Nevada Ranch Armed Standoff - Everyone vs The Feds

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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,589
29,292
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For one, I don't feel like the federal government has any right to land within state boundaries that is not a protected forest or other natural area.

Secondly, really, all that matters is that bundy feels like it's unjust. If he's able to get that massive number of people to back him then good for him, he has a moral and social right to do so.


Again, our last revolution was started over what people perceived to be an unjust law. Just like the last one, there were people who were against these unjust laws.
So people can stop following the law anytime they feel like it?
 
Sep 7, 2009
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So people can stop following the law anytime they feel like it?


If you can gain enough support of armed citizens to cause the federal government to back down then absolutely.


Why do you think the UK and modern progressive hate armed citizens ?? It's because it prevents them from enforcing unjust laws.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,589
29,292
136
If you can gain enough support of armed citizens to cause the federal government to back down then absolutely.


Why do you think the UK and modern progressive hate armed citizens ?? It's because it prevents them from enforcing unjust laws.
So might makes right? This is your philosophy for life? If the government wiped these protesters out, you would side with the government?
 
Sep 7, 2009
12,960
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So might makes right? This is your philosophy for life? If the government wiped these protesters out, you would side with the government?


While I might not agree with a particular cause, I support citizen's right to support causes.

This is the biggest issue with modern progressives. You all know in your soft hearts what is right, and everyone should support what you feel.

The reality is we should support people's right to protest etc against things they feel are unfair.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
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So are you upset that the protestors weren't killed? It seems many leftists would have preferred violence.

No one is saying that. No one is saying anything like that. What's being said is that he cannot just decide he dislikes or disagrees with a law and ignore it without there being consequences. Try joining the conversation happening instead of the one going on in your head between the different voices.
 
Apr 27, 2012
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No one is saying that. No one is saying anything like that. What's being said is that he cannot just decide he dislikes or disagrees with a law and ignore it without there being consequences. Try joining the conversation happening instead of the one going on in your head between the different voices.

Are you sure?

The rebels are not Americans. They've basically seceded. It's time to pacify them. They don't even favor American people. They're basically far-right white supremacist militia types.

Obama should consider stopping being all PC about this and go full Sherman on them and raze the entire ranch. Then make it a nuclear waste deposit. Or use it as a missile test site. Or an Ebola experiment site. In any case, this leaching thug pumping out 14 children and stealing from hardworking Americans needs to be stopped and provided social services to re-assimilate into America.

All he does is whine about his distant ancestors doing something 100+ years ago that somehow entitles him to do what he's doing today. Sorry Mr. Bundy, but you are not your ancestors. We expect you to earn what you have. You didn't earn the right to pillage public lands.

No, of course they cannot pass down privileges to their heirs. These leaches need to be kicked out of National Parks. It's just sickening how crazy the American government capitulates to white privilege. Evict them, drone strike them, whatever. These thugs need to be removed. The original leases should be designated as life estates only with the rest reverting to every American.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,589
29,292
136
While I might not agree with a particular cause, I support citizen's right to support causes.

This is the biggest issue with modern progressives. You all know in your soft hearts what is right, and everyone should support what you feel.

The reality is we should support people's right to protest etc against things they feel are unfair.
So you support the Rodney King rioters? Or just peaceful protests where long rifles are trained on Federal agents?
 

Abraxas

Golden Member
Oct 26, 2004
1,056
0
0
I see this "patriots don't follow unjust laws" thing bandied about but I have yet to see anyone explain why exactly the law is unjust. Is it that the land is Federal? The land has been federal so long it is written into the original constitution of the State of Nevada.

Is it that his ancestors were able to use the land and so should he? That's a dumb principle, do we just let anyone do anything their ancestors could so that laws can never be changed? Do we give him a competitive advantage on the market by letting him graze on land that he doesn't own and doesn't pay taxes on for free when no other rancher gets that consideration?

Is it that he is being charged a fee to use public land? Should we not have restrictions on who should get to use public lands, for what, and under what circumstances? Should I be able to graze cattle on the lawn of the White House if is suits me, another patch of federal land?

