New Gaming PC for XMas: Help me build please

[vel]

Hello Everyone,

You all helped me w/ great info from reviews and such on this site when I built my last PC.

Here's what I have: AMD 939 Socket Sandy (yeah feels ancient, ain't it?) on DFI Lanparty SLI Mobo with 2x 7900GTs and RAID0 setup with 2x 10k Raptors driving a 24 inch Dell Monitor. I have a PC Power & Cooling's 510 AT PSU. Do I need to upgrade this? It is the rock-solid PSU I ever owned. All this is housed inside a Coolermaster Stacker 830 NVIDIA Edition Case.

Here's what I intend to do...after much reading and seeing the real drop in FPS in GW and AION, I have decided to either upgrade the CPU, Mobo, RAM and GPU or upgrade just the GPU to see how things play out.

What would you suggest I do? Buy 2 GPUs first and hook them up w/ SLi to see if they fix the framerate drop or just upgrade the whole kit and caboodle? For either path, what components would you suggest? For whole upgrade I am thinking of 1 grand mark. I am open about Phenom or i7.

Also, I am wondering if there is a way to utilize the 2x7900GTs that I already have?

I am looking about your suggestions and guidance. Any help is much appreciated.

EDIT: Based on everyone's suggestions, here's what I will probably get in couple months time:

PSU: OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ700MXSP 700W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC PSU (newegg) @70

CPU: Core i7 920 Processor w/ D0 Stepping (SLBEJ) (Microcenter) @200

MOBO: ASRock X58 Extreme LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard (newegg) @160

RAM: Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Triple Channel) Triple Channel (newegg) @140

GPU: XFX HD-587A-ZNF9 Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity (newegg) @390

Sink: Prolimatech - Megahalems CPU Cooler - 775 / 1366 / 1156 - Rev B (Jabtech) @63

Thanks!

 

[aigomorla]

whatever new gen videocard u get will be limited by your cpu.

Yes your cpu is that old.

I can see you recycling everything but possibly the power supply.

Reason i say that is because if u go dual video cards again, you will need at least a 600W, 750W is more prefered with multi gpu setups.

Seeing how your board is old, you will need to replace most of your core hardware.

I would keep your raptors, case.. i would look for motherboard, cpu, ram, gpu + psu. so basically an entirely new computer.


I personally would grab an i7 with a 920 D0, and overclock it., I would also try to get 2 x 5850's and xfire them or a single 5870 and grab another in the future,
seeing how your on a 24inch monitor with a native resolution of 1920x1200.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

^Pretty much. Plan on getting a new CPU, motherboard, RAM, video card, and PSU. Everything else can be reused, although I think you should also consider getting a new hard drive. I'm assuming you have some the first Raptors, the 74GB or 36GB ones. Newer, larger hard drives should offer performance close to them, and they are now relatively cheap.

You should just try to sell your two 7900GTs. Otherwise the only other good use I can think is to use them in spare computers or as a failsafe.

If you plan to go multi-GPU with some of the high end cards out now, then you'll definitely need a new power supply. But if you go single GPU, you should probably be OK with your current PSU. And you could just upgrade this later if you want to do more.

 

[heyheybooboo]

I7 would be a waste.


Snag a Phenom 720BE / Gigabyte GA-MA790FXT-UD5P AM3 790FX combo for $279.

Thrown in 4Gb of Crucial DDR 1333 for $80.

Resist the urge to buy 2 Radeon HD 5850s ---- :laugh:

 

[aigomorla]

his budget is 1k.

why are u picking out a much inferior system when his budget supports it?

Also a X58 handles multi gpu's better then amd's do.

If he doesnt want to go x58 route, then even then, a i5 would be well within his budget.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
his budget is 1k.

why are u picking out a much inferior system when his budget supports it?

Also a X58 handles multi gpu's better then amd's do.

If he doesnt want to go x58 route, then even then, a i5 would be well within his budget.

