New Gaming Build - Advice Needed

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E6BAV8R

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Sep 12, 2011
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1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

Gaming and Work

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

$500-$600

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

USA

4. IF you're buying parts OUTSIDE the US, please post a link to the vendor you'll be buying from.
We can't be expected to scour the internet on your behalf, chasing down deals in your specific country... Again, help us, help YOU.

5. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.

Intel i5; Nvidia;

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

I will use my current HDD, PSU, Case and Win 7 x64

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

I will overclock slightly. I hope to push the i5 into the low 4.0GHz area.

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using?

1920 x 1080

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?

Within the next few days.

Hello,

I am building a new gaming rig, primarily for Flight Simulator X which is highly CPU intensive, and I am not sure which path to take. I do plan on doing some light overclocking but nothing too substantial (hoping to hit low 4 GHz area). Effectively, I am split between the tried-and-trusted i5 3570K and its' OC'ing capabilities and the new Haswell systems.

I will be using my existing HDD in my current systems and Win7 x64, so these are this is the hardware I am deciding between to purchase:

i5 3570K System:

i5 4670K System:
Separately between the CPUs, the 3570K system is cheaper and I am able to fit a GTX 660 into my budget with that system. If I go with the 4670K Harswell I have to downgrade to the 650TI, so that may factor into the decision as well. Both of these systems are already over my budget so I don't want to spend any more

The two separate system price difference is small enough that I don't mind paying if it will give me equal (or better, of course) performance and some comfort in future upgrade-ability. Even though the 3570K may OC slightly better (which I'm not a hardcore OC'er that will push the limits, anyway) it kinda irks me to purchase a dead-end socket that may give me nothing in terms of performance. The more stringest standards that seems to come with OC'ing the Harswell also scares me slightly.

There you have it! Any suggestions on hardware choice within the systems, opinions, etc. are more than welcome.
 
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Essence_of_War

Platinum Member
Feb 21, 2013
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I'd go with the haswell chip.

What exactly is your budget, and which exact parts do you need, though?
 
E

E6BAV8R

Member
Sep 12, 2011
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My budget was $500 but it quickly exceeded that. Each system above is sitting around $650.

The parts I have listed above are the parts that I need. If parts aren't listed above than I will just be porting them over from my current PC (HDD, PSU, and Case).
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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I would go with Haswell. At 4GHz, it's close to a 4.4GHz 3570K. I'd guess both are equally difficult to hit - actually, the 3570K@4.4 is probably harder to get. But yes, a 4670K@4.4 is very unlikely.

I don't believe FSX needs much GPU at all - so trading down to the 650 Ti Boost won't even be noticeable.
 
E

E6BAV8R

Member
Sep 12, 2011
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Thanks for the replies.

Since people are asking, here is the hardware I will be using from my current PC:

Whilst I did have a budget of $500 (and quickly exceeded it ) I don't mind paying it as long at will give me the performance or future updatability that I am looking for. I just don't want to look back 6 months from now and wish I had spent the extra $50 to get a significantly better component (e.g. the GTX 650TI BOOST to the GTX 660 or the 3570K to the 4670K).


If you're working on a budget, you're going to have to make sacrifices. RAM is what I'd sacrifice here. Get a pair of RAM for ~$60, such as this from Best Buy: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/PNY+-+XL...&CJPID=3938566
Click to expand...
I was looking at getting more "budget" RAM but I have read that the OC'd Haswell doesn't like it. Any truth to that? If in doubt I'd rather spend the extra $20 for something I know that will be good.


I'm also leaning more towards the Haswell set-up at this point. It is just hard for me to purchase a dead-end socket just to save $50, and of course there are no guarantees either way, but all we can do is make the most logical choice.


Thanks for the replies.
 
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E

E6BAV8R

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Sep 12, 2011
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BTRY B 529th FA BN said:
Can you sell anything off at a later time to help absorb the cost if you went with the 4670K & the GTX 660?
Click to expand...

Well, I'd like to think so but I'm not sure if they'd be worth any value. I could also build another PC but I really don't have use for another.

The items I could sell out of my current PC would be:

Do you think any of those items would be worth selling?
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
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The Pentium can certainly be resold. Some past Ebay sales have a final price range of about $40-$60. Although, if you use Amazon or Ebay, you will have to pay the respective companies a commission, thus reducing the money you actually receive. But yes, there is a market for the CPU. Classifieds lets you skip the comissions, but you need to be more vigilant in finding a buyer.

RAM prices have been increasing, so you probably could sell that RAM pair for ~$30.

The mobo and GPU can be sold too, as there always will be those who don't mind buying used to save a few bucks, although packaging a mobo for shipping does require a little care if you don't have the original box.
 
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E6BAV8R

Member
Sep 12, 2011
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Torn Mind said:
The Pentium can certainly be resold. Some past Ebay sales have a final price range of about $40-$60. Although, if you use Amazon or Ebay, you will have to pay the respective companies a commission, thus reducing the money you actually receive. But yes, there is a market for the CPU. Classifieds lets you skip the comissions, but you need to be more vigilant in finding a buyer.

