Never ending wait for NVMe

[larryccf]

looks like toshiba is getting into the nvme PCIe SSD market in a big way

http://www.tomsitpro.com/articles/toshiba-bg1-pxo4p-ssd-xg3,1-2795.html

and that uk price on the nvme sm951 isn't that bad, maybe $13 higher than the achi version when it was first released

 

[steve wilson]

looks like toshiba is getting into the nvme PCIe SSD market in a big way

http://www.tomsitpro.com/articles/toshiba-bg1-pxo4p-ssd-xg3,1-2795.html

and that uk price on the nvme sm951 isn't that bad, maybe $13 higher than the achi version when it was first released

Do you think it will take long for the price to drop on the NVME SM951 drive? Or are we talking like 6-12 months?

 

[larryccf]

Do you think it will take long for the price to drop on the NVME SM951 drive? Or are we talking like 6-12 months?

have no idea but it'll be interesting to see how long it takes - probably same as with the ahci version of the sm951, when the next gen PCIe SSD with the "latest/greatest" controller hits, first gen nvme will be yesterday's news

the price of the ahci sm951 just dropped another couple bucks to $209 shipped on amazon - would love to see it down in the $180s and i'll jump on one - the ahci version nearly doubles the speed of my xp941 and it is fast (to me) coming from sata SSDs

 

[Redstorm]

Samsung have addressed the limited capacity of the SM951 with the PM953

PM953: an advanced NVMe SSD in M.2 and 2.5” form factors offering up to 1.92TB storage
Samsung is introducing an update to the industry’s first NVMe SSD (SM951) in an M.2 form factor that was announced earlier this year.
The new PM953 comes in NVMe interface and is available in both M.2 and 2.5” form factors to satisfy a variety of next-generation system requirements such as large-scale data centers and mobile workstations as well as ultra-slim notebook PCs and high-end desktops. The M.2 version will be offered with either 480 or 960 gigabytes (GBs), while the 2.5” version will be out in 480GB, 960GB and 1.92TB capacities.

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/samsung-rolls-strong-line-v-203000977.html

 

[Redstorm]

Do you think it will take long for the price to drop on the NVME SM951 drive? Or are we talking like 6-12 months?

I don't think it will take long at all for the prices to come down. Looking at pcisig their are a good number of vendors with NVMe PCI 3.0 4x designs readying for market.

As soon as the competition ramps up prices will come down but it don't think it will be long.

 

[bradly1101]

At the risk of sounding like an Intel salesman, unless the upcoming [finished-with heatsinks] drives are a good bit cheaper and/or faster than the 750 there's no need to wait.

Running programs on it is virtually the same as when they're cached in memory. I say 'virtually' because I know things still load faster from memory, but I truly can't see the difference. Games load quickly. I have a lot of add-on textures in Flight Simulator which used to take a long time to load. I had to turn off window animation because it was slowing things down so much.

Beside programs and games I also keep the Windows page file, PS cache, etc. on it. Everything is super quick, which is helpful at those times when I need that.

I know these drives work well when hanging off the PCH (especially with the increased bandwidth of Z170), but do best with the available CPU lanes in X79 & X99.

This is what I get with the 400GB Intel 750 model on X79 (the OS is on a fast SATA III SSD):

 

[steve wilson]

If I was buying right now, I would probably buy the Intel one. But I have to wait about 3-4 months before I'll have the money to upgrade, so I'm probably going to wait for the NMVe SM951, or maybe there will be something else by then.

 

[steve wilson]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2441787&page=2
They have run out of stock already and they have upped the prices too.

 

[larryccf]

steve - that link just brings us back to this page ???

 

[steve wilson]

steve - that link just brings us back to this page ???

Copy and pasting is a difficult skill ;p

http://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer...-ssd/solid-state-drives-(ssd-pcie)128gb-512gb

 

[larryccf]

even so, i just saw the 256 gb nvme sm951 for british pound equivalent of $209 USD (vat free), which is the same price the AHCI vs dropped to

that ain't a bad price - i'm tempted to pre-order

 

[Redstorm]

At the risk of sounding like an Intel salesman, unless the upcoming [finished-with heatsinks] drives are a good bit cheaper and/or faster than the 750 there's no need to wait.

There is no denying that the 750's perform much better the SATA3 and is a solid NVMe option.

My usage case is a client workload and fitting into a X99 system, use for coding & compiling and gaming.

What I like about the Intel 750:
Power loss protection
Performance*

What I don’t like:
*Server/Workstation Optimised (SM951 better 4k random with a QD1 which is more client oriented)
400GB vs 512GB
Form factor (my X99 OC Formula board has an ultra M.2)
Power consumption (SM951 beats it handsomely for performance/watt)

I’m not concerned about the thermal throttling as its minimal at best and unlikely to be an issue with a client workload, Sure if you go stressing it with a QD32 server oriented load then sure it will get hot.

What im looking for is the NVMe drive with the best random 4k performance at a low queue depth as that’s where it spends most of its time.

 

[Redstorm]

I'm quite surprised at the announcements at the Flash Memory Summit, None of the vendors are announcing products with availability, the lack of leaked benchmarks prior to FMS also points to that a lot of these controllers are not going to ship any time soon.

Looks like Samsung and Intel have a much bigger lead in NVMe than i was hoping for.