Inferior my ass.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: aigomorla
his budget is 1k.

why are u picking out a much inferior system when his budget supports it?

Also a X58 handles multi gpu's better then amd's do.

If he doesnt want to go x58 route, then even then, a i5 would be well within his budget.

Inferior my ass.

So your saying an AMD 720BE.. not even a 965 is not inferior to a 920 D0?

...

Your almost as funny as that MadDoctor.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: aigomorla
his budget is 1k.

why are u picking out a much inferior system when his budget supports it?

Also a X58 handles multi gpu's better then amd's do.

If he doesnt want to go x58 route, then even then, a i5 would be well within his budget.

Inferior my ass.

Not only are you totally wrong with that statement, it borders on a personal insult. Please justify that with a link to a benchmark, unless you want to take on the whole forum.

 

[vel]

Guys thanks for your inputs. Please don't unsheath your swords yet. I am wondering what type of setups I will be looking at if I go w/ i7 or 955/965 route? Can you please give me some setups? I heard its preferable to go w/ i7 instead of i5 considering future upgrade ops. Then again Phenom setups are cheaper as well. More than cost I am looking at long-term viability. I also want to try out this Xfire thing but, I don't exactly know which company sells good ATI cards. I always bought NVIDIA Cards from EVGA. So, can you suggest some? Some newegg links will be very helpful. As I am in MD, we have a microcenter here as well. I noticed they have i7s at $199 whereas newegg is selling for $279. What's the catch there?? Thanks again for your help!

 

[Gikaseixas]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: aigomorla
his budget is 1k.

why are u picking out a much inferior system when his budget supports it?

Also a X58 handles multi gpu's better then amd's do.

If he doesnt want to go x58 route, then even then, a i5 would be well within his budget.

Inferior my ass.

So your saying an AMD 720BE.. not even a 965 is not inferior to a 920 D0?

...

Your almost as funny as that MadDoctor.

LOL calm down guys, i think heyheybooboo didn't like your wording that's all. Inferior is not the right word, slower would be better in this case.

@ the op, if your budget is 1K please get something that will last you a little longer because you seem to keep your setups a bit longer than most people here.

With that said an i5 750, a decent MB with SLI/Crossfire capabilities and 2x ATI 5850 would be a great system

 

[robertk2012]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: aigomorla
his budget is 1k.

why are u picking out a much inferior system when his budget supports it?

Also a X58 handles multi gpu's better then amd's do.

If he doesnt want to go x58 route, then even then, a i5 would be well within his budget.

Inferior my ass.

Not only are you totally wrong with that statement, it borders on a personal insult. Please justify that with a link to a benchmark, unless you want to take on the whole forum.

I find it funny that you only ask one to provide benchmarks.

Just because a budget is 1k doesnt mean you need to spend that amount.

 

[v8envy]

If you have a microcenter then it's a no brainer. The $150 i5 750 is the best value out there. The i7 860 is definitely not a bad buy either. You'd be paying more for a 965BE to get comprable game performance best case and not quite so comprable worst. As far as the $280 combo for a 720... You should be able to get a comprable gigabyte board and i5 750 at microcenter for a similar price ($110 board + $150 cpu + tax).

Saying a Phenom II 720 *TRIPLE CORE* is not inferior to an i5 750 especially considering the power savings and single core turbo mode of the i5 *QUAD CORE* is completely unreasonable. Look at the signatures of enthusiasts here. If a PII 720 was just as good as a i7 920 or 860 or even i5 750 (and by extension every Phenom quad) why on earth would so many of us have dropped another $100-500 for a quad?

XFX is up there with EVGA for customer service when it comes to ATI cards.

 

[v8envy]

Here's some reading for the OP:

http://www.hardocp.com/article..._gameplay_cpu_scaling/

Overall, the Phenom II X3 720 BE did trail in every game, achieving the lowest framerates in games. But only in one game did we feel this was actually very noticeable due to the nature of its lesser triple-core.

