WTF are you talking about? Sex = Naughty is pretty much official policy for both Catholics and Baptists. You guys are just latching onto this Harvard study because it happens to back your position, not because you give a rat's ass about Africa. Again, I'd appreciate if you could actually produce this study for me so I could read it instead of the zillions of christian websites wetting themselves over it.And you finish with another unsupported negative stereotype. Baptist and Catholics don't care about AIDS in Africa, we just want to stop people from having sex.
Your whole argument is "I don't agree with you, so whatever you say is outrageous crap. And, by the way, I know that you are full of hate too."
If you read any of my posts, you'd know; early recognition and adoption of a multi-level approach (not primarily ab-only) and siginificant government involvement.Why is Uganda faring so much better than it's neighbors who have done the things you advocate?
My point was that some Christians are willfully ingnorant about certain things in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. As such, they draw fire along the lines of this movie (even though none of us have seen it). If anyone's proving points, it's you.You have proven my point very well. Thanks.
That is far from a stereotype; it's the Official Word of both groups. Baptists and Catholics don't want you having sex unless it's for procreation so they've latched onto this study (which you still haven't produced) since it appears to support their position.
U.S. AIDS Czar Speaks Out on Abstinence and HIV/AIDS
U.S. Global AIDS Coordinator Randall Tobias has strongly
defended the use of abstinence programs to prevent the
spread of HIV/AIDS in Africa.
In a news conference last week before a trip to Africa,
Tobias said that encouraging teenagers to postpone
becoming sexually active and to promote monogamy is far
better than just distributing condoms.
"(Condoms have) been the principal prevention device for
the last 20 years," Tobias said. "And I think one needs
only to look at what's happening with the infection rates
in the world to recognize that has not been working."
The U.S. approach to helping stop the spread of HIV/AIDS
in Africa is based on the successful Uganda model, which
emphasizes abstinence to young people and monogamy among
married couples.
"The message to young people in the schools is not either,
'Be abstinent' or 'Here are condoms,' take your pick."
Tobias said. "It is a message of 'Be abstinent.' Delaying
sexual activity is a means of eliminating the risk of
infection."
While in Africa, Tobias will tour Ethiopia, South Africa
and Mozambique to review U.S. HIV/AIDS efforts there.
Originally posted by: Xionide
Great, a movie about christians I will actually watch.
-Xionide
Is there a companion book called Intended for Hellfire and Eternal Damnation: Sex Technique for Godless Unmarried Sinners Who Will Burn for All Eternity?Originally posted by: JupiterJones
That is far from a stereotype; it's the Official Word of both groups. Baptists and Catholics don't want you having sex unless it's for procreation so they've latched onto this study (which you still haven't produced) since it appears to support their position.
Here is an example of willful ignorance. Baptist do not believe that sex is only for procreation. For a more detailed explanation see Intended for Pleasure: Sex Technique and Sexual Fulfillment in Christian Marriage.
You might be getting your theology from Monty Python.
ABC Study: The Role of Behavioral Change in HIV/AIDS Epidemics in Developing Countries
Country/Countries:
Kenya, Uganda, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Cameroon, Thailand
Principal Investigator:
Edward Green, Senior Research Scientist
Department:
Department of Population and International Health
Sponsor(s):
USAID, Population Services International
Dates of Research:
July 01, 2002 - August 31, 2003
Other Harvard Researchers Involved:
Vinand M. Nantulya, Yaa P.A. Oppong
Description:
A research project based at the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies in Cambridge to identify and analyze the impact of the three primary behavioral changes, ABSTINENCE/delay of sexual debut, BEING FAITHFUL/partner reduction, and CONDOM USE, on HIV prevalence in six countries. The study's activities and results are expected to affect USAID's strategies and priorities in AIDS prevention, which in turn could influence the activities of UNAIDS and other donors in global HIV/AIDS research and prevention.
Originally posted by: Mwilding
When are these F-tards going to learn that the best way to make an offensive movie go away is to ignore it and let its own awfulness kill it in the box office...
