New build

[Miganto]

Hi there, i'm new to the forum, have been reading through it for a few days, and am looking to build a new pc, but would like a few tips, and some questions answered if possible

I'm not looking for a top top of the range pc, but one that'll last me at least 1.5-2 years.

I am a gamer, but i do not have a huge screen. I'll be moving up to a 22.

I'm looking to get;

e8500 (will look around for an E0 revision, as that is best, correct?) (Am looking to OC it to 400mhz fsb [400x9.5 = 3.8GHZ] to be 1:1 with the ram)
(Would like to buy a cooler too to lower case temps and to allow the OC with ease if a good suggestion could be made)

Am only after a dual core for now, i don't think a quad core is for me at this time.

2x2GB of 800Mhz DDR2 ram (Not sure which brand is best, but i have seen some 4-4-4-12 ones, so i'll go for those i think, but the best brand you guys suggest would be nice)

Looking at a 4870 graphics card, but would like some info on which brand would be best, as they seem to differ in price by a large amount.

Sound card will be an x-fi xtreme gamer.

HDD - I barely fill my 30GB one atm, yes 30, not 300, and it's a 10k RPM one. I do need to have a larger one, but i will never need anything over 200GB for this build. Do you guys think it'd be a good idea to get a 10k rpm one, or is there a very good 7200 rpm one that's a lot lot cheaper, even if huge?
The site guide mentions -Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB - as being close to the 10k raptors, which, if so, due to it being a lot cheaper per GB, i'd get that.

OS - Vista 64bit premium (i think premium is best? I dont need anything fancy, i just play games! )

PSU - help please! Not sure how much power i'm using, or what is best to use etc..

Motherboard is the big one that i'm not sure on.

I'm looking to OC the cpu, but not hugely. I'm not looking to OC the memory (if that matters). I would like the option to add a 2nd graphics card, but that won't be for another 10+ months.
I'd like to have the option to expand the memory to 4x2GB for the future 'if' it's not too much of a hassle for the mobo, if it is, it's not a big issue, i'll leave it
I'm not sure exactly what you need to know to help you help me decide. I won't be 'raiding', i need an ethernet for my broadband and 6+ (the more the better) USB ports. I'm not sure what firewire is exactly.

I've seen the ones on the main thread, i 'think' i need to be going for a p45 edition, but i don't need lots of gizmos and additions, only the basics really. I'm sure i'm not being helpful, so i do apologise!


I realise that my gcard is top of the range (nearly) compared to my semi top of the range ram/cpu. For the other parts i'm asking about, i'd like good value for money, but the PSU can be good quality, i'd rather have a good one for a little more money.

P.S, i'm from the UK, so will be buying here, but if that makes it difficult, just do it for the US and i'll try to find the equivilent here.

Thankyou for your help!

 

[aclim]

Well your one point about you saying that the graphics card you picked should last you longer than your other components is false. Graphics cards are always the first that will need an upgrade over any other component in a system. Especially if you are a heavy gamer.

Gskill has nice ram and they have the 4gb 800 kit for $60 i think on the egg.

As far as I know get any brand 4870 1gb card. Diamond seems nice and I think its the cheapest?

That WD6400AAKS is a nice drive. I would go with that.

Vista 64bit premium is a good choice..

For a PSU go with one of the Corsair units. I have the HX620 version and its nice. They are relatively inexpensive and very reliable.

As far as mobo, I like the Asus P5Q Pro. Nice price and stable. And for the CPU, do you want 2 or 4 cores?

Thats all off the top of my head real quick. Hope that helps.

 

[Miganto]

Thanks for the quick reply =)

I've editted that part out now, i guess having the option to get a 2nd card in crossfire would be a good option then. I heard that the p45's change the PCIe from x16 down to 2 x8's, is that bad?

With the motherboards, i was looking at http://www.tomshardware.com/re...-motherboard,2001.html and the MSIp45 platinum board seemed to do well for the cost/options, but i've seen that there are a lot of msi p45 varients, and so i'm rather unsure as to all the fiddly differences.
The platinum is 135 pounds on Overclockers, and the asus pro is 100. Are there many differences between the p5q pro/e/deluxe?

I'm looking to have 2 cores, quad core isn't for me at the moment i think, so core 2 is what i'm after =) (editting my post for that too! )

 

[aclim]

Im not too sure about the MSI boards. I had one a while back for an AMD system and it didnt OC well. If you are planing to OC Id suggest either ASUS or a Gigabyte board from my experience.