We have nobody's word but his that the BLM is supposed to use the fees to help ranchers and he isn't exactly coming from an unbiased place. I have seen no articulation as to what principle is being fought for here in the name of justice. It seems to me we just have the usual gun fanatics, desperately wishing for an example of where armed rebellion against the government is both good and necessary, have latched onto the dumbest possible example of taking because in this case guns were used to scare off government workers. To use this example you have to reject the rule of law, the court orders, the constitution of the state of Nevada, etc. but unless you discard all that you have to be faced with the fact you really aren't supporting freedom, you are really just celebrating firearms.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
I see this "patriots don't follow unjust laws" thing bandied about but I have yet to see anyone explain why exactly the law is unjust.

Its unjust because patriots don't feel they should pay for things if they don't want to. Also helps if you have connections to traitor and militia groups so you can try to force an armed standoff to defend your right to steal from everyone else.
Thankfully cooler heads prevailed and this piece of shit will be picked up and thrown in jail eventually and all his militia and hategroup buddies got their photos updated on the FBI watchlist.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
How do you so casually and confidently make accusations of racism against people you don't even know? At the most you've seen a picture of them and maybe read an article about them, perhaps even comprehended it too.

Seriously, how do you feel right with yourself in so casually making such a strong accusation? It is a common theme of your posts for a long time

I haven't settled on "such a strong accusation" yet. I said that I suspect they may be racist. A lot of what they say are commonly used as dog whistles for white supremacy: states rights, "patriots," claiming privilege to his ancestral pillaging, etc.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Or, rather than turning the land into another missile site or nuclear waste disposal site (do you even know if the land is suitable for that?), perhaps the two parties could be reasonable and through a mediator reach a fair financial settlement.

Afterall, the crime is the unpaid grazing fees right?

The courts reached a financial settlement and solution. In response, he chose to rally his friends into the Cattle Ranch Rebellion of 2014.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
I just think racism is such as serious charge that the evidence would have to be of such magnitude and quality that they would have been banned anyway. I don't think one can truly get to know someone else enough in a forum to level that accusation, even if some posting history might appear to support it.

Then again, I also think probably 90-95% of us who bicker back and forth would get along fine over beers, and not knowing who is who would be very surprised to learn real identities and personalities in person. Too easy to build up a mental spreadsheet of other users and place each one in certain categories. In short, the mental imagery we may have of other users probably is greater than the reality.

Hopefully, or there are some true assholes here in this little corner of the net.

I'd say more like 60-65%. I have no doubt that 90-95% of posters here (including myself at times) would be more polite in person, but that wouldn't change what they think. An asshole with a shiny veneer is still an asshole. Never mind that the internet is where assholes naturally congregate due to lack of consequences.
 
Sep 7, 2009
12,960
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Funny how righties are all for armed protest unless its black people protesting.

Remember all the Fox News panic buttons pushed during the Zimmerman trial?

Remember this back in the 60s??

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/14/the_nra_once_supported_gun_control/



I really think it's hilarious when you all try to bring up stuff that happened in the 40's to attempt to justify your viewpoints.


You realize that someone who was 30 in 1939 (when this happened, not the 60's as you claim) would be 105 years old?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,282
28,141
136
I really think it's hilarious when you all try to bring up stuff that happened in the 40's to attempt to justify your viewpoints.


You realize that someone who was 30 in 1939 (when this happened, not the 60's as you claim) would be 105 years old?

Kinda ignored that first one didn't ya? Zimmerman trial was last year.
 
Sep 7, 2009
12,960
3
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Kinda ignored that first one didn't ya? Zimmerman trial was last year.


Your zimmerman comment? I can't keep track of your emotional trolls. Like I said, form a cohesive argument and we'll debate it. I'm just not going to entertain emotional rages from people upset at the success of these good Patriots.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,665
24,968
136
Your zimmerman comment? I can't keep track of your emotional trolls. Like I said, form a cohesive argument and we'll debate it. I'm just not going to entertain emotional rages from people upset at the success of these good Patriots.

So good patriots don't pay their legally incurred debts and use guns to get their way. Got it.

That sounds very mom and apple pie.
 
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