New evidence: CIA and MI6 were told before invasion that Iraq had no active WMD

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
File this under "I'm so shocked I could just shit!". Or not.

Fresh evidence is revealed today about how MI6 and the CIA were told through secret channels by Saddam Hussein’s foreign minister and his head of intelligence that Iraq had no active weapons of mass destruction.

Tony Blair told parliament before the war that intelligence showed Iraq’s nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons programme was “active”, “growing” and “up and running”.


A special BBC Panorama programme tonight will reveal how British and US intelligence agencies were informed by top sources months before the invasion that Iraq had no active WMD programme, and that the information was not passed to subsequent inquiries.

It describes how Naji Sabri, Saddam’s foreign minister, told the CIA’s station chief in Paris at the time, Bill Murray, through an intermediary that Iraq had “virtually nothing” in terms of WMD.

Sabri said in a statement that the Panorama story was “totally fabricated”.

However, Panorama confirms that three months before the war an MI6 officer met Iraq’s head of intelligence, Tahir Habbush al-Tikriti, who also said that Saddam had no active WMD. The meeting in the Jordanian capital, Amman, took place days before the British government published its now widely discredited Iraqi weapons dossier in September 2002.

Lord Butler, the former cabinet secretary who led an inquiry into the use of intelligence in the runup to the invasion of Iraq, tells the programme that he was not told about Sabri’s comments, and that he should have been.

Butler says of the use of intelligence: “There were ways in which people were misled or misled themselves at all stages.”

When it was suggested to him that the body that probably felt most misled of all was the British public, Butler replied: “Yes, I think they’re, they’re, they got every reason think that.”

The programme shows how the then chief of MI6, Sir Richard Dearlove, responded to information from Iraqi sources later acknowledged to be unreliable.

One unidentified MI6 officer has told the Chilcot inquiry that at one stage information was “being torn off the teleprinter and rushed across to Number 10″.

Another said it was “wishful thinking… [that] promised the crock of gold at the end of the rainbow”.

The programme says that MI6 stood by claims that Iraq was buying uranium from Niger, though these were dismissed by other intelligence agencies, including the French.

It also shows how claims by Iraqis were treated seriously by elements in MI6 and the CIA even after they were exposed as fabricated including claims, notably about alleged mobile biological warfare containers, made by Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi, a German source codenamed Curveball. He admitted to the Guardian in 2011 that all the information he gave to the west was fabricated.

Panorama says it asked for an interview with Blair but he said he was “too busy”.

Not meaning to beat this horse again. But for those that are still hanging on to any fantasy that the leaders of two of the most powerful countries the world has known were still justified in killing tens of thousands of Iraqis along with thousands of their own citizens, you really need to stop drinking the kool-aid.

Forgot the link:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/...-before-invasion-that-iraq-had-no-active-wmd/
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,324
15,123
136
File this under "I'm so shocked I could just shit!". Or not.



Not meaning to beat this horse again. But for those that are still hanging on to any fantasy that the leaders of two of the most powerful countries the world has known were still justified in killing tens of thousands of Iraqis along with thousands of their own citizens, you really need to stop drinking the kool-aid.

Forgot the link:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/...-before-invasion-that-iraq-had-no-active-wmd/




I do wish justice would be brought upon those involved but sadly that will never happen and the Iraq mess will be a stain on America that will darken over time as more information comes out.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,282
28,141
136
Didn't Sir Mitts-A-Lott just say at CPAC we went to war in Iraq for liberation??

Damn these guys can't even come to terms with reality
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
This is old news.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11927856/

from 2006

In September 2002, at a meeting of the U.N.’s General Assembly, Sabri came to New York to represent Saddam. In front of the assembled diplomats, he read a letter from the Iraqi leader. "The United States administration is acting on behalf of Zionism," he said. He announced that there were no weapons of mass destruction and that the U.S. planned war in Iraq because it wanted the country’s oil.

But on that very trip, there was also a secret contact made. The contact was brokered by the French intelligence service, sources say. Intelligence sources say that in a New York hotel room, CIA officers met with an intermediary who represented Sabri. All discussions between Sabri and the CIA were conducted through a "cutout," or third party. Through the intermediary, intelligence sources say, the CIA paid Sabri more than $100,000 in what was, essentially, "good-faith money." And for his part, Sabri, again through the intermediary, relayed information about Saddam’s actual capabilities.

Even if Saddam did have them at the time his foreign minister is not going to rat out Saddam. Paying him $100K is not going change his tune.

