New gen cards and 4K present vs future

[polydev]

HI there, I have a strange dilemma. I'm now sitting at SB i5 some 32GB 1,6GHz RAM and a dual Crossfire 7970 GHz edition. At this moment, all I do seems fine. Except for I'm being bothered by AMD driver immaturity that crashes my desktop from time to time, actually all the time in several hours intervals.
I'm just trough with AMD at this moment and would like to switch to Nvidia for that and as added bonus I see that 780Ti offers some more juice than 7970GHz.

However, I'm looking forward to getting one of those 4K monitors (Dell, ASUS or Sharp) and was wondering but can't find any exact info if any of those cards available now can support future 4K? I remember seeing a poster for 290 series supporting "future 4K"...

Anyway: I'm tempted to replace my dual 7970GHz with:
2x 780Ti (roughly same price due to some form of exchange with my shop)
1x Titan Black (6GB of VRAM seems like a whole lot better for 4K and future-proof)
Nothing at all and wait.

How I see it:

The first solution (would be EVGA I think; think it is the best rated ATM compared to ASUS and Gigabyte) gives me much more speed but I'm not sure if 3GB VRAM is enough for 4K.
The second solution gives me security VRAM
Third option probably enables me to wait for Haswell CPU successor, and Maxwell flagship GPU and actually maybe DP 1.3/HDMI 2.0 and real 4K@60Hz.

I know 2x780Ti vs 2x7970GHz is a lot better for same price, but I'm puzzled at what to do:
Will current cards support new 4K monitors (that would make my Titan Black long-lifed)?
Will 11_0 DirectX level instead of 11_1 hurt longevity?
Is it premature to get current 4K screens (most probably yes)?

 

[Slomo4shO]

Obviously, the Sapphire R9 290X TOXIC with 8GB VRAM

Baasha's 6480x3840 quad Titan setup seems to be running into vram issues with MSAA enabled.

Then again vram shouldn't be a concern with just a single 4k display

 

[lavaheadache]

3 gb is enough for 4K right now as long as you are willing to give up AA in the big titles. You will still be able to run with 2xaa but anymore than that and you'll bust. I hesitate to offer too much info cause some "know it all" will surely come up with some absure benchmark or review to "win" a debate with me.

All I have to offer is a standpoint as an actual owner of 780 ti sli, Dell 4k and in a day or 2 a 290X

 

[polydev]

Well, that Toxic looks very nice, but it is still AMD which I'm going to skip this generation I guess. I don't like clock reduction policy and so much I'd like to opt for quieter and cooler 780Ti/Titan edition. Although, I've read 4K favors AMD in 290/290X vs old 780.

Single 4K is top I'll go with due to cash requirements going insanely high even with one. Since you have that, lavaheadache, why would you want to go to single 290X from 2x780Ti?

And probably, I presume I won't have any benefit with a single or dual card setup to go with 4771/4770K upgrade now...?

 

[norseamd]

Obviously, the Sapphire R9 290X TOXIC with 8GB VRAM

Baasha's 6480x3840 quad Titan setup seems to be running into vram issues with MSAA enabled.

Then again vram shouldn't be a concern with just a single 4k display

the first thing i would do is take off the cooler and put water cooling on it. then see how much it will overclock. not sure if any one would think that the card would be ruined with no warranty but that thing deserves all the cooling it can get. does it have hynix memory?

 

[norseamd]

Well, that Toxic looks very nice, but it is still AMD which I'm going to skip this generation I guess. I don't like clock reduction policy and so much I'd like to opt for quieter and cooler 780Ti/Titan edition. Although, I've read 4K favors AMD in 290/290X vs old 780. Single 4K is top I'll go with due to cash requirements going insanely high even with one. Since you have that, lavaheadache, why would you want to go to single 290X from 2x780Ti? And probably, I presume I won't have any benefit with a single or dual card setup to go with 4771/4770K upgrade now...?

no current card is going to run 4k well. you really should wait. wonder what fps the tosic 290x could do at 4k. what games do you run?

 

[polydev]

No current single card, but dual should work fine according to benchmarks out there. I do play some Diablo 3, StarCraft 2 and Battlefield 4, not really games easy on hw.
I guess an SLI/CFX would do the trick for one display.

 

[RaulF]

3 gb is enough for 4K right now as long as you are willing to give up AA in the big titles. You will still be able to run with 2xaa but anymore than that and you'll bust. I hesitate to offer too much info cause some "know it all" will surely come up with some absure benchmark or review to "win" a debate with me.

All I have to offer is a standpoint as an actual owner of 780 ti sli, Dell 4k and in a day or 2 a 290X

No you are on point.

Even thought i dont have a 4K display i do game BF4 @ 200% scale = 4K everything else ultra and i cannot turn msaa on or i will go over vram and will stutter.

But at the same time, i see no need for it the AA.

So for anyone that wants to go 4K and multi screens, i suggest 290X multicard setups or titan blacks.

And that 8Gb sapphire card would be tits for high res stuff. :twisted:

 

[polydev]

No you are on point.

Even thought i dont have a 4K display i do game BF4 @ 200% scale = 4K everything else ultra and i cannot turn msaa on or i will go over vram and will stutter.

But at the same time, i see no need for it the AA.

So for anyone that wants to go 4K and multi screens, i suggest 290X multicard setups or titan blacks.

And that 8Gb sapphire card would be tits for high res stuff. :twisted:

AA seems kinda pointless at 4K, at least to me. How are you satisfied with 200% scale and dual 780Ti? Because, dual 780Ti seems like a good solution for one 4K I'd like to get performance wise and regarding memory, if it works for 200% scale on your side (making it 4K).

Titan Blacks seem OK too, but it's double the price of dual 780Ti. I don't see a reason for Titans for single 4K.. am I right?

