New bill introduced today for more skilled foreign workers

[Leros]

We need skilled workers. The US simply does not have enough educated people. Go to just about any high school in America and you'll find that foreign students tend to be smarter than the American students. Now, look at the undergraduate programs in college, a large percentage of the top students are foreigners (and foreigners as a whole tend to be higher ranked than Americans). Now look at the graduate programs, most of the students are foreigners. Its clearly a case where foreigners have better educational values than we do.

Whatever... I don't see the problem letting foreigners in. Why would you not want smart people coming into your country?

Sure, you can keep the smart foreigners out. American companies can hire the less qualified workers, and then go out of business because foreign companies have better workers. I say we embrace the foreigners. Bring in the best foreigners we can to build up our country. Who cares if they aren't originally from the US. They'll become Americans and help make our country better.

 

[Leros]

As somebody that works as an engineer, I can say flat out that we need more good engineers. While much of the economy is still languishing we're hiring again. My department is trying to expand and add some more engineers but can't because we can't find good applicants. Our competitors have started to hire as well, pulling away some of our own people and making it even more important that we find new hires.

It's a simple fact that there are not enough US students earning math, science, and engineering degrees to fuel the kind of growth and industry that we want. If there are people here that have those skills we would be insane to kick them out. We want to keep as many of those people here as we can, if they leave we'll just end up working for a foreign company that we need to compete against.

Whats worse is that the educational requirements in this country keep getting worse and worse.

My high school was a joke. If you took the regular level classes, they would literally feed you the answers to tests so that people would pass.

I graduated with an electrical engineering degree last year from a top 10 university. I would say that at least 25% of my fellow graduates are not capable of being engineers. And only about 10% or less of my fellow graduates are what I would consider to be "good, talented" engineers.

 

[nublikescake]

I guess instead of bailing banks out, Obama should pump some money into the higher education system to reduce tuition fees. It will take some time but it can do its part in revitalizing the economy in the long term in a way that no bailout to the fat leechers at Wall Street can.

 

[Savij]

As somebody that works as an engineer, I can say flat out that we need more good engineers. While much of the economy is still languishing we're hiring again. My department is trying to expand and add some more engineers but can't because we can't find good applicants. Our competitors have started to hire as well, pulling away some of our own people and making it even more important that we find new hires.

It's a simple fact that there are not enough US students earning math, science, and engineering degrees to fuel the kind of growth and industry that we want. If there are people here that have those skills we would be insane to kick them out. We want to keep as many of those people here as we can, if they leave we'll just end up working for a foreign company that we need to compete against.

Seriously, we've had engineering reqs open for months and cant even get people that we want to bring in the door.

 

[Leros]

I guess instead of bailing banks out, Obama should pump some money into the higher education system to reduce tuition fees. It will take some time but it can do its part in revitalizing the economy in the long term in a way that no bailout to the fat leechers at Wall Street can.

The problem with education in this country is not at the college level. People's educational ambition is already made up by that age. If somebody is smart and determined, they'll go to college despite any financial hardships.

The problem is at a much younger age. I personally think that a student's educational ambition is pretty much set in stone by jr high. If they're not motivated by then, they're basically a lost cause.

 

[nublikescake]

The problem with education in this country is not at the college level. People's educational ambition is already made up by that age. If somebody is smart and determined, they'll go to college despite any financial hardships.

The problem is at a much younger age. I personally think that a student's educational ambition is pretty much set in stone by jr high. If they're not motivated by then, they're basically a lost cause.

You've hit the nail on the head. It's what I was going to say much earlier in the thread but didn't want to at the risk of sounding judgmental. :\

 

[bigi]

Meanwhile youth and university grad unemployment/underemployment levels are the highest they've been in years.

Because most of those are fucking retards compared to skilled workers from overseas. Why do you think Intel/MS wants this bill?

 

[sdifox]

I know of no country that is this stupid in regards to letting foreigners take jobs from Americans and even encourages it. You simply MUST control the flow of foreigners who want to work here. MUST.

Now if they want to come here and truly be entrepreneurs, then fine, this is America. But I've seen it first hand how cheap the H1B tech labor is compared to normal rate, we're talking 50% discount.

