new gaming system

[mrchan]

i've been out of the PC game arena for a while and havent quite kept up with computer technology.

i want a system that will play COD4 well now and Starcraft II when it comes out.

At the same price point, am I better off with dual core or quad core?

I'm guessing amd 64 x2 4200 is too slow, but what do i need? what video card should i be looking for?

2gb of ram is cheap, is that enough?

I don't need the latest and greatest, just something that will hold its own for a few years.

thanks!

 

[mrchan]

oh, and its in this zone b/c the dual core vs quad core is the main question. wont be doing business anything on it. its just for games.

 

[CurseTheSky]

Dual Core vs. Quad Core is always a huge debate. If you upgrade often (more than once every 2 years) I'd grab a dual core. If you're going to be holding on to this thing for a while, grab a quad.

Your X2 4200+ is still enough to play most games out there. However, you will notice some benefit from a modern Core 2 Duo system, especially with Wolfdale out and about. On the other hand, DDR2 is much cheaper than DD2, making a much easier upgrade to 2GB. If you already have 1GB+ and a PCI-E slot, you might be best off just grabbing a graphics card for now and upgrading little by little as time goes on. Otherwise, you can build a very powerful computer for less than $1000 (assuming you have the monitor, speakers, etc. already) these days.

 

[MarcVenice]

For games, go with the e8400 over a q6600. Curse is pretty much right though, your CPU should be fast enough to run those games, paired with a 8800gt or something in that league, it will be just fine. I mean, my x2 3800+ @ 2.6ghz and 8800gts 320mb is still fine too.

 

[mrchan]

i dont have anything right now, and frys has 2 cpu/mobo combos. the x2 4200 is $70, phenom 9500 is $180. save the money on the cpu/mobo and spend it on a nicer video card? is the quad worth $110 more?

 

[mrchan]

combo's i am looking at are here: http://newspaperads.mercurynew...&adid=5803962&cat=3525

 

[RussianSensation]

If you are on a budget, it's better to grab an E2180 processor for $12 more than the X2 4200+ and overclock that to 3.0ghz. You'll also have an upgrade path for 45nm Penryn quads in the future should you choose to when you pick up a P35 motherboard. If you are not going to be overclocking, however, keep in mind that both the low clock speeds of E2180 combined with low L2 cache will be a serious hindrance in gaming = Benches

In this case it'll make more sense to spend a little more for say E8400 processor which delivers 2x the framerates. (of course the benchmarks are somewhat skewed since they show gaming at 1024x768, but regardless even at higher resolutions, you'll have lower minimum framerates with a stock E2180).

For the graphics card, get $210 8800GT 512mb (ie. MSI 8800GT) 8800GT's minimum framerates are close to HD3870's average framerates which will ensure smoother playability in COD4 = Benchmarks

2GB of ram will be sufficient for both of those games. However, you can now get 2x2gb of ram for $70 after rebates LINK. So I would probably grab that.

As far as Quad vs. Dual core, there is little benefit in quad cores right now strictly for gaming since:

1. Most games aren't coded to take advantage of more than 2 cores (save for Microsoft Flight Sim X and Supreme Commander)

2. In most cases with 8800GT you'll be graphics card limited anyway when comparing say Q6600 2.4ghz to E8400 3.0ghz with AA enabled.

 

[CurseTheSky]

Ohh, I see.

You're not going to notice a large improvement between the X2 4200+ and Phenom 9500. If anything, grab the X2.

The motherboard in that deal is NOT a high performance board. I believe it's the same as the Gigabyte board I just grabbed for an Internet / word processing machine - 630i chipset, integrated graphics etc. With that said, the processor is $65 shipped on Newegg; $5 for a spare motherboard (incase something goes wrong) is a pretty good deal. I would definately recommend a better motherboard at some point (there are some decent, cheap AM2 boards out there).

If you're considering grabbing a better motherboard anyway, consider going the Core 2 Duo route. It will be difficult to match the bargain of an AM2 system, but the AM2 system will have a hard time keeping up with the performance. If you can afford $200+ on the motherboard and processor alone, go with Intel. Otherwise, the X2 should be just fine.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: mrchan
oh, and its in this zone b/c the dual core vs quad core is the main question. wont be doing business anything on it. its just for games.

GPU ! GPU ! GPU ! GPU ! GPU ! GPU !

Don't spend more than $100 on your cpu ...

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
For games, go with the e8400 over a q6600. Curse is pretty much right though, your CPU should be fast enough to run those games, paired with a 8800gt or something in that league, it will be just fine. I mean, my x2 3800+ @ 2.6ghz and 8800gts 320mb is still fine too.

