New CPU and video card, thinking of 3500+ and 6800GT

[Tchami]

Hi,

I'm in the process of figuring out whatI should upgrade to, however I'm extremely confused as to which CPU I should invest in and whether I should upgrade now or wait a few months.

The Athlon 64 3500+ socket 939 seems like a good choice that won't be outdated too soon, however the price is high and as far as I've understood the socket 939 series seem to be quite new. I'm a student so every dime is turned over, so I'd rather avoid buying a CPU now that in a short time will be outdated. However I have no idea whether buying a 3500+ will leave me with an outdated CPU in a few months or not. I read in another thread about a guy who was in doubt whether to buy a 3400 (socket 754) og a 3500+ (socket 939) and he was advised to go for the 3400 and then replace that with a socket 939 when PCI-E becomes available. I don't want to buy one CPU and then replace that, I want a CPU that doesn't become obsolete in the foreseeable future. The PCI-E subject however leads me to my second subject in this post.

I'm planning to also buy a nVidia 6800 GT video card which is, as far as I understand, using AGP. However from what I've read I understand that PCI-E will replace AGP soonish, but does anyone know when that approximately will happen and would it mean a big difference to me (in terms of performance) and thus mean I'd done a bad deal buying the 6800 GT?

Can anyone help me out here?

Best regards, Tchami

 

[Shimmishim]

i guess for you... the 3500+ or a socket 939 chip would be best...

as for pci-e.. it is already available.. it's just that amd chose not to go that route initially...

in q4 '04 / q1 '05, the nforce4 boards are coming out which will be available with pci-e...

but i'm not quite sure the performance difference between a pci-e 6800gt vs. an agp 6800gt is...

maybe someone else could address this issue

 

[Tiamat]

All depends on how much of a stickler for performance you are. Im running a system with a Radeon 8500 and am doing fine. I didnt get into Farcry or Doom III so the age of my graphics card hasnt been made blaringly obvious to me. My brother is still using an Athlon 850 and is doing fine - its showing its age, but its not decreped (sp?).

The Tbred-b core is at least 2 years old, and its suiting me perfectly fine.

Basically, if you are an avid gamer who intends to play games on the league of Farcry, DoomIII, HL2, etc., and/or do a lot of 3D animation; you are looking to be on a constant 9-12month upgrade path.

However, if you play games occasionally, dont mind taking resolution off of 1600x1200, and do little to no 3d animation, any path you take right now would probably end up satisfying you for 1.5-2+ years.

As far as PCI-E vs AGP, i believe i read that AGP is still slightly faster at this very moment. In the next product cycle, that could change, however.

 

[Tchami]

Thanks for the answers.

I have settled on the 3500+

 

[TimTheEnchanter25]

I'm in the same boat as you. I want a 3500+ and a 6800GT, I just don't know if I can wait for Nforce4. I hate to get stuck with an AGP card knowing that I wouldn't be able to stick it in a future mobo. Plus it would suck to have a 6800GT and miss out on SLI.

But, if HL2 ever comes out, I don't know if I can sit around and wait for the new chipset. I've seen anywhere from Sept-Feb for Nforce4 to be in stores.

PCI-E should be faster than AGP at least when you combine a Nforce4 board with a Nvidia card.

 

[Yanagi]

PCI-E doesnt seem to offer any reeally advantages as of now. I'll hold on to my current crappy rig until mid 05 or so. By then .09 chips have matured and next gen cards should've announced and be ready to pre order/buy alternatively buying a 6800gt and settle for that

 

[Gamingphreek]

I would definately wait. Nforce 4 is right around the corner along with all its cool features. Also AMD 90nm process chips just hitting retail. Also they are qorking on using SOI strained silicon so definately wait until everything is on the table.

-Kevin

 

[darXoul]

I wouldn't wait. In fact, I won't - because I ordered my case and PSU and once they arrive next week, I'm buying a new system. Most likely based on socket 754. If you want to wait for nForce4, it's your choice but you might wait forever since there is always something new and potentially beneficial just around the corner. I'm probably getting A64 3400+ and Leadtek 6800 GT. It will be a great rig sufficient for solid gaming until my next big upgrade, in ca. 2 years. I don't think waiting for wide availability of socket 939 boards and possibly nForce4 makes sense, but that's just me. I simply don't believe in socket 939 upgradeability unless you really want to wait a few more months... but then something new will come again, guaranteed.