And this was from a review in March of this year.

There are reviews on the net comparing the i7 860 and i5 750 with the 920. In general the 860 (and sometime i5) have a slight advantage until both are overclocked, in which case they perform nearly in lockstep at similar frequencies. The i5 falls behind in a very small number of titles, but not by much.

You can see that even in current demanding games a dual core starts holding back a 4890 GPU. Sure, there are some which are so GPU limited that your CPU doesn't matter -- yet. With the advent of 5-series GPUs from ATI and the trend of newer games to expect multiple CPU cores you'll see ever increasing differences between a dual and a quad. This exactly how the single vs dual core played out in late 2006.

Two 8x PCIe lanes vs two 16x of the X58 may even matter in the very near future.

 

[aigomorla]

Dude guys his budget is 1k.
Not 500, or 600, or 750.
Its a Solid budget for a good priced well built system.

He looks like the type that doesn't upgrade for a while either.
He wants flexibility of BOTH SLI and Xfire.
And you guys are still recomending him an AMD?

And since when did AMD class compare against a 3.8-4.0ghz i7?

Because you know once he overclocks, the 920 will get higher clocks, and those clocks i listed are almost gaurentee'd clocks, with an aftermarket sink.

Dont need the extra cores?
Fine, then single core clock speed is more important correct?
You want dual cores clocked at the highest possible speed in games, because video cards scale better with faster processors and more bandwith to pci-e...

So what do you think will clock better then? An AMD? or a i7 920 D0?

*sigh*

Okey im done... .
OP, you can listen to who you chose... but let me finish with this comment.

People upgrade from PHII -> i7 people will have no comment.
If you go from i7 -> PHII (non TWKR) people will go WTF.
You look at AMD when the word budget fits in your catigory. (sub 1k)
You get an i7 when you want the BEST.

And my word inferior.. why is it wrong?
The AMD 720BE cpu is inferior to the i7 920 D0. <-- how is this wrong?
Am i wrong? Its not just slower, which you think clock speed.
Its significantly slower in things like encoding, and when games become more multi threaded optimized, your only gonna see that gap grow bigger.

So what is wrong with my wording inferior? Throw a TWKR, and i'll change my wording.
Or even a 955/965.

But bringing a 720BE out against a 920, all i have to say is ROFLMAO.

Its like me saying hey i'll race my Nissan 370Z (920) against your Toyota Corolla (720BE).
Guarantee you the slaughter will be equivalent once the 920 is overclocked.

 

[marsspirit123]

He is building gaming computer for a $1000.Can you show us some review with like 20 games that proves your point for games at res 1920x1080 ?I know I7 is better in most of the aplications , however games seems very close.
I mean amd 955 for $180 + motherboard for $110. I7 920 is $218(at mc uncluding sales taxes) + at least $170 for motherboard.Then triple chanel memory is like $20 more than dual isn't it?
So you have $118 extra for video card in $1000 budget .
I don't want to start a war or something here ,however do you think that I7 with 285 will beat amd 955 with 295 in games ?Or I7 with 5850 will beat amd955 with 5870 in games ? I would love to see some review for that.

Originally posted by: aigomorla
Dude guys his budget is 1k.
Not 500, or 600, or 750.
Its a Solid budget for a good priced well built system.

He looks like the type that doesn't upgrade for a while either.
He wants flexibility of BOTH SLI and Xfire.
And you guys are still recomending him an AMD?

And since when did AMD class compare against a 3.8-4.0ghz i7?

Because you know once he overclocks, the 920 will get higher clocks, and those clocks i listed are almost gaurentee'd clocks, with an aftermarket sink.

Dont need the extra cores?
Fine, then single core clock speed is more important correct?
You want dual cores clocked at the highest possible speed in games, because video cards scale better with faster processors and more bandwith to pci-e...