Did rawstory.com finally read the memo from 2006?
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
And yet those complicit in leading the US to war on these false pretenses are not held accountable.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
I wonder if not the proper course of action, in response to not finding WMDs... after how long? Would be to impeach the President. I wonder if that is what we should have done.

There should be consequences for being wrong, and not just shelving the invasion of Iran.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,633
5,320
136
Am I missing something? As I read that, the entire story is based off of the testimony of Naji Sabri. Are we just granting that said gentlemen's testimony is beyond reproach?
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Obviously the head of the Iraqi intelligence service would never try to spread false information to potential enemies...NO intelligence service would EVER do such a thing! Even contemplating it would make any intelligence officer start shaking and resign immediately...
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
This is old news.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11927856/

from 2006



Even if Saddam did have them at the time his foreign minister is not going to rat out Saddam. Paying him $100K is not going change his tune.

Did rawstory.com finally read the memo from 2006?

So it's old news that is true, but the GOP still won't admit it? You don't see anything wrong with that?

And you bailed on the ACORN thread, you never did come up with any reason or evidence that supported your BS that Sproul's company is better then ACORN. I wonder why? Shouldn't you be trying to find actual facts to support your position, instead of just making shit up and then bailing out of the thread? Typical.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Why do people still act like this is such a binary question? It could be true both that Iraq had nuclear, biological, or chemical (NBC) agents but also lacked the capability to produce them on a large scale or get them to the US via a reliable delivery system. There's a lot of nuance involved which both sides seem to miss in rushing to form judgments and cast blame.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
So it's old news that is true, but the GOP still won't admit it? You don't see anything wrong with that?

And you bailed on the ACORN thread, you never did come up with any reason or evidence that supported your BS that Sproul's company is better then ACORN. I wonder why? Shouldn't you be trying to find actual facts to support your position, instead of just making shit up and then bailing out of the thread? Typical.

Because I got accused of everything under the sun including being a racist just because I didn't think Sproul was as bad as Acorn. Your debating skills are that of a 3 year old. I bail on threads when they bore me. Speaking of debating like a 3 year old, why is it the GOP's fault to admint Bush lied?
 

sixone

Lifer
May 3, 2004
25,162
4
61
Well, duh...of COURSE Iraq's foreign minister and head of intelligence were going to claim there were no WMD's. They were under UN sanctions at the time, and more were being threatened.

Why would anyone in their right mind take their word for it?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
File this under "I'm so shocked I could just shit!". Or not.
-snip-

I'm going with the "or not" option.

So Saddam's jerking around the inspectors, but we're supposed to take his word when he claims through representatives that he has no WMD. Geez, why did the UN even bother with inspectors? "Saddam says he has none?" "OK, wrap it up, we're done here".

If I read the below correctly the source for story is denying it:

Sabri said in a statement that the Panorama story was “totally fabricated”.

Fern
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Why do people still act like this is such a binary question? It could be true both that Iraq had nuclear, biological, or chemical (NBC) agents but also lacked the capability to produce them on a large scale or get them to the US via a reliable delivery system. There's a lot of nuance involved which both sides seem to miss in rushing to form judgments and cast blame.

Hans Blix found unreported WMDs in Iraq mere months prior to the invasion. He listed it in his report to the UN. You are also correct in that they did not have an active program and did not have a way to get anything to the US even though they had some WMDs still.

EDIT: Support for statement

Hans Blix reported to the UN that he found 12 (16 if you count the 4 declared later) undeclared weapons which were designed to carry nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons:

88. The discovery by UNMOVIC of twelve 122 mm chemical warheads and rocket
motors in mid-January 2003 at the Ukhaidar ammunitions depot led to an Iraqi
declaration regarding four additional warheads at Al Taji a few days later.
http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/new/documents/quarterly_reports/s-2003-580.pdf

US Law says weapons which were designed to carry nuclear, chemical, or biological agents are considered WMDs, regardless of them having a payload or not:

What are Weapons of Mass Destruction?
Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) are defined in US law (18 USC §2332a) as:
“(A) any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this title (i.e. explosive device);
(B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors;
(C) any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector (as those terms are defined in section 178 of this title)(D) any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life.”
WMD is often referred to by the collection of modalities that make up the set of weapons: chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, and explosive (CBRNE). These are weapons that have a relatively large-scale impact on people, property, and/or infrastructure.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism/wmd/wmd_faqs

This means that the undeclared items found by Hans Blix are considered WMDs by the United States.
 
Last edited:

Theb

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
3,533
9
76
That sucks but at least our troops were greeted with flowers and candy and the war was fast and cheap.
 
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