Hell, I got turned away from the Canadian border once because I mistakenly told them I was entering to do some network work. Pro-Tip - tell them you're there for "meetings" and not doing any actual work.

Canada does it better, we lure them in with promise of high paying jobs, they immigrate and can only be cab drivers :awe:

 

[Texashiker]

Meanwhile youth and university grad unemployment/underemployment levels are the highest they've been in years.

From what I see, most of todays youths are more interesting in smoking weed, abusing bath salts, drinking, or smoking k2, then working and having a career.

Mommy and daddy have worked all their lives, why get a job when kids can just live in the basement and mooch.

People coming from third world countries have a reason to work and have a career - they do not want to go back to where they came from.

American kids - they have no reason to leave mommy and daddies house.

 

[GT1999]

You have GOT to be kidding me.. :-/

 

[polarmystery]

No shock. From my experience, people from the US view science/engineering as extremely difficult...and in the land of the lazy, we just want to be the boss without doing the work. Foreigners at least want to do science/engineering. I say good for them.

 

[BeauJangles]

We need skilled workers. The US simply does not have enough educated people. Go to just about any high school in America and you'll find that foreign students tend to be smarter than the American students. Now, look at the undergraduate programs in college, a large percentage of the top students are foreigners (and foreigners as a whole tend to be higher ranked than Americans). Now look at the graduate programs, most of the students are foreigners. Its clearly a case where foreigners have better educational values than we do.

Whatever... I don't see the problem letting foreigners in. Why would you not want smart people coming into your country?

Sure, you can keep the smart foreigners out. American companies can hire the less qualified workers, and then go out of business because foreign companies have better workers. I say we embrace the foreigners. Bring in the best foreigners we can to build up our country. Who cares if they aren't originally from the US. They'll become Americans and help make our country better.

This.

American Universities cannot keep up with the demand for software and hardware engineers. Anybody who has paid attention to the tech sector in the last two years knows that companies like Facebook and Google are desperate for GOOD engineers that they're actually buying start-ups to gain employees (called "aquihires") and they're offering HUGE retention bonuses. Reportedly, Google offered one of their senior engineers nearly $50 million to stay with them.

These companies are fueling the only growth we have in this country right now and, if we don't help them acquire the high-quality talent they need here, they will do so abroad. Personally, I'd much rather this country bring in a talented foreigner than lose an entire division of a company to another country.

 

[darkswordsman17]

The problem with education in this country is not at the college level. People's educational ambition is already made up by that age. If somebody is smart and determined, they'll go to college despite any financial hardships.

The problem is at a much younger age. I personally think that a student's educational ambition is pretty much set in stone by jr high. If they're not motivated by then, they're basically a lost cause.

Exactly, and its only getting worse.

Much of what made the US a power was our investment and leadership in programs like higher education, research and development, etc. Very often importing the best minds in the world and then reaping the benefits.

 

[Texashiker]

If somebody is smart and determined, they'll go to college despite any financial hardships.

I personally think that a student's educational ambition is pretty much set in stone by jr high. If they're not motivated by then, they're basically a lost cause.

I dont think its a matter of being "smart" - I have seen some really stupid people that completed college and get good paying jobs.

By the time I finished high school, I HATED school. I probably hated school by the time I was in junior high, and high school was just the icing on the cake. When I graduated high school, I never wanted to step foot in a school ever again. Fastward 9 years, I decided to go to college for the first time - while I was already in an established career and had a family.

I think the issue with Americas technology gap starts with the schools, teachers unions, and standardized classes. Teachers dont have to worry about their jobs, they dont have to worry about if the kids are actually learning, as long as that union is there to make sure the teachers job is secure, that is all their worried about.

When I was in school, I HATED how the teachers suppressed independent thought. One time in math class a student showed a teacher an easier way to do an equation. The teacher said even if there was an easier way, the class was still going to do the equation the hard way.

Students go into a classroom to learn, and they first thing they are told is to "sit down and shutup".

 

[Imdmn04]

I have no problem with the bill.

