New 228i!

[michal1980]

very nice. might end up leasing one next year.

 

[Imported]

It's not even just about acceleration. It's about the whole package. Steering feel, handling, braking, etc. You value the road manners and quiet ride of your es while I find that boring.

Yup.

 

[Midwayman]

Even if the prius had 400hp I wouldn't drive one. Ugly little numb driving cars. Wrong wheel drive doesn't help either.

 

[rh71]

pricey for what you get and wish the interior were nicer (4 series also) but congrats... nice upgrade for sure.

So fun to drive. :awe:

See - people who don't own BMWs think owners drive like pricks when in reality they are simply fun to throw around aggressively.

 

[tortillasoup]

It's not even just about acceleration. It's about the whole package. Steering feel, handling, braking, etc. You value the road manners and quiet ride of your es while I find that boring.

Well you can't say the handling is significantly better as its slalom speed is only 61mph compared with 60mph for the Prius. If you wanted a firm ride on a Prius, just add more air which is exactly what I did on my ES since I really hated the mushy ride it had @ the stock 32PSI. It's kind of amazing how braking distance is all about the same on various vehicles, despite some being equipped with shitty tires and braking feel is the same if it's hard braking. It's true there is no "fixing" it being wrong wheeled drive nor the steering feel but otherwise I think there are better vehicles than a 228i for the same money or less.

Let me preface by saying that I'm not necessarily advocating the following cars but a 2007 Lexus IS 350 has a Slalom speed of 66.7mph and a 2006 Mazda Miata has a Slalom speed of 68.5. With the 228i having a piddly 61mph Slalom speed, it puts it squarely in Prius, Jetta, Camry, Altima, territory in terms of handling which were impressive 25 years ago but very mediocre/average if you're going to compare them with "sporty cars" of today...
http://autos.aol.com/cars-compare/?cur_page=details&v1=USC40BMC621A0&v2=USC30NIC042A0

 

[michal1980]

Well you can't say the handling is significantly better as its slalom speed is only 61mph compared with 60mph for the Prius. If you wanted a firm ride on a Prius, just add more air which is exactly what I did on my ES since I really hated the mushy ride it had @ the stock 32PSI. It's kind of amazing how braking distance is all about the same on various vehicles, despite some being equipped with shitty tires and braking feel is the same if it's hard braking. It's true there is no "fixing" it being wrong wheeled drive nor the steering feel but otherwise I think there are better vehicles than a 228i for the same money or less.

Let me preface by saying that I'm not necessarily advocating the following cars but a 2007 Lexus IS 350 has a Slalom speed of 66.7mph and a 2006 Mazda Miata has a Slalom speed of 68.5. With the 228i having a piddly 61mph Slalom speed, it puts it squarely in Prius, Jetta, Camry, Altima, territory in terms of handling which were impressive 25 years ago but very mediocre/average if you're going to compare them with "sporty cars" of today...
http://autos.aol.com/cars-compare/?cur_page=details&v1=USC40BMC621A0&v2=USC30NIC042A0

the 228 comes with terrible tires. The one benefit the track pack option will add is decent rubber.

 

[tortillasoup]

Is it the rubber or tire aspect ratio? Because the 228i has 205/50R17 tires/wheels while the Prius Two has 195/65/15 tires/wheels yet a Prius Five has 215/45R17 with the 228i M Sport having 225/40R18 tires/wheels. I wonder if anybody has done a comparison with the slalom times of the vehicles between their highest and lowest trim options.

Just came across this article here: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/first-drives/2012-toyota-prius-c Had no idea that a Prius C has a Slalom time of 64.1MPH! It's too bad the car felt like it didn't belong on the highway (I know C = City) due to its road manners. Its power tapers off greatly when you start getting into the highway range of speed and this may be due to the downsized battery pack and therefore lower peak HP of 99. The car felt really peppy in low speed operation like from 0-30mph and the turning radius was pretty impressive.

 

[reallyscrued]

Either 4.9 second is wrong or BMW is severely underrating the HP numbers.

They are...it's 240 to the wheels.

Same engine I believe:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2012-bmw-328i-dyno-tested.html

 

[reallyscrued]

Well you can't say the handling is significantly better as its slalom speed is only 61mph compared with 60mph for the Prius. If you wanted a firm ride on a Prius, just add more air which is exactly what I did on my ES since I really hated the mushy ride it had @ the stock 32PSI. It's kind of amazing how braking distance is all about the same on various vehicles, despite some being equipped with shitty tires and braking feel is the same if it's hard braking. It's true there is no "fixing" it being wrong wheeled drive nor the steering feel but otherwise I think there are better vehicles than a 228i for the same money or less.

