New Bill to eliminate the Electoral College

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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
If all the states assigned their electoral votes proportionally based on the popular vote in each state, wouldn't that be the same thing as having a national popular vote, with the electoral college being a more or less useless appendage in the process?

Not exactly. Smaller states would still get extra representation, and states could also assign the +2 to the overall winner in the state rather than proportional. Would have to look at prior elections to see if it really makes much of a difference anyway.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
Not exactly. Smaller states would still get extra representation, and states could also assign the +2 to the overall winner in the state rather than proportional. Would have to look at prior elections to see if it really makes much of a difference anyway.

I'm against any proposal which maintains the disproportionate voting power of people who live in smaller states. They already get it by way of representation in the Senate. That is enough.
 
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nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,596
7,854
136
No. People in states don't vote as uniform blocks. That's never been the case. Ironically, the EC artificially creates that voting block.
Bingo!

The electoral college creates arbitrary lines that only act to make a substantial minority of votes in a particular state not count at all.

49.99999% of a state voted for X.
50.00001% of a state votes for Y.

Votes for X might as well be collected and thrown away, much like what Republicans actually did in North Carolina recently.

Also: The House of Representatives needs to be vastly increased in numbers of Representatives, and the Senate should essentially be a smaller version of the House of Representatives, instead of this obscene, every state gets 2 Senators garbage.

Not that any of those problems will actually be solved anytime soon, since it requires a fully functional country with a fully functional society.

But, we can dream!
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,296
8,211
136
One more thing. How about making state primary dates random each year? Small states should not call the shots every year.

Who would decide that? Would that not be a private matter for the parties involved? Or are primaries, and hence the two dominant parties, somehow institutionalised in law?
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
Who would decide that? Would that not be a private matter for the parties involved? Or are primaries, and hence the two dominant parties, somehow institutionalised in law?

Easy way would be State with first state, then second then third state to become a state.

Not really sure what that would address, the problem is with the EC not representing the voters well or effectively
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
I disagree with it being self serving. It's serving constituents the way it should be.

I don’t disagree with doing later but if the argument against it is “ you guys just want to change it to win” the legitimate reasons for the change are lost.

If Dems win in 2020 push it then. My point is we need immediate voting reform now
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,089
38,632
136
Terrible idea.

Only if inequity at the voting booth is your thing.

Maybe it would be less necessary if one party didn't act like it was entitled to power, that actively tries to undermine voter rights and equal protection under the law.

Take a guess at what happens to countries where a political minority continues to game the system and sideline the majority. The party of gerrymandering has no business commenting on what is proper and fair regarding elections. None. These people work with Russians and known criminals to subvert democracy, that they think they deserve to dictate to the rest of us what democracy is about is equal parts hilarious and disgusting.
 
Last edited:

kohler

Member
Mar 17, 2010
55
1
71
If all the states assigned their electoral votes proportionally based on the popular vote in each state, wouldn't that be the same thing as having a national popular vote, with the electoral college being a more or less useless appendage in the process?

There are good reasons why no state awards their electors proportionally.

Electors are people. They each have one vote. The result would be a very inexact whole number proportional system.

Every voter in every state would not be politically relevant or equal in presidential elections.

It would sharply increases the odds of no candidate getting the majority of electoral votes needed, leading to the selection of the president by the U.S. House of Representatives, regardless of the popular vote anywhere.

It would not accurately reflect the nationwide popular vote;

It would reduce the influence of any state, if not all states adopted.

It would not improve upon the current situation in which four out of five states and four out of five voters in the United States are ignored by presidential campaigns, but instead, would create a very small set of states in which only one electoral vote is in play (while making most states politically irrelevant),

It would not make every vote equal.

It would not guarantee the Presidency to the candidate with the most popular votes in the country.

The National Popular Vote bill is the way to make every person's vote equal and matter to their candidate because it guarantees the majority of Electoral College votes to the candidate who gets the most votes among all 50 states and DC.
 

kohler

Member
Mar 17, 2010
55
1
71
OK, I didn't fully understand how it works. Read up on it more fully. It's an agreement among states to assign their electoral votes to whichever candidate wins the national popular vote. While that may be an easier way than amending the Constitution, it could well lead to states assigning their votes to candidates who lost badly in their states. A constitutional amendment, if possible, would be preferable.

