New AMD Polaris based GPU

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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
Polaris is the Skylake of GPUs. It's been with us for years!

What makes it further true is by process tweaks they are getting insane clocks from Polaris.

If AMD would use GDDR5 9000 MHz, with 1680 MHz GPU - we would be talking about GTX 1070 class performance.

You need the thing to be 40-50% faster to match GTX 1070. We aren't getting that. It's going to need something like 11G GDDR5X and 2200MHz boost clocks to do that.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,765
4,668
136
What makes it further true is by process tweaks they are getting insane clocks from Polaris.



You need the thing to be 40-50% faster to match GTX 1070. We aren't getting that. It's going to need something like 11G GDDR5X and 2200MHz boost clocks to do that.
GTX 1070 is 30% faster than RX 580.

Additional 32 GB/s of memory bandwidth, and over 22% higher clock speeds would make Polaris 30 GTX 1070 performance level chip.
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,605
1,540
136
GTX 1070 is 30% faster than RX 580.

Additional 32 GB/s of memory bandwidth, and over 22% higher clock speeds would make Polaris 30 GTX 1070 performance level chip.

People are getting into dreamland. A 56 CU Vega 56 is 1070 class, a 36 CU 590 is going to fall very short.
 

Head1985

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2014
1,866
699
136
People are getting into dreamland. A 56 CU Vega 56 is 1070 class, a 36 CU 590 is going to fall very short.
Yeah but vega 56 reference runs only at 1350mhz+- and it is 10-15% faster than 1070.
Polaris at 1650Mhz with 10Ghz gddr5x will be very close to 1070.Of course with 8Ghz memory it will be again +10% vs rx580...
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
GTX 1070 is 30% faster than RX 580.

Additional 32 GB/s of memory bandwidth, and over 22% higher clock speeds would make Polaris 30 GTX 1070 performance level chip.

You know what, yes it is 30%, my bad. I was looking at the RX 590 results for FFXIV.

But I still think it'll take 2 additional such changes to catch up to the GTX 1070, and that also requires modifying it to support GDDR5X, and may not happen without layout changes, then in which case forget about it.

RX 590 looks to be about 10% faster. Do you think Polaris is so memory bandwidth bound that moving to GDDR5X will improve performance by an additional 20%? That suggests its nearly entirely memory bandwidth bound. Tests show its not memory bandwidth bound at all:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/10446/the-amd-radeon-rx-480-preview
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/RX_580_Nitro_Plus/33.html

While Kabylake, Coffeelake, and Coffeelake Refresh is nice, Intel shouldn't keep making such chips. No, they should go to Icelake. Likewise, Polaris should retire and the one after RX 590 should be based on new architecture that performs noticeably better. AMD is only doing this because they have no better alternatives.
 
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Insomniator

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
6,294
171
106
Have a feeling this thing is gonna come out at $300 and not be worth it over ~$200 AR 580's that are poppin up lately.
 

neblogai

Member
Oct 29, 2017
144
49
101
Have a feeling this thing is gonna come out at $300 and not be worth it over ~$200 AR 580's that are poppin up lately.

Even if they do come out at high prices (as a novelty item)- there is no reason for manufacturers to price them high- with all the board/cooler being the same. So, it should drop to prices similar to same cooler based Polaris20 level soon enough (with maybe a €20 extra, which is about equal to the value of their higher performance). And later, when poor-cooler versions start to show up (we still do not know the base clocks of Polaris30)- RX590 prices close to €200 should also start to pop-up.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,765
4,668
136
Even if they do come out at high prices (as a novelty item)- there is no reason for manufacturers to price them high- with all the board/cooler being the same. So, it should drop to prices similar to same cooler based Polaris20 level soon enough (with maybe a €20 extra, which is about equal to the value of their higher performance). And later, when poor-cooler versions start to show up (we still do not know the base clocks of Polaris30)- RX590 prices close to €200 should also start to pop-up.
The reason for price hike would be simple. There might actually be RX 580 2048 GCN core, RX 570 1792 GCN core, etc...
 

lifeblood

Senior member
Oct 17, 2001
999
88
91
I’ve been watching the 590 is a possible replacement for my gtx 770. I could buy it as a Christmas present to me. It would dominate at 1080p and when my current monitor died I could step up to a 1440p monitor and still get good FPS.

Then I read and article that claimed Navi 12 would be out in the first half of next year and would be squarely aimed at the midrange gamer giving gtx 1080 levels of performance at midrange prices. Ugh, now I can’t decide whether to wait or not.

Of course the article I read was on wccftech so I have zero confidence in its accuracy...
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,115
690
126
I’ve been watching the 590 is a possible replacement for my gtx 770. I could buy it as a Christmas present to me. It would dominate at 1080p and when my current monitor died I could step up to a 1440p monitor and still get good FPS.

Then I read and article that claimed Navi 12 would be out in the first half of next year and would be squarely aimed at the midrange gamer giving gtx 1080 levels of performance at midrange prices. Ugh, now I can’t decide whether to wait or not.

Of course the article I read was on wccftech so I have zero confidence in its accuracy...

Latest reliable rumors put Navi's release in late 2019 or early 2020. It's a long ways out unfortunately.
 

prtskg

Senior member
Oct 26, 2015
261
94
101
I’ve been watching the 590 is a possible replacement for my gtx 770. I could buy it as a Christmas present to me. It would dominate at 1080p and when my current monitor died I could step up to a 1440p monitor and still get good FPS.

Then I read and article that claimed Navi 12 would be out in the first half of next year and would be squarely aimed at the midrange gamer giving gtx 1080 levels of performance at midrange prices. Ugh, now I can’t decide whether to wait or not.