Originally posted by: JupiterJones
Hey Fausto
Here's a bit more info on AIDS in Africa.
U.S. AIDS Czar Speaks Out on Abstinence and HIV/AIDS
U.S. Global AIDS Coordinator Randall Tobias has strongly
defended the use of abstinence programs to prevent the
spread of HIV/AIDS in Africa.
In a news conference last week before a trip to Africa,
Tobias said that encouraging teenagers to postpone
becoming sexually active and to promote monogamy is far
better than just distributing condoms.
"(Condoms have) been the principal prevention device for
the last 20 years," Tobias said. "And I think one needs
only to look at what's happening with the infection rates
in the world to recognize that has not been working."
The U.S. approach to helping stop the spread of HIV/AIDS
in Africa is based on the successful Uganda model, which
emphasizes abstinence to young people and monogamy among
married couples.
"The message to young people in the schools is not either,
'Be abstinent' or 'Here are condoms,' take your pick."
Tobias said. "It is a message of 'Be abstinent.' Delaying
sexual activity is a means of eliminating the risk of
infection."
While in Africa, Tobias will tour Ethiopia, South Africa
and Mozambique to review U.S. HIV/AIDS efforts there.
:roll:Program in Uganda, Africa
source: family.org
As for the controversy caused by the Bush administration's emphasis on abstinence in AIDS prevention, Tobias said Uganda has shown that programs encouraging abstinence can have a powerful effect at preventing AIDS. This African nation once had one of the highest rates of HIV infection; over the past decade, according to a study in Science last week, HIV rates have declined by 70 percent.
"Uganda showed you can reverse the trend," agreed Dr. Bill Foege, former director of the U.S. Centers for Disease and Control and Prevention and now a global health adviser to the Seattle-based Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.
But Foege and others noted that Uganda succeeded not just from encouraging sexual abstinence but also from a complex network of efforts that included frankly stated safe-sex education and condom distribution as well as high-profile political leadership.
The approach in Uganda is often referred to as the ABC approach -- for first encouraging Abstinence; secondly, advising those who are sexually active to Be faithful to a single partner; and, especially if you're promiscuous, always use a Condom. Tobias said this is, in fact, the model for the administration and that critics are distorting their views.
Again, WTF are you talking about? Bush has made it clear that abstinence-only is what he wants. What else is his appointee going to say? I've already told you why the Uganda thing worked, it sure as sh*t isn't primarily because of the emphasis on abstinence.Originally posted by: JupiterJones
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: JupiterJones
Hey Fausto
Here's a bit more info on AIDS in Africa.
U.S. AIDS Czar Speaks Out on Abstinence and HIV/AIDS
U.S. Global AIDS Coordinator Randall Tobias has strongly
defended the use of abstinence programs to prevent the
spread of HIV/AIDS in Africa.
In a news conference last week before a trip to Africa,
Tobias said that encouraging teenagers to postpone
becoming sexually active and to promote monogamy is far
better than just distributing condoms.
"(Condoms have) been the principal prevention device for
the last 20 years," Tobias said. "And I think one needs
only to look at what's happening with the infection rates
in the world to recognize that has not been working."
The U.S. approach to helping stop the spread of HIV/AIDS
in Africa is based on the successful Uganda model, which
emphasizes abstinence to young people and monogamy among
married couples.
"The message to young people in the schools is not either,
'Be abstinent' or 'Here are condoms,' take your pick."
Tobias said. "It is a message of 'Be abstinent.' Delaying
sexual activity is a means of eliminating the risk of
infection."
While in Africa, Tobias will tour Ethiopia, South Africa
and Mozambique to review U.S. HIV/AIDS efforts there.:roll:Program in Uganda, Africa
source: family.org
Randall Tobias is a Bush appointee, so of course he's going to pimp abstinence.
It is very hypocritical for you to accuse anyone of willful ignorance.
Jup
Originally posted by: Fausto
Again, WTF are you talking about? Bush has made it clear that abstinence-only is what he wants. What else is his appointee going to say? I've already told you why the Uganda thing worked, it sure as sh*t isn't primarily because of the emphasis on abstinence.Originally posted by: JupiterJones
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: JupiterJones
Hey Fausto
Here's a bit more info on AIDS in Africa.