Besides, AMD's spokesman Sam Rogan has already mentioned a 900 pin socket "coming 2005" as a new base for transition to DDR2 and dual core CPUs. I wonder why no one mentions it on the boards. Socket 939 might be significantly less future-proof than many of us hope.

 

[Brickster]

Originally posted by: Tchami
Thanks for the answers.

I have settled on the 3500+

Good choice :thumbsup:

 

[Tchami]

darXoul ->
I came to the same conclusion about waiting, it'd never stop.

Brickster ->
I hope so All I need to find out now is what mobo to buy (Asus A8V or MSI NEO2 Plat) and what brand of GT to buy (not a whole lot available in Denmark I'm afraid :/). But I've started separate topics on this.

 

[Brickster]

Originally posted by: Tchami
Brickster ->
I hope so All I need to find out now is what mobo to buy (Asus A8V or MSI NEO2 Plat) and what brand of GT to buy (not a whole lot available in Denmark I'm afraid :/). But I've started separate topics on this.

No worries mate, the 3500+ is the best bang for the buck (upgrade potential considered). I did a lot of research in trying to find out what was the best option to go with.

Here is one link to a thread with much discussion:

LINK

It all depends on what your needs are. If you want to overclock and game a ton and all that good stuff, you want to chose a motherboard that overclocks well, get some high-quality/higher-speed memory, and then take all things into consideration.

I bought the 3500+ because it was socket 939, and there will be CPU's released on the 939 platform in the foreseeable future. For socket 754, the line is dead. Is it a great value? Well absolutely, right NOW it is. For me, the minimal premium for 939 was a no brainer since I want the ability to go to a faster CPU in about 2 years. And right now, I don't think there is a price premium for 939 any longer.

If you want to overclock, I would recommend the MSI K8N Neo2 or the Gigabyte GA-K8NSNXP-939. The MSI board won the Editor's Choice award according to Anandtech. Also, if you OC, go with OCZ 3700 EB memory, or Corsair XMS series (3200XL or higher). Keep in mind that if you go with the 3500+, and you want to OC, the upper multipliers are locked on this chip, so you must overclock your memory and system bus to acheive a higher CPU clock - that is where the OCZ3700 RAM comes into play.

If you do not overclock, and you do not need to, your system will be super duper for a long time if you do typical tasks such as MS Word, email, internet surfing, simple games, etc.

If you play top of the line games, such as FarCry, Doom3, etc., and want to keep that up, well, then you know your system life is about 2 years anyway, based on your video card and CPU. More so with the Vid Card than the CPU in this case.

That being said, the best 6800 GT is, bar-none, the BFG 6800GT OC. It is faster than a speeding bullet out of the box, and overclocks to a stable 430/1100 (way above Ultra speeds) with coolbits w/o artifacts as I have heard on this forum.

If you can find this card in retail, go with it. Contact BFG directly and see if they have a reseller in Europe...I think they have one in UK and one in the Netherlands. They are good people.

This may be WAY too much information, but your system longevity will depend fully on what you use it for.

Take care, and good luck!

Cheers,

 

[Tchami]

Originally posted by: Brickster

No worries mate, the 3500+ is the best bang for the buck (upgrade potential considered). I did a lot of research in trying to find out what was the best option to go with.

Here is one link to a thread with much discussion:

LINK

Excellent thread! Thanks for the link

It all depends on what your needs are. If you want to overclock and game a ton and all that good stuff, you want to chose a motherboard that overclocks well, get some high-quality/higher-speed memory, and then take all things into consideration.

I'm not sure I want to overclock, but I do want to game and I think that buying a nVidia chipset based mobo along with a nVidia 6800GT should mean better performance than a VIA chipset mobo paired with a nVidia graphics card. That's my biggest incentive going for MSI NEO2, but I'm a little concerned about how stable it is.

I bought the 3500+ because it was socket 939, and there will be CPU's released on the 939 platform in the foreseeable future. For socket 754, the line is dead. Is it a great value? Well absolutely, right NOW it is. For me, the minimal premium for 939 was a no brainer since I want the ability to go to a faster CPU in about 2 years. And right now, I don't think there is a price premium for 939 any longer.

My thought exactly.