Call of Duty 4 actually requires a pretty fast CPU (E6600 or better) for best performance:
http://au.gamespot.com/features/6183967/p-5.html An X2 4200+ would bottleneck a 8800GT in this game.

As for Starcraft II, it ain't even released so who knows, but most RTS games tend to be quite CPU bound, so I'd agree that the E8400 is probably the go, particularly since the OP wants it to last a few years.

 

[aigomorla]

actually i got back into gaming.

i noticed supreme commander runs noticably smoother on my quad then wolfdale. But then again you need to think of another game which has the possibility of 8000 units being animed and roaming on a 81x81km scaled map.

so thats just a heads up.



List your games out please. And list future games you would like to play.

Spore should be quad optimized because universe mangement can be pretty CPU intensive.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
actually i got back into gaming.

i noticed supreme commander runs noticably smoother on my quad then wolfdale. But then again you need to think of another game which has the possibility of 8000 units being animed and roaming on a 81x81km scaled map.

so thats just a heads up.

Well, to be fair, Supreme Commander and Flight Simulator X are the only games capable of taking full advantage of 4 cores. Some games (like UT3) supposedly have quad core support but the advantages only show at 1024x768, once you crank the details up it becomes GPU limited.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: harpoon84

Originally posted by: aigomorla
actually i got back into gaming.

i noticed supreme commander runs noticably smoother on my quad then wolfdale. But then again you need to think of another game which has the possibility of 8000 units being animed and roaming on a 81x81km scaled map.

so thats just a heads up.

Well, to be fair, Supreme Commander and Flight Simulator X are the only games capable of taking full advantage of 4 cores. Some games (like UT3) supposedly have quad core support but the advantages only show at 1024x768, once you crank the details up it becomes GPU limited.

agreed.

so he should beef up his gpu, and then work on cpu.

however a 400x8 X3210 quadcore @ 200 dollars would probably be hard for him to decide a E8400 over. because 3.2ghz quad wont be cpu limited in anything.


OP you really need to list what your intend on using the machine for and software your going to run. Also budget.

Lastly, mark you need to move this thread in general hardware.

 

[mrchan]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
If you are on a budget, it's better to grab an E2180 processor for $12 more than the X2 4200+ and overclock that to 3.0ghz. You'll also have an upgrade path for 45nm Penryn quads in the future should you choose to when you pick up a P35 motherboard. If you are not going to be overclocking, however, keep in mind that both the low clock speeds of E2180 combined with low L2 cache will be a serious hindrance in gaming = Benches

In this case it'll make more sense to spend a little more for say E8400 processor which delivers 2x the framerates. (of course the benchmarks are somewhat skewed since they show gaming at 1024x768, but regardless even at higher resolutions, you'll have lower minimum framerates with a stock E2180).

For the graphics card, get $210 8800GT 512mb (ie. MSI 8800GT) 8800GT's minimum framerates are close to HD3870's average framerates which will ensure smoother playability in COD4 = Benchmarks

2GB of ram will be sufficient for both of those games. However, you can now get 2x2gb of ram for $70 after rebates LINK. So I would probably grab that.

As far as Quad vs. Dual core, there is little benefit in quad cores right now strictly for gaming since:

1. Most games aren't coded to take advantage of more than 2 cores (save for Microsoft Flight Sim X and Supreme Commander)

2. In most cases with 8800GT you'll be graphics card limited anyway when comparing say Q6600 2.4ghz to E8400 3.0ghz with AA enabled.

there's an e2180 combo for $82?

if the 4200 is too slow, frys also has amd 5200 combo for $104. is that enough of a difference?

 

[mrchan]

this is for games only, and really, just call of duty 4 and starcraft II when it comes out. bugdet is as cheap as possible, heh. ram is $20 AR. case is $20 after rebate. I can pick up a SATA hard drive for about $60. i'd like to keep the cpu/mobo/video card as close to about $300 as possible.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: mrchan
if the 4200 is too slow, frys also has amd 5200 combo for $104. is that enough of a difference?

It'll certainly be better, especially for COD4.

http://au.gamespot.com/features/6183967/p-5.html
X2 4200+, which roughly matches the FX-60 @ 2.0GHz, scores 48fps
X2 5200+, which roughly matches the FX-60 @ 2.6GHz, scores 60fps

 

[mrchan]

if i pair the 5200 combo ($104) + an 8800gt ($230) am i good?

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: mrchan
if i pair the 5200 combo ($104) + an 8800gt ($230) am i good?