Both Marvell and Phison have also been very quite, hope its not SF37XX all over again.

 

[bradly1101]

There is no denying that the 750's perform much better the SATA3 and is a solid NVMe option.

My usage case is a client workload and fitting into a X99 system, use for coding & compiling and gaming.

What I like about the Intel 750:
Power loss protection
Performance*

What I don’t like:
*Server/Workstation Optimised (SM951 better 4k random with a QD1 which is more client oriented)
400GB vs 512GB
Form factor (my X99 OC Formula board has an ultra M.2)
Power consumption (SM951 beats it handsomely for performance/watt)

I’m not concerned about the thermal throttling as its minimal at best and unlikely to be an issue with a client workload, Sure if you go stressing it with a QD32 server oriented load then sure it will get hot.

What im looking for is the NVMe drive with the best random 4k performance at a low queue depth as that’s where it spends most of its time.

I ran Crystal on the 750 to give you a better idea (in case you hadn't seen them):

 

[Redstorm]

I ran Crystal on the 750 to give you a better idea (in case you hadn't seen them):

The last line is quite telling, even the SM951 AHCI version beats it hansomley in the low queue depth 4k area, for client workloads you can ignore QD32 as its not relevant, its just that the marketing department likes it cause it produces the highest numbers.

http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/samsung_sm951_512gb,6.html

http://www.legitreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/sm951-cdm-645x294.jpg

Because its using the older AHCI protocol your X79 would be able to use it as a boot drive.

The AHCI 512 model is ~40% faster than than the 750 @ 4k read (52v37), the NVMe 512 should be even better.

 

[bradly1101]

Hmmm. This must be why it feels so much faster to me (from my Corsair Neutron GTX). I guess a 951 would feel even better, it just seems like it's for OEM's who design their own cooling. More drives are coming though:

 

[steve wilson]

even so, i just saw the 256 gb nvme sm951 for british pound equivalent of $209 USD (vat free), which is the same price the AHCI vs dropped to

that ain't a bad price - i'm tempted to pre-order

Sorry but I'm a little confused. Is it $209 or £209? It's a good price at £209 and it's an amazing price at $209.

 

[larryccf]

Sorry but I'm a little confused. Is it $209 or £209? It's a good price at £209 and it's an amazing price at $209.

when i ran the vat free price (134.25 british pound) thru XE currency exchanger, it came out to $209 USD, which is damn good, especially considering that's same price that the AHCI version just dropped to on amazon

if they get hit with a number of "pre-orders" i suspect we'll see prices jump considerably

 

[steve wilson]

when i ran the vat free price (134.25 british pound) thru XE currency exchanger, it came out to $209 USD, which is damn good, especially considering that's same price that the AHCI version just dropped to on amazon

if they get hit with a number of "pre-orders" i suspect we'll see prices jump considerably

Wow that is an amazing price. What country is that if you don't mind me asking. Also what size drive... I've been looking at the 512GB one, but I've just realised you might be talking about a smaller one.

 

[larryccf]

steve - that was the website you gave a link to in the UK



i went to it, did a search for samsung nvme sm951 - that price was for the 256GB NVMe SM951 but the price on the 512 GB is equally tempting at $374. They're quoting 4.57 british pound for next day delivery, but suspect that's for UK delivery - i've emailed them asking for delivery quote to a virginia, usa zipcode
http://www.scan.co.uk/search.aspx?q=samsung+nvme+sm951

 

[Redstorm]

The so called update of the SM951 the PM953
http://scr3.golem.de/screenshots/1508/Samsung-PM953/thumb620/Samsung-PM953.JPG

PM953:
3-D V-NAND TLC with UBX Controller
Sequential Read up to: 1000MB/sec
Sequential Write up to: 870MB/sec
4KB Sustained Random Read up to: 240,000 IOPs
4KB Sustained Random Write up to: 19,000 IOPs
Power-loss protection: Yes

Ouch thats half the performance, What are they doing!!!

SM951 NVMe
The SM951-NVMe on the other hand:
16nm 64Gbit MLC with UBX Controller
Sequential Read: 2150MB/sec
Sequential Write: 1550MB/sec
4KB Random Read: 300,000 IOPs
4KB Random Write: 100,000 IOPs
Power-loss protection: No

I call the PM953 an update fail or its targeted at a different market, definitely not a replacement for the SM951 IMO.

 

[larryccf]

saw an announcement or article re samsung recently announced of a 2nd line of PCIe M.2 SSDs with two models, PM951 and PM953. One model was supposed to be geared to the performance market and the other to the client / cost minded market.

But the numbers you posted, even for the economy line, are a big step backward... wow

 

[Redstorm]

Phison officially launche 5007-e7-nvme, Drolls, hope its not a paper launch and we will see products to give us a choice in the M.2 NVMe space.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/phison-5007-e7-nmve,29833.html

Paper launch, firmware still in development!

 

[shabby]

Ouch thats half the performance, What are they doing!!!

Hopefully it'll be half the price too!

 

[steve wilson]

Phison officially launche 5007-e7-nvme, Drolls, hope its not a paper launch and we will see products to give us a choice in the M.2 NVMe space.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/phison-5007-e7-nmve,29833.html

Paper launch, firmware still in development!

That looks good, but until we see a review from someone reputable, I'm not going to get excited. Also it looks a long way off.