So what do you think will clock better then? An AMD? or a i7 920 D0?

*sigh*

Okey im done... .
OP, you can listen to who you chose... but let me finish with this comment.

People upgrade from PHII -> i7 people will have no comment.
If you go from i7 -> PHII (non TWKR) people will go WTF.
You look at AMD when the word budget fits in your catigory. (sub 1k)
You get an i7 when you want the BEST.

And my word inferior.. why is it wrong?
The AMD 720BE cpu is inferior to the i7 920 D0. <-- how is this wrong?
Am i wrong? Its not just slower, which you think clock speed.
Its significantly slower in things like encoding, and when games become more multi threaded optimized, your only gonna see that gap grow bigger.

So what is wrong with my wording inferior? Throw a TWKR, and i'll change my wording.
Or even a 955/965.

But bringing a 720BE out against a 920, all i have to say is ROFLMAO.

Its like me saying hey i'll race my Nissan 370Z (920) against your Toyota Corolla (720BE).
Guarantee you the slaughter will be equivalent once the 920 is overclocked.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: marsspirit123

I don't want to start a war or something here ,however do you think that I7 with 285 will beat amd 955 with 295 in games ?Or I7 with 5850 will beat amd955 with 5870 in games ? I would love to see some review for that.

In this config the gpu wins..

But forward a year, to 2 yrs, when games get better written, id think the cpu with more threads would win.

But had he picked out a 955 or a 965 i wouldnt of complained as much.

Its the 730BE that got to me.

 

[v8envy]

So, the most pertinent point: if you have a tight budget, go for GPU over CPU for gaming.

The OP has a budget large enough to fit a 5870 *and* a better CPU. Spending another $100 over and above the 5870 will not buy a better GPU (in fact, I'd argue it'd buy a significantly worse GPU). It will also not get a high clocked quad with 2x5850. When budget limited by all means consider skimping on memory, CPU, power, cooling, case to get a better GPU to maximize gaming bang for the buck. With a roomy budget (as the OP has) you can have high grade everything.

Also irrelevant, since in this case he can get an i5 750 for $150. Quality 1156 boards can be had for about the same price as the AM3 equivalents. Both are dual channel RAM. Same cost, better CPU. I'd say there's even room in the budget for a D0 920 if the op wishes for some headroom to maximize the chances of no upgrade needed until 2012.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: robertk2012

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: aigomorla
his budget is 1k.

why are u picking out a much inferior system when his budget supports it?

Also a X58 handles multi gpu's better then amd's do.

If he doesnt want to go x58 route, then even then, a i5 would be well within his budget.

Inferior my ass.

Not only are you totally wrong with that statement, it borders on a personal insult. Please justify that with a link to a benchmark, unless you want to take on the whole forum.

I find it funny that you only ask one to provide benchmarks.

Just because a budget is 1k doesnt mean you need to spend that amount.

I only asked for them, since his comment would be unsupported by everyone I know of in this forum. Also, put 2,3 or even 4 SLI'ed cards on an X58 and a 4 ghz 920 and THEN compare that to even a 955@4 ghz (if you get get it there). The 920 will kill it today.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Originally posted by: vel
Guys thanks for your inputs. Please don't unsheath your swords yet. I am wondering what type of setups I will be looking at if I go w/ i7 or 955/965 route? Can you please give me some setups? I heard its preferable to go w/ i7 instead of i5 considering future upgrade ops. Then again Phenom setups are cheaper as well. More than cost I am looking at long-term viability. I also want to try out this Xfire thing but, I don't exactly know which company sells good ATI cards. I always bought NVIDIA Cards from EVGA. So, can you suggest some? Some newegg links will be very helpful. As I am in MD, we have a microcenter here as well. I noticed they have i7s at $199 whereas newegg is selling for $279. What's the catch there?? Thanks again for your help!