If your budget is tight, yes, it's good enough.

 

[mrchan]

Originally posted by: harpoon84

Originally posted by: mrchan
if i pair the 5200 combo ($104) + an 8800gt ($230) am i good?

If your budget is tight, yes, it's good enough.

haha, my budget is ALWAYS tight.

 

[CurseTheSky]

XFX 8800GS - $170 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814150276
-OR-
Sapphire HD 3850 - $170 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814102714
(Do some research and figure out which would give you the best performance for what you play)

E2180 (2.0GHz, Dual Core) - $83 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819116052

Gigabyte DS3L (Intel P35) - $90 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128059

Total: $343

If you can squeeze that into your budget, that should give you some pretty decent performance. You can shave off a couple dollars by going with the E2160 or E2140, or a slightly cheaper motherboard (I would definately stick with P35 for that price range though). Don't cheap out on the video card, though; you'll regret it.

This "combo" is based on overclocking, though. If you don't overclock, grab that X2 5200+ and the 8800GT. The 8800GT is a stronger card, and the X2 5200+ should perform similarly at stock speeds. Don't expect to overclock much on their combo deal motherboard, though. Even if you do buy the combo I've listed, consider shelling out another $25 down the line for an Arctic Freezer 7 Pro, if you do decide to overclock. The stock cooler should be good for 2.4-2.6GHz or so, but if you start cranking the voltage, you'll have problems.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: CurseTheSky
XFX 8800GS - $170 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814150276
-OR-
Sapphire HD 3850 - $170 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814102714
(Do some research and figure out which would give you the best performance for what you play)

E2180 (2.0GHz, Dual Core) - $83 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819116052

Gigabyte DS3L (Intel P35) - $90 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128059

Total: $343

If you can squeeze that into your budget, that should give you some pretty decent performance. You can shave off a couple dollars by going with the E2160 or E2140, or a slightly cheaper motherboard (I would definately stick with P35 for that price range though). Don't cheap out on the video card, though; you'll regret it.

This "combo" is based on overclocking, though. If you don't overclock, grab that X2 5200+ and the 8800GT. The 8800GT is a stronger card, and the X2 5200+ should perform similarly at stock speeds. Don't expect to overclock much on their combo deal motherboard, though. Even if you do buy the combo I've listed, consider shelling out another $25 down the line for an Arctic Freezer 7 Pro, if you do decide to overclock. The stock cooler should be good for 2.4-2.6GHz or so, but if you start cranking the voltage, you'll have problems.

+1 this is a much better solution. Id get the 8800GS tho.

 

[mrchan]

8800gt is $183 AR here: http://www.ncixus.com/products...X/Galaxy%20Technology/

at that price point, do i even need to bother looking at the 8800gs/hd 3850?

 

[mrchan]

Originally posted by: CurseTheSky
XFX 8800GS - $170 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814150276
-OR-
Sapphire HD 3850 - $170 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814102714
(Do some research and figure out which would give you the best performance for what you play)

E2180 (2.0GHz, Dual Core) - $83 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819116052

Gigabyte DS3L (Intel P35) - $90 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128059

Total: $343

If you can squeeze that into your budget, that should give you some pretty decent performance. You can shave off a couple dollars by going with the E2160 or E2140, or a slightly cheaper motherboard (I would definately stick with P35 for that price range though). Don't cheap out on the video card, though; you'll regret it.

This "combo" is based on overclocking, though. If you don't overclock, grab that X2 5200+ and the 8800GT. The 8800GT is a stronger card, and the X2 5200+ should perform similarly at stock speeds. Don't expect to overclock much on their combo deal motherboard, though. Even if you do buy the combo I've listed, consider shelling out another $25 down the line for an Arctic Freezer 7 Pro, if you do decide to overclock. The stock cooler should be good for 2.4-2.6GHz or so, but if you start cranking the voltage, you'll have problems.

that's $70 more than the 5200 combo. both combo's paired with an 8800 gt, would there be an noticeable difference?

stock for stock, is the 5200 faster than the e2180?

 

[mrchan]

where would an OC'd e2180 put me on this chart: http://www23.tomshardware.com/...4&model2=912&chart=418

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: mrchan
where would an OC'd e2180 put me on this chart: http://www23.tomshardware.com/...4&model2=912&chart=418

It depends how far you overclock of course!

At 3GHz (a common overclock), you'll be around X2 6000+ / E6750 levels.

3DMark06 ain't a very good CPU benchmark though, it's more a GPU benchmark. It does have a seperate CPU benchmark that shows more gains from a faster CPU.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/...4&model2=883&chart=419