RAM prices have been increasing, so you probably could sell that RAM pair for ~$30.

The mobo and GPU can be sold too, as there always will be those who don't mind buying used to save a few bucks, although packaging a mobo for shipping does require a little care if you don't have the original box.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll decide something to do with it - either part it out or build a 2nd PC - once I get my new rig up and running.
 
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E6BAV8R

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Sep 12, 2011
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I believe I have decided to go ahead and go forward with the Haswell set-up. This is the hardware I have come up with so I welcome comments on the specific hardware. The hardware has already exceeded my budget so I can't go more expensive, but I can plug and play some items if there is better components for the equivalent price. I'll be using the HDD, PSU and Case from my existing PC. I'm hoping to hit in the low 4 GHz range after some slight overclocking. I also decided to go ahead and bump up to the GTX 660, as I feel like I may regret it down the road if I don't. Total is right at $699.


Existing parts I will use from my current PC:

I decided to hold off on an aftermarket CPU cooler until I get to the overclocking point and see if it is needed. I've seen benchmarks of the Harswell 4670K and was running 4.1 - 4.2 GHz with normal temps on the stock heatsink. If I need it I'll pick one up but I don't intend on pushing any limits.

Any final thoughts are welcome!
 

BTRY B 529th FA BN

Lifer
Nov 26, 2005
15,110
316
126
E6BAV8R said:
I believe I have decided to go ahead and go forward with the Haswell set-up. This is the hardware I have come up with so I welcome comments on the specific hardware. The hardware has already exceeded my budget so I can't go more expensive, but I can plug and play some items if there is better components for the equivalent price. I'll be using the HDD, PSU and Case from my existing PC. I'm hoping to hit in the low 4 GHz range after some slight overclocking. I also decided to go ahead and bump up to the GTX 660, as I feel like I may regret it down the road if I don't. Total is right at $699.


Existing parts I will use from my current PC:

I decided to hold off on an aftermarket CPU cooler until I get to the overclocking point and see if it is needed. I've seen benchmarks of the Harswell 4670K and was running 4.1 - 4.2 GHz with normal temps on the stock heatsink. If I need it I'll pick one up but I don't intend on pushing any limits.

Any final thoughts are welcome!
Click to expand...

You can easily get 100$ for the other parts if you sell them
 
E

E6BAV8R

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Sep 12, 2011
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Torn Mind said:
It seems that the faster you clock RAM, the worse you can overclock. So, getting fast RAM won't apparently help you since you will lower the speed in order to get a higher overclock.

http://www.overclockers.com/3step-guide-to-overclock-intel-haswell
Click to expand...

It's an invariable relationship. Sure, I can lower RAM timings and drive a higher overclock. However, I am now losing out on RAM speed. So now I have a higher CPU speed but lower RAM speed - what is the end result in performance? There is a magical point to lower RAM speed, driving a higher OC, and getting a net gain in performance. Driving either CPU speed too high (at the loss of RAM speed) or vice-versa will give you a loss in net performance. Unfortunately the Haswell hasn't been out long enough for any benchmarks to pinpoint what that magical relationship is yet.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
The proper term is inverse relationship. One variable increases in value, the other goes down. Invarible means never-changing.

Faster memory speed helps data get to the CPU faster and vice versa. But a higher overclock makes the CPU do its calculation faster, assuming that stability is maintained. These days, the memory bandwidth is high enough that increasing gives a mere droplet of extra performance for the cost. Whereas CPU overclocking gives a slightly more substantial gain. The point in which memory bandwidth actually harms CPU performance would require a severe drop in frequency, if you ever get to the point of dropping RAM frequency before Haswell hits its limits.

The PNY RAM I link to was 1866 Mhz RAM; the "budget" options are 1600 Mhz and $55 or less. Hardly xlow in its own right. But it saves you $25, while in itself is insufficient to get you the GTX 660 you want, gets you $25 less over budget.

And here is a 2133 Mhz kit for $65. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...D=3938566&SID=
 

Sazuzaki

Senior member
Jul 11, 2013
313
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hmm, what PSU do you have? just wanna know how much watts it can put out. so you can adjust your build to it.
 
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mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
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E6BAV8R said:
Click to expand...

The general idea is good, but can do a lot better on your specific component choices:

- GPU: Expensive for a GTX 660. An ASUS with their DirectCU cooler is $190AR .
- CPU/Mobo: You can combo the i5 4670K with the Z87-A (plenty of mobo for your uses) for $330 AP
- RAM: Super fast RAM does not make a difference unless you run SuperPi for fun. Some plain old DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 is perfect for you at $48.

All told, that $568 AR AP for parts that will end up giving you the same performance.
 
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E6BAV8R

Member
Sep 12, 2011
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mfenn said:
The general idea is good, but can do a lot better on your specific component choices:

- GPU: Expensive for a GTX 660. An ASUS with their DirectCU cooler is $190AR .
- CPU/Mobo: You can combo the i5 4670K with the Z87-A (plenty of mobo for your uses) for $330 AP
- RAM: Super fast RAM does not make a difference unless you run SuperPi for fun. Some plain old DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24 is perfect for you at $48.