U.S. AIDS Czar Speaks Out on Abstinence and HIV/AIDS
U.S. Global AIDS Coordinator Randall Tobias has strongly
defended the use of abstinence programs to prevent the
spread of HIV/AIDS in Africa.
In a news conference last week before a trip to Africa,
Tobias said that encouraging teenagers to postpone
becoming sexually active and to promote monogamy is far
better than just distributing condoms.
"(Condoms have) been the principal prevention device for
the last 20 years," Tobias said. "And I think one needs
only to look at what's happening with the infection rates
in the world to recognize that has not been working."
The U.S. approach to helping stop the spread of HIV/AIDS
in Africa is based on the successful Uganda model, which
emphasizes abstinence to young people and monogamy among
married couples.
"The message to young people in the schools is not either,
'Be abstinent' or 'Here are condoms,' take your pick."
Tobias said. "It is a message of 'Be abstinent.' Delaying
sexual activity is a means of eliminating the risk of
infection."
While in Africa, Tobias will tour Ethiopia, South Africa
and Mozambique to review U.S. HIV/AIDS efforts there.:roll:Program in Uganda, Africa
source: family.org
Randall Tobias is a Bush appointee, so of course he's going to pimp abstinence.
It is very hypocritical for you to accuse anyone of willful ignorance.
Jup
ABC Study: The Role of Behavioral Change in HIV/AIDS Epidemics in Developing Countries
A research project based at the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies in Cambridge to identify and analyze the impact of the three primary behavioral changes, ABSTINENCE/delay of sexual debut, BEING FAITHFUL/partner reduction, and CONDOM USE, on HIV prevalence in six countries. The study's activities and results are expected to affect USAID's strategies and priorities in AIDS prevention, which in turn could influence the activities of UNAIDS and other donors in global HIV/AIDS research and prevention.
Uh, no it's not and I already told you why Uganda worked. You have ONE study claiming otherwise and I have the rest of the world's scientific community disagreeing with you. You continuing to cling to this ridiculous notion just backs my original assertion that some Christians say/do ridiculous things that set them up to be ridiculed. You need to either open your mind or quit crying about it.Originally posted by: JupiterJones
Originally posted by: Fausto
Again, WTF are you talking about? Bush has made it clear that abstinence-only is what he wants. What else is his appointee going to say? I've already told you why the Uganda thing worked, it sure as sh*t isn't primarily because of the emphasis on abstinence.Originally posted by: JupiterJones
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: JupiterJones
Hey Fausto
Here's a bit more info on AIDS in Africa.
U.S. AIDS Czar Speaks Out on Abstinence and HIV/AIDS
U.S. Global AIDS Coordinator Randall Tobias has strongly
defended the use of abstinence programs to prevent the
spread of HIV/AIDS in Africa.
In a news conference last week before a trip to Africa,
Tobias said that encouraging teenagers to postpone
becoming sexually active and to promote monogamy is far
better than just distributing condoms.
"(Condoms have) been the principal prevention device for
the last 20 years," Tobias said. "And I think one needs
only to look at what's happening with the infection rates
in the world to recognize that has not been working."
The U.S. approach to helping stop the spread of HIV/AIDS
in Africa is based on the successful Uganda model, which
emphasizes abstinence to young people and monogamy among
married couples.
"The message to young people in the schools is not either,
'Be abstinent' or 'Here are condoms,' take your pick."
Tobias said. "It is a message of 'Be abstinent.' Delaying
sexual activity is a means of eliminating the risk of
infection."
While in Africa, Tobias will tour Ethiopia, South Africa
and Mozambique to review U.S. HIV/AIDS efforts there.:roll:Program in Uganda, Africa
source: family.org
Randall Tobias is a Bush appointee, so of course he's going to pimp abstinence.
It is very hypocritical for you to accuse anyone of willful ignorance.
Jup
Abstinance (the A in ABC) is the difference between the programs that work and those that don't. Wake up!.