Let me preface by saying that I'm not necessarily advocating the following cars but a 2007 Lexus IS 350 has a Slalom speed of 66.7mph and a 2006 Mazda Miata has a Slalom speed of 68.5. With the 228i having a piddly 61mph Slalom speed, it puts it squarely in Prius, Jetta, Camry, Altima, territory in terms of handling which were impressive 25 years ago but very mediocre/average if you're going to compare them with "sporty cars" of today...
http://autos.aol.com/cars-compare/?cur_page=details&v1=USC40BMC621A0&v2=USC30NIC042A0

Yeah...Slalom speed isn't the be-all, end-all of handling...just...so you know..

 

[Midwayman]

Let me preface by saying that I'm not necessarily advocating the following cars but a 2007 Lexus IS 350 has a Slalom speed of 66.7mph and a 2006 Mazda Miata has a Slalom speed of 68.5. With the 228i having a piddly 61mph Slalom speed, it puts it squarely in Prius, Jetta, Camry, Altima, territory in terms of handling which were impressive 25 years ago but very mediocre/average if you're going to compare them with "sporty cars" of today...
http://autos.aol.com/cars-compare/?cur_page=details&v1=USC40BMC621A0&v2=USC30NIC042A0

I'm not sure how much I'd trust their stats. Their acceleration times seem really off.

 

[SSSnail]

Holy crap, I, for one, just learned today that the difference between crappy handing and great handling is just tire pressure. I've been lied to this whole time, and I'm ashamed.

I just have one quick question - are the tires supposed to be inflated to sidewall to achieve handling greatness?

 

[Imported]

I'm not sure how much I'd trust their stats. Their acceleration times seem really off.

Way off..

 

[Drako]

My biggest pet peeve with the Prius is the gauge cluster and steering feel. Seriously, there is no feedback/feel in the steering wheel, totally sucks. However I will say that even the ES350 has crappy road feedback, the M35 is acceptable but also disappointingly numb.

Prius isn't a bad car and I think you're grossly exaggerating the Prius' faults mostly because it doesn't accelerate as quickly as you were used to with those other vehicles.

:hmm:

 

[tortillasoup]

Holy crap, I, for one, just learned today that the difference between crappy handing and great handling is just tire pressure. I've been lied to this whole time, and I'm ashamed.

I just have one quick question - are the tires supposed to be inflated to sidewall to achieve handling greatness?

Nobody lied to you, you just didn't know any better. Seriously tho, have you ever Autocross? Like the easiest most important thing you can do for your tires when driving them hard and expect good feedback is to up the tire pressure. The tire pressures listed on the door for the Camry/ES350 has is for ride comfort. Go read the owner's manual and there is a chance they'll have a different list of pressures for highspeed or performance driving. A Camry with 40PSi in the tires handles way better IMO than when it has 32psi. I just hate that mushy feeling it has at the lower pressures, also notice a bit less road noise @ higher pressures.

Yeah...Slalom speed isn't the be-all, end-all of handling...just...so you know..

There aren't too many hard and fast metrics you can compare with vehicles when it comes to handling. Sure some cars may oversteer and understeer, but aside from Skidpad Gs, Slalom speeds say a lot about the handling capabilities of the car and how the drivetrain and steering interact.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Curious if those of you just now "discovering" BMW drove cars like the E36/E46 3-series and M3 cars. I can only describe the current 3 as a loose, flabby interpretation of their forefathers. The steering weight and feel use to be so much better and more precise.

 

[Imported]

Curious if those of you just now "discovering" BMW drove cars like the E36/E46 3-series and M3 cars. I can only describe the current 3 as a loose, flabby interpretation of their forefathers. The steering weight and feel use to be so much better and more precise.

I've driven an E46 M3, but with the SMG and only briefly. I'd have to drive them back to back to know the difference.. but the 228i feels pretty good steering wise, especially in Sport mode. The last BMW I drove prior to the 228i was a 2012 328i convertible.

New photo from Napa this weekend:

And yes, the tow hook cover popped off after getting hit by a flying aluminum can from the bed of a truck in front of me. What great luck I have.. lol

 

[Midwayman]

Nobody lied to you, you just didn't know any better. Seriously tho, have you ever Autocross? Like the easiest most important thing you can do for your tires when driving them hard and expect good feedback is to up the tire pressure. The tire pressures listed on the door for the Camry/ES350 has is for ride comfort. Go read the owner's manual and there is a chance they'll have a different list of pressures for highspeed or performance driving. A Camry with 40PSi in the tires handles way better IMO than when it has 32psi. I just hate that mushy feeling it has at the lower pressures, also notice a bit less road noise @ higher pressures.