Check these 2 boards out:

Gigabyte

Asus

 

[aclim]

Im sorry for posting those US links. Its just to give you an idea of what boards im talking about.

As far as PSU get either one of these 2, just depends on how much power you want and for future upgrades:

Corsair520

Corsair620


For your GPU Powercolor, Diamond and/or MSI seems to be the cheapest here in the US. Any of those would be good. Id go with the one that offers the best warranty

 

[sonnygdude]

Hey, good for you, awesome post. Good detail and it sounds like you've really done your homework.

I like the E8500, it's what I'm running now, so you get one positive vote there.

For RAM, there's a lot of good brands out there, Mushkin, Corsair, but I like the G.Skill I'm using so I'll vote for that

I also vote for the 4870, I got the Visiontek for the lifetime warranty - even if I never need it, it implies some quality, right?

I would hold off on the sound card for now - most of the decent mobos have on-board HD audio, and if you decide it isn't high enough quality you can get a sound card later

For HDD, definitely get the 6400AAKS - more space than you need but much better value. Plus if you ever decide to start storing HD video content, you won't have to go looking for another drive immediately.

For the PSU, I'd suggest either a high quality 550 watt or a 650 watt. I'm running the 4870, 8GB of RAM, and two HDD's on the Corsair 520HX (520 watt), no problems. Corsair makes a slightly less expensive version without modular cables called the 550VX. The next higher models from that manufacturer are the 620HX and the 650TX. They've got a great reputation, and based on my experience I think I've become something of a Corsair pimp

For the mobo, the ASUS P5Q Pro might be exactly what you want. P45 chipset, if you go with the ATI GPU you can crossfire it (at the 8x link allowed nby the P45 chipset), and it has ethernet, 6 USB ports in the back expandable with another two, and a USB header for the front of the case as well for up to 10 total I think. If not, the Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3L seems highly regarded.

I really don't think that the graphics card is that out of balance with the rest of your potential components. It might be a little overkill for the 22" at 1650x whatever, but that might give it a little longevity.

Good luck with your build!

EDIT: Son of a gun aclim, you beat me with three posts before I could finish one. I think I gave him a lot of the same advice too, so now I feel really useless. Thanks a lot

 

[aclim]

LOl its all good man. Can never get enough good advice!

 

[Miganto]

It's fine, i just look at www.overclockers.co.uk and try to find the relevant item =)

Some boards don't seem to be sellable in the UK, so i just check here first, then look around for a good deal, you guys are putting in effort helping me, i don't mind doing a bit of looking around

*Gah stop posting so much helpful info so fast, i can't keep up *

Sound card is about $120 or so, but i will wait and see what the sound is like on these cards i guess. I have the medusa 5.1 headphones, so maybe getting a better SC won't help?

Good idea with the HDD, futureproof! Is the improvement of 10k rpm not worth the cost and loss of space then?

PSU's, i'm completely useless when it comes to these. Will a 520/550 be enough for if i want to add a 2nd 4870? If not, that's ok, as i will only be 'possibly' wanting another one in maybe a year or so. [What are modular cables? Are they all the extra cables that come with it for the system?]

The P5Q looks good, are there many differences between it and the gigabyte one, or the msi one? I'll look at the individual specs if needed, but from the link on my last post, the msi one was slightly ahead. But it was only one sites' tests, so if you guys think otherwise, i'll go that way.

I do think the Gcard is slightly overkill, it was intended to be as i knew that the graphics needs go up faster than the rest of the system, so i was hoping that getting one a bit too much would be good until needing replacing, and having room for a 2nd 'if' new games suddenly ooze extra goodness.

Are there no real differences between the makes of the Gcards? Are the added prices normally just due to added extras? (i've always bought OEM, so have never had 'free' goodies, but don't want to this time) If so, i'll get the best value/highest warrantee one like you said.

Oh, and any tips on a cooler for the CPU? I don't need a hugely amazing super dooper, can freeze ice one, just one that'll allow me to OC to 400MHZ FSB and cool it a bit extra *Again with the efficient value for money*


Edit 2 - You say you run 8GB, would that be stable on most of these 4 ram slot p45's that are being suggested, or only on a few? I've not really looked into 8GB setups, it was just an idea i was thinking of when typing.

Edit 3 - There's a 32MB cache version of the HDD for about $20 more, i've heard that having the extra cache is helpful, and i don't mind paying that premium for it, do you think it's worth it?

 

[aclim]

If you are just gaming 4gb will be fine for you.

As far as the GPU is concerned, just go for the one that offers the best warranty.

For the PSU, pick one of the ones I linked you above. If you dont mind spending a little extra get the 620 one.