All told, that $568 AR AP for parts that will end up giving you the same performance.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

I'm intrigued by the Asus Z87-A, as I had the Deluxe. I was simply under the impression not to go "bottom of the barrel" on the motherboard I was going to OC on, but not that I was going to push any limits. It also appears that the -A has had some BIOS issues lately, and that Asus has been pushing lots of BIOS updates out. Hopefully none of them are major.

It also appears that the Z87-Plus has a better heatsink and cooling than the -A. Do you think this will be an issue in OC'ing the Haswell to the 4.0 range?

On the Z87-A QVL for Memory, it appears the G.Skill 8 GB (2x 4GB) sticks isn't on the QVL list for the board. I know that means it hasn't been tested but do you feel it would still work? Reviews on Newegg for the board were saying their RAM wasn't listed in the QVL list and they were having problems with the board recognizing it. Additionally, neither is my PSU. Interestingly enough Asus has neither my PSU or RAM listed but both the G.Skill confiscator and Cooler Master say both of my products will work with it. Any thoughts there?

I'm really interested in this combo now though, so thanks.
 
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mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
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E6BAV8R said:
I'm intrigued by the Asus Z87-A, as I had the Deluxe. I was simply under the impression not to go "bottom of the barrel" on the motherboard I was going to OC on, but not that I was going to push any limits. It also appears that the -A has had some BIOS issues lately, and that Asus has been pushing lots of BIOS updates out. Hopefully none of them are major.
Click to expand...

There is nothing "bottom of the barrel" about a $150 motherboard. That's squarely in the midrange. All ASUS Lynx Point chipsets use the same basic BIOS with minor tweaks on a per board basis. There are no major bug differences; if you take a look at the download page, you'll see that the same version comes out on the same date across their whole Lynx Point line.

E6BAV8R said:
It also appears that the Z87-Plus has a better heatsink and cooling than the -A. Do you think this will be an issue in OC'ing the Haswell to the 4.0 range?
Click to expand...

Intel has moved another large chunk of functionality (voltage regulation) onto the die itself, so motherboard cooling matter less than it ever has. 4.0 GHz is also a minor overclock for Haswell (just 200 Mhz above max turbo).

E6BAV8R said:
On the Z87-A QVL for Memory, it appears the G.Skill 8 GB (2x 4GB) sticks isn't on the QVL list for the board. I know that means it hasn't been tested but do you feel it would still work? Reviews on Newegg for the board were saying their RAM wasn't listed in the QVL list and they were having problems with the board recognizing it. Additionally, neither is my PSU. Interestingly enough Asus has neither my PSU or RAM listed but both the G.Skill confiscator and Cooler Master say both of my products will work with it. Any thoughts there?
Click to expand...

A QVL is simply the list of products that a manufacturer has tested to work. It is not an exhaustive list of all products that will work. Standard DDR3 should all work. That being said, fancy RAM has less of a chance to work out of the box than standard RAM.

It's kind of a moot point though, because you should not be paying $85 for 8GB of DDR3. Get the standard DDR3 1600 that I recommended.

You do have an older PSU, so it could in theory have issues with Haswell's very low idle power draw. However, you have a discrete GPU, so that'll draw enough power to avoid any issues IMHO.

I guess the overall theme here is that you can stay well under your budget if you avoid being swayed by marketing fluff and instead focus on parts that are good values.
 
E

E6BAV8R

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Sep 12, 2011
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Understood. Thanks.

Another quick question:

Do you think it'd be worth it to spend more on an SSD, to be used strictly for installing games, or use that money and get a better video card?
 
M

mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
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It doesn't look like you have an SSD at all, so from a general performance point of view I'd definitely grab a Samsung 840 120GB.

You can fit a decent number of games on there as long as you move your media over to the HDD. I'm currently at 121GB used and have Dota 2 (6GB), Far Cry 3 (11.1GB), Strike Suit Zero (2.6GB), Tomb Raider (10.5GB), Wargame: AirLand Battle (11.6GB), and a bunch of smaller indie games installed.
 
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E6BAV8R

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Sep 12, 2011
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Correct - I have no SSD. My main HDD is my WD 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache. You believe it is worth the money over a better GPU? In retrospect, I am going to be buying another HDD anyway; as I am going to give my current PC to my parents and I want 2 HDD for my personal use.

FSX uses a ton of space so that'll be primary #1 on the HDD. If it gets low than I can install other, less important games on my main HDD. The only other games I have is League of Legends and BF3.

My GPU is now my main point of contention - I'm not sure if it'll be enough or if an SSD would be more worthwhile.
 
M

mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
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The GTX 660 is enough for games like FSX and LoL. FSX will definitely benefit from faster loading speeds on the SSD.

That being said, the main driver for an SSD decision is overall performance. Since you use this system as your "daily driver" (read work and general usage), it is a no brainer choice IMHO. If this were a strictly gaming only system (like if you had a Macbook or something that you used for everything else), then the balance would shift to the GPU.
 
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