If you want to overclock, I would recommend the MSI K8N Neo2 or the Gigabyte GA-K8NSNXP-939. The MSI board won the Editor's Choice award according to Anandtech. Also, if you OC, go with OCZ 3700 EB memory, or Corsair XMS series (3200XL or higher). Keep in mind that if you go with the 3500+, and you want to OC, the upper multipliers are locked on this chip, so you must overclock your memory and system bus to acheive a higher CPU clock - that is where the OCZ3700 RAM comes into play.

Well, to start off with I don't want to overclock but I might think of doing it later on so I'm going for PC3200 RAM for a starters but whether I should go for the Asus A8V Rev2 or the MSI NEO2 Plat mobo (I also heard talk of a mobo called DFI) is my big problem.

If you do not overclock, and you do not need to, your system will be super duper for a long time if you do typical tasks such as MS Word, email, internet surfing, simple games, etc.

If you play top of the line games, such as FarCry, Doom3, etc., and want to keep that up, well, then you know your system life is about 2 years anyway, based on your video card and CPU. More so with the Vid Card than the CPU in this case.

I belong in the second group and I know I have to upgrade in 2 years anyway, but that's fine with me.

That being said, the best 6800 GT is, bar-none, the BFG 6800GT OC. It is faster than a speeding bullet out of the box, and overclocks to a stable 430/1100 (way above Ultra speeds) with coolbits w/o artifacts as I have heard on this forum.

If you can find this card in retail, go with it. Contact BFG directly and see if they have a reseller in Europe...I think they have one in UK and one in the Netherlands. They are good people.

Hmm, to answer this I need to show what I'm planning to buy:

Athlon 64 3500+
Mobo: Unknown so far
Graphics card: Unknown so far, but a nVidia 6800GT
Zalman Reserator 1 plus a waterblock for the graphics card (I'm scared of noise )
2 x GeIL Golden Dragon PC3200 CL2 512 MB
Cooler Master Stacker STC-101
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS
Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 200GB SATA

As I've already mentioned a couple of times I don't plan to overclock either the CPU or graphics card right away, but it might happen at some point. So what would make most point would probably be to go for the MSI NEO2 + BFG 6800GT OC as you mentions, but I'm a bit afraid of how stable the MSI NEO2 mobo is and BFG isn't available in Denmark afaik. I'll try to see if they have any europe resellers though with a fair price, but if they don't what do you belive would be my best buy? I've got these to chose from in Denmark:

AOpen Aeolus 6800GT-DV256

Club-3D GeForce 6800 GT

Leadtek WinFast A400 GT TDH

MSI NX6800GT-TD256

XFX Geforce 6800 GT

Point of View GeForce 6800 GT

SPARKLE SP AG40GPT

CHAINTECH NVIDIA GEFORCE 6800GT

This may be WAY too much information, but your system longevity will depend fully on what you use it for.

Take care, and good luck!

Excellent information and thanks a lot for your answers (I hope you might be able to provide me with a few more )!

Best regards, Tchami

 

[Brickster]

Originally posted by: Tchami

I belong in the second group [gamer] and I know I have to upgrade in 2 years anyway, but that's fine with me.

That being said, the best 6800 GT is, bar-none, the BFG 6800GT OC. It is faster than a speeding bullet out of the box, and overclocks to a stable 430/1100 (way above Ultra speeds) with coolbits w/o artifacts as I have heard on this forum.

If you can find this card in retail, go with it. Contact BFG directly and see if they have a reseller in Europe...I think they have one in UK and one in the Netherlands. They are good people.

Hmm, to answer this I need to show what I'm planning to buy:

Mobo: Unknown so far
Graphics card: Unknown so far, but a nVidia 6800GT

As I've already mentioned a couple of times I don't plan to overclock either the CPU or graphics card right away, but it might happen at some point. So what would make most point would probably be to go for the MSI NEO2 + BFG 6800GT OC as you mentions, but I'm a bit afraid of how stable the MSI NEO2 mobo is and BFG isn't available in Denmark afaik. I'll try to see if they have any europe resellers though with a fair price, but if they don't what do you belive would be my best buy? I've got these to chose from in Denmark:

AOpen Aeolus 6800GT-DV256

Club-3D GeForce 6800 GT

Leadtek WinFast A400 GT TDH

MSI NX6800GT-TD256

XFX Geforce 6800 GT

Point of View GeForce 6800 GT

SPARKLE SP AG40GPT

CHAINTECH NVIDIA GEFORCE 6800GT


Excellent information and thanks a lot for your answers (I hope you might be able to provide me with a few more )!