Im about to buy the X-FI extremegamer Fatal1ty version. I think it will be worth it. Plus ive read that it is superior for headphone sound.

Def get that WD HDD. From what I have seen it is almost as fast as the Velociraptor drives. You wont notice a difference.

I think you will really like the P5Q PRO.

O and for the CPU cooler this is a nice one, good price/performance:

AC7

 

[sonnygdude]

I don't think the added performance of the 10k HDD is going to offset the value of the WD 640. I'm using a smaller, preivous generation 10k Raptor for my OS drive, and I think the 6400AAKS keeps up with it pretty well

Modular cables are cables that plug into sockets in the PSU, so you only have to use the cables you need and don't have to worry about bundling extra cables out of the way. A nice feature, but you do pay a premium for it.

I don't think a 550 would be enough for two HD4870s, probably would want to bump that to 650-750 to be on the safe side if you think that's a serious possibility in the future. But 1-2 years down the road it might just be a better deal to sell the old card and buy the latest single card available

Seeing as all the ATI cards are essentially the reference design, unless one maunfacturer offers a different cooler or something there's effectively no difference. If you can research it, go with whoever's got better customer support just in case

A possible cooler might be the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro, nothing too special but pretty reasonably priced.

Edit: Dammit aclim, cut it out! :frown:

 

[Miganto]

Cheers for the replies, OC'ers site is not loading atm, so i can't check it out, but the cooler looks good, and both suggested it =)

I'm edditting my previous posts, what do you think about the extra cache HDD? And any reason why the Asus seems to be a favourite of peoples, or is it just good enough that there's no need to look elsewhere?

 

[sonnygdude]

I'm just going to post first to beat aclim, even if I don't say anything...

 

[aclim]

you mean this drive?

click

 

[Miganto]

nope, this one http://www.overclockers.co.uk/...-%20OEM%20(WD6401AALS)

Same as yours but less space, and about 60% of the price. I wish there was a newegg for the UK, their prices are about 30-40% cheaper

 

[sonnygdude]

Originally posted by: Miganto
what do you think about the extra cache HDD?

Which HDD is it? I've read/heard that the WD caviar black drives are way way fast. But you do pay more, I'm not sure if it's a better value than the SE16 6400.

EDIT: for 6 quid (is that the right term?) more that looks like a pretty good buy

From experience and research, ASUS seems to have turned out a really good product with this latest generation, the P5Q P45 boards. They make overclocking really easy and have a rep for stability. The also have some features which are really cool if you like them, and easily disabled/ignored if you don't. they come with Expressgate, which is essentially a mini-OS that allows you to get into a web browser or skype without having to load the OS, and it's handy for quickly checking e-mail and stuff like that if you're the kind of person that powers down your computer. Another nice feature is the BIOS flashing feature, which you can do through the BIOS itself with a USB thumbdrive.

Which brings me to another point: if you do buy the ASUS board, NEVER update the BIOS through the ASUS update utility in the OS. There are just way too many accounts of people bricking their boards that way. The EZ flash with the thumb drive is cleaner and faster anyway

 

[Miganto]

They're the 6401AALS, so pretty much identical barring the 32MB cache i believe. I just saw it, haven't looked into any performance reviews of it, but will do now.

Also, all the Gcards on this site (which is a good site for the UK btw) give 1-2years warranty with one giving a 3 year warranty. Crap huh? Will keep looking around for those too.

Does the USB flashdrive come with the board?


EDIT - Quid, yes The price will be another 5+ on top of that when the deal is off, but i still think it's a good deal

Also, With the new architecture coming out this month/next month, would it be best to wait until just after that to buy these items due to 'probable' price cuts?

Also part 2, i heard that there are good times to buy pc parts due to price deals, when are these times? I'm not sure when manufacturers cut prices, ie before, or after christmas.

 

[sonnygdude]

Originally posted by: Miganto

Does the USB flashdrive come with the board?

Unfortunately not!

Waiting might not be a bad idea, I can't see the prices of any of this stuff going up once i7 hits the streets.

 

[aclim]

No telling when "price cuts" will happen. It all depends on do you need or want this PC now? Or are you wanting to wait? The more you wait, new stuff will come out, then you way want that. If you have the money and need the computer now buy now. Playing the waiting games with tech is crazy because there is something always new out. Plus there is no telling how the release of i7 will dictate the pricing of the 775 stuff.

 

[aigomorla]

2 yr horizon, and i'd push a quadcore on ya.

1 yr possibly dualcore, anything more and the safer route is the quadcore.