omg i just f-d up my whole reply - i'll do a quick one for ya

LOL no catch. Buy one. I did, twice
MC i7 920 = 215$ after tax
Asrock X58 Extreme = 159$ shipped - great board!
Muskin DDR3 6Gb 1333 139$ shipped - that is my ram kit you see in my sig rig 2 and that is my review of it doing CL6 at 1.6v :thumbsup:

That is 513$ so far.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: v8envy

The OP has a budget large enough to fit a 5870 *and* a better CPU. Spending another $100 over and above the 5870 will not buy a better GPU (in fact, I'd argue it'd buy a significantly worse GPU). It will also not get a high clocked quad with 2x5850. When budget limited by all means consider skimping on memory, CPU, power, cooling, case to get a better GPU to maximize gaming bang for the buck. With a roomy budget (as the OP has) you can have high grade everything.

which is my point exactly...

he has the budget.

It will get him very nice stuff that will last a long time.

Yet guys are picking stuff out which i see him upgrading 1 yr later.

 

[GaiaHunter]

For gaming as primary activity and tight budgets, Phenom II or even those cheapass Athlons II, seems to be reasonable.

Considering the huge budget, i5 or i7 will win. Considering that OP is considering 2x card solution, i7 920 seems to be the CPU to get.

Originally posted by: aigomorla
Yet guys are picking stuff out which i see him upgrading 1 yr later.

Not that I disagree with your recommendation, but do you honestly think in a year, X3 720 owners will be scratching their heads and think "wtf this game is slow, stupid CPU"? (not cocky question, just curiosity).

 

[vel]

Based on your inputs, I have decided to go i7 route...
Here's what I got so far. Need to trim fat (seriously!) to make for goodies like heatsink etc. Don't know if my Zalman on 939 socket will be compatible w/ i7.

PSU: OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ700MXSP 700W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC PSU (newegg) @70

CPU: Core i7 920 Processor w/ D0 Stepping (SLBEJ) (Microcenter) @200

MOBO: ASRock X58 Extreme LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard (newegg) @160

RAM: Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Triple Channel) Triple Channel (newegg) @140

GPU: XFX HD-587A-ZNF9 Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity (newegg) @390

Sink: Prolimatech - Megahalems CPU Cooler - 775 / 1366 / 1156 - Rev B (Jabtech) @63 *Thanks to aigomorla

Total ~ $1400. Is this a wise choice? Need to shave off $400. How? Suggestions please.

EDIT: After replacing PCP&C 860W (I like it PSU) w/ OCZ per Markfw900's advice, now, the rig is at $960ish + the accessories...whoa!

EDIT: After updating Mobo and RAM (Thanks to BTRY B 529th FA BN) now, it's 1200ish. I hope by Xmas prices will drop ~20% overall bringing it home!!



Thanks!

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
LOL no catch. Buy one. I did, twice
MC i7 920 = 215$ after tax
Asrock X58 Extreme = 159$ shipped - great board!
Muskin DDR3 6Gb 1333 139$ shipped - that is my ram kit you see in my sig rig 2 and that is my review of it doing CL6 at 1.6v :thumbsup:

That is 513$ so far.

this

EDIT: just make sure it is SLBEJ = D0

EDIT 2: Anand DDR3 review - a must read

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Not that I disagree with your recommendation, but do you honestly think in a year, X3 720 owners will be scratching their heads and think "wtf this game is slow, stupid CPU"? (not cocky question, just curiosity).

Yes.. cuz on the X58 he just needs to keep getting 1 extra card of whatever he has..

Since Xfire and SLI scale up to 4 gpu's.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
Yes.. cuz on the X58 he just needs to keep getting 1 extra card of whatever he has..

Since Xfire and SLI scale up to 4 gpu's.

I see your point of view although I'm not sure I would personally follow that strategy at the present.

But I guess that is off topic.

On topic, wow that PSU is certainly price impressive (and probably performance impressive)... but I think I could build half of a solid gaming pc for $300..