Of course the article I read was on wccftech so I have zero confidence in its accuracy...
Navi would perhaps come out in 2nd half of 2019 as AMD said 2nd half of 2019 will be more interesting for consumer gpus. Source is Q3 earnings call transcript.
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,971
1,692
136
I’ve been watching the 590 is a possible replacement for my gtx 770. I could buy it as a Christmas present to me. It would dominate at 1080p and when my current monitor died I could step up to a 1440p monitor and still get good FPS.

Buy what you need, when you need it. Otherwise, The Next Best Thing (TM) is always just around the corner.

Unreleased products are just that, unreleased. Besides, you should always allow ~6 months for drivers to catch up.
 

neblogai

Member
Oct 29, 2017
144
49
101
Buy what you need, when you need it. Otherwise, The Next Best Thing (TM) is always just around the corner.

Unreleased products are just that, unreleased. Besides, you should always allow ~6 months for drivers to catch up.

That is not a very good advice- buying when you need it, not looking at the market or tech situation can get you a product that has been on the market for several years, and is about be be replaced by cheaper or better next generation. I usually advise in a bit different way: buy good product when it is cheap! RAM and SSDs before their price increase, or deals like Ryzen 5 1600 for a €120, 2600 for €140, and similar. Even high-end can sometimes be a good deal- like GTX1080Ti on release back in spring 2017- when it was offering just as good price/performance as mid-range cards- without any luxury charge.
And, now is a prime time to buy PCs: SSD, RAM and AMD CPU prices have dropped a lot, there is oversupply of GPUs, and on top of that- Black Friday/Xmas sales season is coming.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,982
839
136
I’ve been watching the 590 is a possible replacement for my gtx 770. I could buy it as a Christmas present to me. It would dominate at 1080p and when my current monitor died I could step up to a 1440p monitor and still get good FPS.

The price of the 590 makes it very difficult to recommend I'm afraid. You could probably buy a Vega 56 and be much happier in the interim before Navi is released. This would give you both stellar 1080p performance and good 4K performance for not that much more money. Just my .02

EDIT: RX 590 MSRP to be around $300, which means vendors are going to be closer to $350, or perhaps even closer to $400 for AIB models.
 
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lifeblood

Senior member
Oct 17, 2001
999
88
91
The price of the 590 makes it very difficult to recommend I'm afraid. You could probably buy a Vega 56 and be much happier in the interim before Navi is released. This would give you both stellar 1080p performance and good 4K performance for not that much more money. Just my .02

EDIT: RX 590 MSRP to be around $300, which means vendors are going to be closer to $350, or perhaps even closer to $400 for AIB models.
I occasionally see Vega 56 at around $400. If RX 590 is $300 or higher than you are correct, it's not worth it. I was hoping a "stock" RX 590 would come in around $250.

I see a gtx 1070 for $350 on Newegg right now. Why get a RX 590 for $300 if you can get a gtx 1070 for $350? No, the price for RX 590 needs to be around $250.
 

lifeblood

Senior member
Oct 17, 2001
999
88
91
Videocardz is reporting a US MSRP of $279 for a stock RX 590. I have no idea if anyone will actually offer a stock RX 590. Assuming that is the price, it's not as good as I hoped but not as bad as I feared. I don't think it is low enough to cause Nvidia to lower the price of the 1070 or 1060.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,982
839
136
I doubt there will be 590's available near MSRP at launch... but who knows? Prices on RX 580 cards are starting to come down so perhaps they'll be a break.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,015
6,465
136
Really, AMD should cut prices to as low as they go to pick up market share. It may not be the most profitable move, but since they're not moving to 7nm with these, it let's them eat up extra capacity they need to use for the WSA with GF anyhow.

With the 580 having a lot of deals dropping below $200, there's no way that they can sell this for $280 unless it has some faster memory to go with it.
 

neblogai

Member
Oct 29, 2017
144
49
101
Videocardz is reporting a US MSRP of $279 for a stock RX 590. I have no idea if anyone will actually offer a stock RX 590. Assuming that is the price, it's not as good as I hoped but not as bad as I feared. I don't think it is low enough to cause Nvidia to lower the price of the 1070 or 1060.

When saying RX590 is $280, the same sentence should include the fact that for that price it comes with 3 games. Game bundles are usually not worth much, but it is impossible to discard the value this time- Devil May Cry 5, The Division 2, and Resident Evil 2 are all top games, unreleased, launching Q1 2019.
 
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,065
7,491
136
That is not a very good advice- buying when you need it, not looking at the market or tech situation can get you a product that has been on the market for several years, and is about be be replaced by cheaper or better next generation. I usually advise in a bit different way: buy good product when it is cheap! RAM and SSDs before their price increase, or deals like Ryzen 5 1600 for a €120, 2600 for €140, and similar. Even high-end can sometimes be a good deal- like GTX1080Ti on release back in spring 2017- when it was offering just as good price/performance as mid-range cards- without any luxury charge.
And, now is a prime time to buy PCs: SSD, RAM and AMD CPU prices have dropped a lot, there is oversupply of GPUs, and on top of that- Black Friday/Xmas sales season is coming.

- Feels like you'd have to have a crystal ball or some serious magic in your veins to have predicted the 1080 Ti at launch would be a killer deal today or that Ryzen was going to completely upend the CPU market or figure out when the mining craze was going to end or... I mean even now RAM prices are double what they were in 2016, not as bad as it was a year ago, but still pricey.

That's why the buy when you need it philosophy is so appealing: make smart purchasing decisions but if you don't time things perfectly don't beat yourself up about it. You still got what you needed when you needed it.

Looking at my 2016 build, I knocked it out of the park with the graphics card and RAM, but didn't time the CPU purchase properly and could have doubled my cores and increased the longevity of my build... But hey whadya gonna do it's not like AMD had been hitting a string of homers at that point or anything...
 
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