Its a cure for soft sidewalls anyways. For long term use, raising tire pressure will cause excessive wear in the center. Tire pressures are set to achieve even tire wear. If you're on a track you should get a temp gun and read the inside middle and outside temps and balance pressures accordingly. Chances are the pressures will be higher than stock.

 

[Throckmorton]

I've driven an E46 M3, but with the SMG and only briefly. I'd have to drive them back to back to know the difference.. but the 228i feels pretty good steering wise, especially in Sport mode. The last BMW I drove prior to the 228i was a 2012 328i convertible.

New photo from Napa this weekend:

And yes, the tow hook cover popped off after getting hit by a flying aluminum can from the bed of a truck in front of me. What great luck I have.. lol

Well you park like a BMW driver!

 

[Imported]

Well you park like a BMW driver!

I was in an out in a few minutes.. just parked for the photo.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Curious if those of you just now "discovering" BMW drove cars like the E36/E46 3-series and M3 cars. I can only describe the current 3 as a loose, flabby interpretation of their forefathers. The steering weight and feel use to be so much better and more precise.

Boy, I don't get that at all. I actually own an E46 M3 and an E90 330i with Sport package, and the latter represents a significant advance in terms of turn-in and handling over my older car. It is if anything distinctly less "loose" then my M3. The immediacy of the steering is remarkable. I have not yet driven an F30 but I have no reason to doubt that it too is a great handling car.

 

[hans007]

Boy, I don't get that at all. I actually own an E46 M3 and an E90 330i with Sport package, and the latter represents a significant advance in terms of turn-in and handling over my older car. It is if anything distinctly less "loose" then my M3. The immediacy of the steering is remarkable. I have not yet driven an F30 but I have no reason to doubt that it too is a great handling car.

I've driven the e46 , a few e90s and I own a f30.

Roommate used to have a e46 m3 as well.

My f30 has sport and I've driven the e90 with sport and non. I'd say the f30 sport is a little less sporty and the steering is different . less feedback but also easier to control. The hydraulic racks were heavy and I suppose BMW might be a little softer these days but as an all around car they are better cars. Its not like anyone really is tracking their car a lot.

The e90 I felt was easily the worst of the last 3 generations. Sure it might have had more steering feedback than the f30 but the car was a lot less comfortable and didn't really handle better to be worth it. The earlier gen runflats were brutal on ride quality and made handling worse than. The new ones.

I suppose I'd say the e46 drove the best especially since they had normal tires and better feeling steering but the new cars are just more luxurious and better equipped as overall vehicles. BMWs are about getting a great all around vehicle I'd say and they are still doing a great job at that.


Congrats to the OP too. I like the 2 series a lot. Might have to save some cash over the next couple year and get an m2 ...

I've sat in the 2 at the dealer and I also used to have a first gen g35. Its way more roomy its really not much smaller than a 3 series inside. But wow $45k sticker hurts. Though I guess yours is very loaded.

Enjoy yourself out there. And watch out for that m sport front bumper it I'll scrape any and everything

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

The e90 I felt was easily the worst of the last 3 generations. Sure it might have had more steering feedback than the f30 but the car was a lot less comfortable and didn't really handle better to be worth it. The earlier gen runflats were brutal on ride quality and made handling worse than. The new ones.

I suppose I'd say the e46 drove the best especially since they had normal tires and better feeling steering but the new cars are just more luxurious and better equipped as overall vehicles. BMWs are about getting a great all around vehicle I'd say and they are still doing a great job at that.

I find that sentiment very hard to understand. I have driven my E90 and my M3 on the track and extensively on the road, and to this day (after owning it for six years) I continue to find the handling of my E90 really revelatory. When it had run-flats (I took them off about 4 years ago), the ride could be a bit brittle over some surfaces, but in return it provided really knife-edge turn-in, which is blunted slightly with non-RFT tires. I do like my M3 a lot but the rack feels much slower than my E90, and overall the car feels considerably less nimble. In general I think the E90 was a huge step forward in handling for the 3 series. I don't have any experience with the F30, but I gather it too is quite good. I have toyed with the idea of selling both my cars and getting an F80, but probably won't unless some of my private investments really come through this year.