the guns they have amassed in a responsible manner.

Guess he didn't get to play army when he was growing up.
 

Cozarkian

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,352
95
91
Assault is not a specific-intent crime - all that is required is that he creates a justified fear in his victim that the victim might be shot.

It is in Nevada.

Nevada Revised Statutes said:
(a) “Assault” means:
(1) Unlawfully attempting to use physical force against another person; or
(2) Intentionally placing another person in reasonable apprehension of immediate bodily harm.

This photo qualifies as assault only if he intended for the feds below to be aware that he was pointing a gun in their direction. The next question is whether this whacko had a reasonable belief that the Feds might take unlawful violent action and that he needed to be ready to use the gun for defense of others.

This guy is probably crazy, definitely stupid, and should not be pointing a gun at the officers below, but not all stupid actions are crimes.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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It is in Nevada.

This photo qualifies as assault only if he intended for the feds below to be aware that he was pointing a gun in their direction. The next question is whether this whacko had a reasonable belief that the Feds might take unlawful violent action and that he needed to be ready to use the gun for defense of others.

This guy is probably crazy, definitely stupid, and should not be pointing a gun at the officers below, but not all stupid actions are crimes.

The question is how the case law in NV interprets those provisions. It would be very surprising to me if pointing a gun at a person from a distance (if that's what he did) does not constitute criminal assault under Nevada law, whether or not the person was aware the gun was pointed.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,093
1,538
126
It is in Nevada.



This photo qualifies as assault only if he intended for the feds below to be aware that he was pointing a gun in their direction. The next question is whether this whacko had a reasonable belief that the Feds might take unlawful violent action and that he needed to be ready to use the gun for defense of others.

This guy is probably crazy, definitely stupid, and should not be pointing a gun at the officers below, but not all stupid actions are crimes.

Except that since the BLM is a federal agency this would be based on federal definition, not state. And I think in general it is illegal to aim a firearm at a federal officer enacting a legal warrant. Maybe I'm wrong on that though.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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Except that since the BLM is a federal agency this would be based on federal definition, not state. And I think in general it is illegal to aim a firearm at a federal officer enacting a legal warrant. Maybe I'm wrong on that though.

Certainly there are federal laws specific to crimes against federal employees which could apply here, and would give jurisdiction to the federal courts over this potential crime. Here is what I believe is the appropriate statute (from http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/111 ):

(a) In General.— Whoever—

(1) forcibly assaults, resists, opposes, impedes, intimidates, or interferes with any person designated in section 1114 of this title while engaged in or on account of the performance of official duties; or

(2) forcibly assaults or intimidates any person who formerly served as a person designated in section 1114 on account of the performance of official duties during such person’s term of service,

shall, where the acts in violation of this section constitute only simple assault, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both, and where such acts involve physical contact with the victim of that assault or the intent to commit another felony, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both.

(b) Enhanced Penalty.— Whoever, in the commission of any acts described in subsection (a), uses a deadly or dangerous weapon (including a weapon intended to cause death or danger but that fails to do so by reason of a defective component) or inflicts bodily injury, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

Accordingly, under the facts of this case, it would appear that pointing a gun at a federal officer in the performance of his duties in an effort to "assault, resist, oppose, impede, intimidate, or interfere with" him would be a felony punishable by up to 20 years in prison.

Off the top of my head I am not sure whether the fact that this is BLM land would give the federal government jurisdiction over a crime committed there that did not arise under federal law - I believe in Nevada the state and federal governments have concurrent jurisdiction but I am not certain of that.
 
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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
His rifle has no scope, thus eliminating the possibility that he was using the weapon as a visual aid - he was looking down iron sights, presumably at a target. How could iron sights assist him in seeing anything below him for any purpose other than targeting? I would also dispute whether it's fair to say "his finger was nowhere near the trigger," since his right hand was on the rifle's grip, and essentially in a ready-to-fire position. The gun was loaded, though there is no way to be certain whether a round was chambered and, while I am no AK expert, I don't think it's possible to tell from the left side whether the safety was on.

Are you saying you wouldn't find this threatening if you were in his crosshairs? Assault is not a specific-intent crime - all that is required is that he creates a justified fear in his victim that the victim might be shot. If I had been standing in the area below him and saw an AK barrel peeking through the Jersey barriers, I know I would feel threatened.

I agree with your other point, however - it is unclear whether he is pointing the gun at any individual, based on that photo alone. There may well be other evidence related to this but I am not aware of any.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Even though he's doing something I would never do unless there's evidence (ie other photographs/angles that shows proof) that shows beyond a reasonable doubt that he was aiming at an agent or officer it going to be hard to meet the federal definition for assault with a deadly weapon as he has not made any threats (which include verbal threats) other than pointing a gun in their general direction.
 
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