Best regards, Tchami

Okay dude, if all those are available, I wouldn't go out of your way to get the BFG since you can OC it to BFG levels quite easily without any problems or artifacts.

Go for Leadtek, XFX, or Chaintech, or eVGA if you can find it.

eVGA review
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/evga_geforce_6800gt/index.shtml">http://www.nvnews.net/revie......6800gt/index.shtml</a>">http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/...rce_6800gt/index.shtml</a>

Words on the XFX
http://forums.extremeoverclock...howthread.php?t=118897
Ultra review linked from their website, looks good.

Is the Chaintech the "APOGEE AA6800"? They have a version of the APOGEE OCed out of the box like the BFG, details below:
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.chaintechusa.com/tw/eng/news/2004/news_show0710.asp">http://www.chaintechusa.com....../news_show0710.asp</a>">http://www.chaintechusa.com/tw...2004/news_show0710.asp</a>
THis one has a super kick-a*s software bundle, too.

Check with the seller. Some of these companies have tried to follow BFG's lead and OC out of the box, so you don't have to do anything, just plug and frag! Check with them on the GPU clock. Standard for the GT is 350 Mhz. BFG is 370Mhz. Keep asking, and also search the 'Net for as many reviews as possible - everyone does a FarCry benchmark, so you can compare those and go with the highest one.

Just make sure they have a good warranty. BFG is lifetime.

Not too tough of a call since all the GT's are awesome!

Good luck...
Brick

 

[Tchami]

First of all, thank you so much for answering.

This is the Chaintech http://makeashorterlink.com/?E11524F29 card that's available. I'm not sure if it's the APOGEE AA6800 or not, but maybe you're able to?

eVGA is unfortunately not available in Denmark :/

I haven't heard of XFX before but they seem to be good.

However, the Leadtek one seems to be really good as well and it comes with a decent software bundle as well. It's taking up two slots though, but if I'm going to install a Zalman Reserator 1 along with a VGA waterblock I guess that'll mean that only 1 slot is required.

Also, in another thread here at Anandtech http://makeashorterlink.com/?P12523F29 I've been recommended the Gainward Golden Sample, do you have any experience with that?

I think I'll go for Leadtek, BFG or Gainward and install Zalmans ZM-GWB1 http://makeashorterlink.com/?I13524F29. That should allow me to OC the card + keep it quiet and relatively cool don't you think?

EDIT: Links messed up
EDIT #2: Links still messing up
EDIT #3: Gave up on the links

 

[ZoNtO]

All I know is that I'm running a 3200+ A64 on a 754 board with an AGP PNY Verto 6800 GT @ Ultra speeds and the machine smokes. It's really kind of up to you what to do with regards to upgradability, but I'm satisfied with my rig for now. Just for benchmarking sake, here's some numbers from my last tests all at stock CPU speed and 400/1100 on the GT:

3DMark '03: 11895
Doom III Timedemo1 @ 1024x768 with 4x AA and 8x AF (with config optimizations): First run - 45.5 Second Run 48.5

With going the 939 route, it might be worth it to just use your current system with an AGP 6800GT and then maybe upgrade your proc and board when one comes out that has PCI-E. I got the CompUSA TAP warranty on my 6800 card, so when it fries I can just take it back and get a brand new card most likely a PCI-E since it will be close to 2 years from now. Think about doing that, they do have deals where they give you a copy of Doom III for free with a 6800GT purchase (couple weeks ago at least, I did it). Anywho, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) but AMD plans on using 939 for the foreseeable future, so getting any board right now with that socket would only suffer from the inevitable chipset upgrades like nForce4, VIA KT 9 million or whatever else, but the socket will stay the same. Think of how long our Bartons and Thouroughbreds lasted!

Good luck with your next system man, and as always with any system build, check out tweak guides XP Guide - from Reformat to Relax and do those optimizations with Cacheman, etc.. that he talks about. They ad even more pep to an already peppy system, and you can't go wrong with a 20ms delay on your start menu!

Peace

 

[PhoenixOrion]

Originally posted by: Tchami
Thanks for the answers.

I have settled on the 3500+

Your 939 mobo should have good cpu upgrade path for the next few years. Good choice.