In Gallup polls since 1944 until before this election, only about 20% of the public has supported the current system of awarding all of a state's electoral votes to the presidential candidate who receives the most votes in each separate state (with about 70% opposed and about 10% undecided).

Support for a national popular vote has been strong among Republicans, Democrats, and Independent voters, as well as every demographic group in every state surveyed. In the 41 now shown on divisive maps as red, blue, and purple states surveyed, overall support has been in the 67-81% range - in rural states, in small states, in Southern and border states, in big states, and in other states polled.

In state polls of voters each with a second question that specifically emphasized that their state's electoral votes would be awarded to the winner of the national popular vote in all 50 states, not necessarily their state's winner, there was only a 4-8% decrease of support.

Question 1: "How do you think we should elect the President: Should it be the candidate who gets the most votes in all 50 states, or the current Electoral College system?"

Question 2: "Do you think it more important that a state's electoral votes be cast for the presidential candidate who receives the most popular votes in that state, or is it more important to guarantee that the candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states becomes president?"
 

kohler

Member
Mar 17, 2010
55
1
71
. . . Not sure it would be constitutional to dictate how states assign their electoral votes, and I think they are not going to change one by one. I'm not sure if the idea of states banding together to require electoral college votes for the popular vote winner has legs. Obviously it would work and bypass need for federal/Constitution change.


The National Popular Vote bill would take effect when enacted by states with a majority of the electoral votes—270 of 538.
All of the presidential electors from the enacting states will be supporters of the presidential candidate receiving the most popular votes among all 50 states (and DC)—thereby guaranteeing that candidate with an Electoral College majority.

The bill was approved in 2016 by a unanimous bipartisan House committee vote in both Georgia (16 electoral votes) and Missouri (10).
Since 2006, the bill has passed 36 state legislative chambers in 23 rural, small, medium, large, red, blue, and purple states with 261 electoral votes.
The bill has been enacted by 12 small, medium, and large jurisdictions with 172 electoral votes – 64% of the way to guaranteeing the Electoral College and the presidency to the candidate with the most popular votes in the country

NationalPopularVote.com
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
In other words, just a couple of counties in the nation will elect all future presidents?

The founding fathers never wanted a democracy.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
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In other words, just a couple of counties in the nation will elect all future presidents?

The founding fathers never wanted a democracy.

That’s how it works now, handful of counties decide. Idea is to make one vote equal one vote.

Otherwise how the hell have you been man, haven’t seen you around here in a long time.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,428
11,757
136
I haven’t read all the replies in the thread, so this might have already been covered, but since the electoral college is mandated by the US Constitution, wouldn’t it have to be changed by much more than just a bill in Congress?

How is the Constitution amended?
Article V of the Constitution prescribes how an amendment can become a part of the Constitution. While there are two ways, only one has ever been used. All 27 Amendments have been ratified after two-thirds of the House and Senate approve of the proposal and send it to the states for a vote. Then, three-fourths of the states must affirm the proposed Amendment.
The other method of passing an amendment requires a Constitutional Convention to be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States. That Convention can propose as many amendments as it deems necessary. Those amendments must be approved by three-fourths of the states.
The actual wording of Article V is: “The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.”
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,543
27,851
136
I haven’t read all the replies in the thread, so this might have already been covered, but since the electoral college is mandated by the US Constitution, wouldn’t it have to be changed by much more than just a bill in Congress?
Yes. But there is a way to partially neuter the electoral college without abolishing it. That is to assign electors based on the percentage of the vote each candidate received (proportional representation).

There is also the interstate compact idea of the states agreeing among themselves to award all their delegates to the winner of the national popular vote.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
There is nothing wrong with the electoral system. The easiest fix would be for all the states to eliminate the winner takes all system, because the states imposed that limitation upon themselves. I don’t see CA or TX or NY changing that any time soon.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
There is nothing wrong with the electoral system. The easiest fix would be for all the states to eliminate the winner takes all system, because the states imposed that limitation upon themselves. I don’t see CA or TX or NY changing that any time soon.

There is a problem, within 16 years two candidates won the Presidency without majority support of the voters.
That’s a problem in my book.
 
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