Jup
I guess my point is that being married shouldn't make a whit of difference as to the acceptibiliity of sex in the eyes of the church. It's all pretty much OT to the Uganda discussion, which is rapidly becoming OT to the OP anyway.Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Fausto
Having been raised in baptist churches, I think I'm qualified to speak here whereas you obviously are not.
I was never subjected to any "sex is only for procreation" or "sex is naughty" teaching. In fact, I was taught just the opposite. Sex was portrayed as something that was fun, healthy, and necessary for a proper married relationship.
The one thing you may have legitimate gripe about is the sex outside of marriage issue. IMHO too much emphasis is put on that, possibly to the detriment of the above message on sex.
AIDS is a disease last I checked and the abstinence-only policy doesn't work. My relative lack of churchiness notwithstanding.Until you've experienced it first hand (and in a broad enough range to be a legitimate sample of churches/teachings), I would suggest you stick to bikes & diseases.
Viper GTS
Originally posted by: Fausto
I guess my point is that being married shouldn't make a whit of difference as to the acceptibiliity of sex in the eyes of the church. It's all pretty much OT to the Uganda discussion, which is rapidly becoming OT to the OP anyway.Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Fausto
Having been raised in baptist churches, I think I'm qualified to speak here whereas you obviously are not.
I was never subjected to any "sex is only for procreation" or "sex is naughty" teaching. In fact, I was taught just the opposite. Sex was portrayed as something that was fun, healthy, and necessary for a proper married relationship.
The one thing you may have legitimate gripe about is the sex outside of marriage issue. IMHO too much emphasis is put on that, possibly to the detriment of the above message on sex.
AIDS is a disease last I checked and the abstinence-only policy doesn't work. My relative lack of churchiness notwithstanding.Until you've experienced it first hand (and in a broad enough range to be a legitimate sample of churches/teachings), I would suggest you stick to bikes & diseases.
Viper GTS
Hey, you're the "adult" who's made a career of trolling ATOT. :roll:Originally posted by: JupiterJones
Hey Fausto,
I appreciate the vulgarity via private message and then you refusing to hear my response. What are you, 13 years old?
That's not what we were discussing. The SBC says the primary focus should be abstinence, the Bush admin says the same. Ab-only doesn't work. Uganda did work because it was the multi-level approach and because it had major gov involvement. Which is what I've been saying all along. Which is what you're apparently now agreeing with....or something.Why don't you read the study? The whole point here is that with this study in the picture, it isn't outrageous to believe that abstinance and monogamy prevent the spread of AIDS. And since it has now been demonstrated that abstinance and monogamy along with condoms prevent AIDS better than condoms alone, it is only smart to go with what works.
Jup
Eh...I suppose, but that wasn't even the point. My point is that "Xtreme Christians" like the OP and others invite mockery through their actions which may or may not be the point of the film in question. Since none of us have seen it, this is all essentially moot.Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Originally posted by: Fausto
I guess my point is that being married shouldn't make a whit of difference as to the acceptibiliity of sex in the eyes of the church. It's all pretty much OT to the Uganda discussion, which is rapidly becoming OT to the OP anyway.Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Fausto
Having been raised in baptist churches, I think I'm qualified to speak here whereas you obviously are not.
I was never subjected to any "sex is only for procreation" or "sex is naughty" teaching. In fact, I was taught just the opposite. Sex was portrayed as something that was fun, healthy, and necessary for a proper married relationship.
The one thing you may have legitimate gripe about is the sex outside of marriage issue. IMHO too much emphasis is put on that, possibly to the detriment of the above message on sex.
AIDS is a disease last I checked and the abstinence-only policy doesn't work. My relative lack of churchiness notwithstanding.Until you've experienced it first hand (and in a broad enough range to be a legitimate sample of churches/teachings), I would suggest you stick to bikes & diseases.
Viper GTS
I did not mention AIDS at all in my post, I'm not going to touch that one.
My point was that while I would consider you an expert on diseases, and probably bikes, your knowledge of the Baptist church is severely lacking.
Viper GTS