 

[Brickster]

Originally posted by: ZoNtO

...I got the CompUSA TAP warranty on my 6800 card, so when it fries I can just take it back and get a brand new card most likely a PCI-E since it will be close to 2 years from now. Think about doing that, they do have deals where they give you a copy of Doom III for free with a 6800GT purchase (couple weeks ago at least, I did it)...

Unfortunately (or fortunately from his perspective), dude does not live in the USA - he is Danish.

Yeah, I do hear all of those GT's OC really, really well. Warranty is definitely KEY.

 

[Tchami]

I have pretty much decided for the Leadtek. I'm thinking of removing the fan and install a Zalamn ZM-GWB1 (http://www.zalmanusa.com/usa/p...sp?idx=90&amp;code=013) along with a Reserator 1 (http://www.zalmanusa.com/usa/p...sp?idx=63&amp;code=021).

I hope that'll silence it more or less completely and that it'll provide enough cooling for OCing the card to Ultra speeds. Or am I wrong?

 

[Viditor]

AMD's spokesman Sam Rogan has already mentioned a 900 pin socket "coming 2005" as a new base for transition to DDR2 and dual core CPUs. I wonder why no one mentions it on the boards. Socket 939 might be significantly less future-proof than many of us hope

Mainly because they have already shown that it will be 939 and 940 pin for dual core, and they have stated that it will be the same for DDR2. I would bet that someone "misheard" Mr. Rogan...

 

[Jeff7181]

I'll be waiting for the first refresh of the NV40 and R420 before I upgrade from my 9800 Pro... unless of course I get a job at a computer store I'm hoping for, in which case I'll be able to get a 6800 GT at cost, which should be just over $300.

I'm also waiting for 90nm Athlon-64's. My ~2.5 GHz Barton should hold me over for another 6 months at least.

 

[Brickster]

Originally posted by: Viditor

AMD's spokesman Sam Rogan has already mentioned a 900 pin socket "coming 2005" as a new base for transition to DDR2 and dual core CPUs. I wonder why no one mentions it on the boards. Socket 939 might be significantly less future-proof than many of us hope

Mainly because they have already shown that it will be 939 and 940 pin for dual core, and they have stated that it will be the same for DDR2. I would bet that someone "misheard" Mr. Rogan...

You have a link to that conversation?

Sounds interesting, but even if true, I don't expect anything to show up until mid 2006. It's the old "marketing BS rule of thumb" = take whatever they say and add a year. Then give it another 3-6 months for it to be widely available in retail.

Nobody is going to deny 939 will last forever, but guranteed that it will last a good time, and all that one can hope for is that a few CPU revisions will be made, and we should all be able to get some fast chips for our old boards in a couple years at a decent price. Again, that is the hope.

But, nothing is a guaratee....especially future platform speculation by all parties. Even AMD will probably change their mind a couple of times until a decision is made on "what the future holds".

Peace!

 

[Brickster]

Originally posted by: Tchami
I have pretty much decided for the Leadtek. I'm thinking of removing the fan and install a Zalamn ZM-GWB1 (http://www.zalmanusa.com/usa/p...sp?idx=90&amp;code=013) along with a Reserator 1 (http://www.zalmanusa.com/usa/p...sp?idx=63&amp;code=021).

I hope that'll silence it more or less completely and that it'll provide enough cooling for OCing the card to Ultra speeds. Or am I wrong?

Good choice on the Leadtek, and yes, you should be able to OC the hell out of that card with your water cooling. Should be able to surpass 6800 Ultra-Extreme clock.

And, you're welcome on the responses, Tchami. I am happy to help and pass on knowledge I have learned from other members on this forum. Just remember to always take advice with a grain of salt, do a lot of research, and you will come out on top (usually)

Take care brother,

 

[Tchami]

That sounds good. I was a little worried about the GWB1 since the nvidia cards seems to develop more heat than ATIs and all tests I've seen of the GWB were, as mentioned earlier, on ATI boards

But I hope you're right

I'm always doing some research before asking questions, and when I get some answers I start investegating those too

 

[jose]

Wait for the Nforce4 mobo's which will come soon &amp; get a pci-e 6800GT.
Do a search on Nforce4..

Regards,
Jose

 

[Brickster]

Originally posted by: jose
Wait for the Nforce4 mobo's which will come soon &amp; get a pci-e 6800GT.
Do a search on Nforce4..

Regards,
Jose

The waiting game is a whole other thread topic...