If we didn't turn away your grandpa as a dock worker 100 years ago, then why should we turn away these highly skilled scientist and engineers? Don't feel like you are entitled just because you are born here. In the truest capitalist form, the hardest/smartest worker should be able to make a good living, no matter where. You don't deserve a silver platter just because you are born here. Protectionism goes against the fundamentals of capitalism. The American dream is founded on being able to make it here as an immigrant with absolutely nothing to this land of opportunity and making something of yourself.

 

[bignateyk]

As somebody that works as an engineer, I can say flat out that we need more good engineers. While much of the economy is still languishing we're hiring again. My department is trying to expand and add some more engineers but can't because we can't find good applicants. Our competitors have started to hire as well, pulling away some of our own people and making it even more important that we find new hires.

It's a simple fact that there are not enough US students earning math, science, and engineering degrees to fuel the kind of growth and industry that we want. If there are people here that have those skills we would be insane to kick them out. We want to keep as many of those people here as we can, if they leave we'll just end up working for a foreign company that we need to compete against.

I agree with you as an engineer, but most of the foreigners are pretty terrible. At least the ones who don't speak english very well. I'd rather have an American that is average who I can at least communicate with than a really smart asian who doesn't know what the hell I am trying to get him to do.


td;dr; I don't want to work with people who speak engrish.

 

[Spikesoldier]

When I was in school, I HATED how the teachers suppressed independent thought. One time in math class a student showed a teacher an easier way to do an equation. The teacher said even if there was an easier way, the class was still going to do the equation the hard way.

Students go into a classroom to learn, and they first thing they are told is to "sit down and shutup".

That is because the hard way introduces concepts that are required for the next section or chapter after that one. She is setting you up to learn concrete concepts in order, not trying to suppress your thought.

I do agree that the teachers can reach a point that they don't care because they have the union and job security. I wish they were a little more empowered and were able to take intervention action against kids who aren't doing well without all the red tape in an attempt to turn them around and show them the value in an education.

 

[TwiceOver]

I guess "cheap" is defined by where you live. We have an H1-B worker and she is by no means cheap even at the minimum requirement.

 

[ichy]

Good. We should be importing the rest of the world's best and brightest, not a bunch of illegals who can't even speak English.

 

[coloumb]

At least if they get an education here - it's easier to prove it's an actually degree.

I don't agree with just handing them a green card though - they should have to go through the same hoops [doctors appoints, interviews, etc] and financial burdens [~$10k] like any other legitimate green card holder does.

 

[ichy]

Better a green card than H-1B visas. Those are a load of crap, they basically turned skilled foreign workers into indentured servants which in turn depresses wages for everyone.

 

[jchu14]

I like it.

I am in an engineering graduate program right now, and I hate seeing some of the best students/researchers being forced to leave the states after they graduate because they can't find a company to sponsor them. It makes no sense to me why immigration laws makes it so hard for some of the brightest and well educated people in the world to live here. The US needs to take advantage of the fact that we have the best higher level education in the world and retain these people instead of closing the door on them.

I've also heard stories of some companies taking advantage of the person during the application process (depressed wages, excessive hours, etc). H1B to green card takes about 5 years and the person is essentially stuck at the company because they don't want to restart the whole process. Thus companies have all the power in that relationship and leaving the employee with no recourse.

 

[God Mode]

I wish we can fuck these companies back and h1b some doctors and other professionals at less than half the costs of the bloated mess here. lol

 

[Svnla]

Good. We should be importing the rest of the world's best and brightest, not a bunch of illegals who can't even speak English.

This.

Why should we keep the smart ones out and let the ILLEGALS with no skill in? So them ILLEGALS could march and demand amnesty and let even more illiterate ILLEGALS in?

Like someone who told me "if we have to, we could make the doctors, engineers, accountants to mow the yard and such but there is no way we can make illiterate ILLEGALS to do the tasks of doctors, engineers, accountants, etc."

 

[ElFenix]

This.

Why should we keep the smart ones out and let the ILLEGALS with no skill in? So them ILLEGALS could march and demand amnesty and let even more illiterate ILLEGALS in?

Like someone who told me "if we have to, we could make the doctors, engineers, accountants to mow the yard and such but there is no way we can make illiterate ILLEGALS to do the tasks of doctors, engineers, accountants, etc."

there's a lot of ILLEGALS who have overstayed their student visas.