 

[PHeller]

I've got the 6400KS and its faster than my 40gb Raptor, plus the Raptor has gotten noisy as well.

Would it be beneficial for a budget build to go with a E5200 now, and then upgrade to a quad once i7 hits the street?

How long is Intel expecting to use the i7 socket?

I could see waiting for it if a low-end processor came in at $200, but I doubt that'll happen. In the meantime I'll just go dual or quad.

 

[Miganto]

@Aclim, the only thing i would wait for would be to see if the new processors cause a price cut with the current dual cores. I personally don't think they will at first, and the cuts will mostly be in the quad core section too, but i'll wait and see.

@Aig, I think that there are so few games now that benefit from 4 cores, that even in the next year, year and a half, there'll not be a huge amount of games that'll benefit enough to warrant the extra cost for the same Hz quad.

@PHeller. So the raptor is pretty much a big no no really then? The i7 will be used until at least next year, possibly another year after that depending on if the die reduction uses a different pin layout. So that's 2 years minimum. I suspect the next gen procs will use a new socket. I also don't really want to spend 60ish pounds now when i will deffo be replacing in a month (either with the e8500 or the i7 if it's cheap, etc)

I was thinking of waiting for the i7, but i do think that the first edition will not be fully optimized and that there'll stick a 30-40% premium on the price just because it's new. I think by the time the 1st or 2nd revision is out with normalized prices, the westmere core will be just about to be released and i'll be waiting for that

Thanks all for your help, still looking for any other suggestions on the board, noone seems to like the MSI one except me, so it seems like i'll go for the asus if noone steps up and suggests the MSI

RAM/CPU/PSU/Gcard/OS/HSink seem to be sorted. I think i might need a new case. If the one on the main build post is good (mid range) i'll take that if you guys agree. Apart from fans [any good ideas for these too?], is there anything else i might need? (i've seen suggestions for the DVD drives etc, i do have one now, but i'll look into getting a new one if they're cheap, but i'm in no rush)

 

[aclim]

What games to you currently play? Is there games out now or that are comming out in the near future that you really wanna play but cant?

Is there work related things that you need your PC to do?

You really need to decide if you need the computer now, or if the current hardware you have now will be sufficient until i7 comes out...

I am waiting for i7 to do my next upgrade. However I would like to upgrade my GPU and soundcard in the meantime.

If you need a PC now, but want i7, I might suggest a lower end Intel cpu/mobo to hold you over for a year, but all the other componets I say get what you want. Get a good PSU/GPU/Soundcard now. As for RAM, it depends, your gonna want DDR3 for i7, so go for the $60 Gskill ram now since it is cheap. Go ahead and get Vista64 now also.

You basically need to decide if you need the computer now or not.

 

[Miganto]

Thing is, if i wait a year for i7, it'll just be a year until the cooler/slightly faster/better OC'ing (presumptions there) westmere come out, and people will say to wait for that too.

My current pc is a 3400athlon xp, with 1GB ram (Had 2, but 2 512s blew), and an ati x800xl. All is well and good, but i can't play most of the games from the past year+ without turning the graphics down low, so i might as well upgrade now that my system is rather poor, rather than semi upgrade, wait a year, then semi upgrade, wait a year..etc.

99% of my time on the pc is gaming or the internet. I sometimes do some office style work, but i think a dual core can handle it

There are a few new titles coming out in the next year, but none have specs yet, but i assume i'll have issues on my current machine due to it not being able to handle the last version of the game.

 

[sonnygdude]

Good logic. Your machine will always be "obsolete" in about a year no matter what you do :shocked: - remember the Simpsons episode where Homer buys a computer? "That technology is three months old. Only suckers buy out-of-date machines. You're not a sucker, are you sir?"

If you're focused mostly on gaming, it seems that i7 won't benefit you much in that regard anyway. From the article here on AT:

"Nehalem is designed to fix Intel?s remaining shortcomings in the server space"

and "If your apps aren?t well threaded, the Nehalem benefit will be limited to the 0 - 15% range compared to Penryn depending on the app."

And finally, from the Aug 19 blog post:
"Nehalem is about improving HPC, Database, and virtualization performance, and much less about gaming performance. Maybe this will change once games get some heavy physics threads, but not right away."

So it seems like the extra cost of the first run X58 mobos and DDR3 memory might not be worth the predicted limited benefit your games would see. Maybe the next cycle on 32nm will have a cache structure more suited to gaming performance

 

[aclim]

Yes, well since We know your current specs and what you really use it for id say buy now!. No doubt buy now.