 

[norseamd]

AA seems kinda pointless at 4K, at least to me. How are you satisfied with 200% scale and dual 780Ti? Because, dual 780Ti seems like a good solution for one 4K I'd like to get performance wise and regarding memory, if it works for 200% scale on your side (making it 4K).

would not even worry if you can not do aa while running at 4k. the higher desity of pixels should be great over aa

 

[guskline]

polydev: What is your present monitor resolution? On a lower scale I switched out my 2 EVGA GTX670 FTWS in SLI for a single EVGA GTX780 Classified in my rig below and though benchmarks (ie Firestrike, fps) dropped some it's smoother. My monitor is an Achieva Shimian 27" 2560 x 1440.

I respect lavaheadache's opinion in this area because he actually HAS a 4k monitor so his opinion is based on actual experience, not what he read on a forum.

Until you decide on the monitor upgrade, I'd hold tight. 2 7970s in Crossfire is nothing to sneeze at!

 

[polydev]

I'm running a 27" Dell U2711 at 2560x1440. I got rid of one 7970GHz last night since I just can't stand noise and vibrations which have now been significantly cut down (like 30-40% in total seems to have been coming from that addon card). I am now at single 7970GHz and have tried Battlefield 4 Medium settings and 2560x1440 @ 200% resolution scaling (making it 4K in rendering before scaling down). I keep 60FPS with Mantle renderer.

That really surprised me since I've expected a serious slowdown from 4K, but it appears to actually be linear, almost in half (used to have 110-130 FPS on 100% scaling).

Regarding monitor, it will probably be a Dell 32" 4K since I see no benefit from quite more expensive Asus or Sharp and will enjoy less-visible IPS grain/shine on 4K model (told to be less at least).

I respect his and all-of-you's opinion.

P.S. I didn't get a reply why is he moving to 290X from 2x780Ti...

 

[Slomo4shO]

I don't like clock reduction policy and so much I'd like to opt for quieter and cooler 780Ti/Titan edition.

You really do need to read up on aftermarket R9 290s and stop basing your conclusions on the reference models... :whiste:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/R9_290X_Tri-X_OC/
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7601/sapphire-radeon-r9-290-review-our-first-custom-cooled-290
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-290-and-290x,3728-9.html
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/61...b-oc-overclocked-video-card-review/index.html
http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...re-r9-290x-tri-x-oc-review-1600p-ultra-hd-4k/
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Sapphire-Radeon-R9-290X-Tri-X-4GB-Graphics-Card-Review

 

[polydev]

I did. Thanks for your valuable input; it seems aftermarket job is done nicely. Regarding that, seems as Asus is the best choice for aftermarket 290X.

Now, when coming to 780Ti or Titan Black, one would wonder if Asus CU2 or EVGA SC to go...

 

[RaulF]

AA seems kinda pointless at 4K, at least to me. How are you satisfied with 200% scale and dual 780Ti? Because, dual 780Ti seems like a good solution for one 4K I'd like to get performance wise and regarding memory, if it works for 200% scale on your side (making it 4K).

Titan Blacks seem OK too, but it's double the price of dual 780Ti. I don't see a reason for Titans for single 4K.. am I right?

I would not call it pointless, but it does appear to not offer the same benefit it does @ 1080.

Like i said, Ti will do it and so will 290X. You just have to keep in mind that if you see bad performance and big add frame drops it is most likely your vram is just not enough.

I was having that issue in BF4 and i had to drop all SMAA to none and right now i coast right under the 3GB vram limit, game runs smooth.

 

[polydev]

I would not call it pointless, but it does appear to not offer the same benefit it does @ 1080.

Like i said, Ti will do it and so will 290X. You just have to keep in mind that if you see bad performance and big add frame drops it is most likely your vram is just not enough.

I was having that issue in BF4 and i had to drop all SMAA to none and right now i coast right under the 3GB vram limit, game runs smooth.

So, (dual) Titans Black would do a neat trick there and just work fine.

I did some tests and seems that 3570K is enough for that too... So I'll probably be able to save on platform update...

 

[Slomo4shO]

I did. Thanks for your valuable input; it seems aftermarket job is done nicely. Regarding that, seems as Asus is the best choice for aftermarket 290X.

The Asus DCII is currently one of the worst aftermarket R9 290s. The best is currently the Sapphire Tri-X followed by the PowerColor PCS+

The upcoming Sapphire Vapor-X and Toxic should outperform the Tri-X, the same should be true for the Asus Matrix and the MSI Lightning but I'll wait for reviews

 

[Attic]

Slomo's go it, but i'd second that you do a thorough evaluation of dual 290 or 290x with the updated coolers if 4k is your goal into the future.

Otherwise dual Titan Blacks and enjoy.

If you're pinched on cash, you can go dual 290 with good coolers for ~1k, and stick any savings towards best single monitor or a triple monitor setup.

I'm not sure if 4k is the best upgrade from 1080p/144p/1600p, though it clearly is an upgrade. I think triple screen may be more immservise as well as offering better performance as long as you don't go 3x1600p. For affordability I think 780non ti SLI (if you remain averse to 290 lineup) with 3x1080p monitors may be more awsome than single 4k.

 

[polydev]

So, I've been reading a lot lately. It seems that for a single 4K monitor, 3 or 4 GB of VRAM won't make a difference. Also, it seems that Titans have no advantage over 780Ti.

Now I am left with a choice: 290X or 780Ti. Both are great cards. What actually bothers me is that I don't really like AMD drivers lately and I was kind of involved with CUDA (not for a year now tho).

From my experience so far (last Nvidia I've used was a GTX 580) Nvidia has better consistency when it comes to framerate and more stable drivers.
On the other hand, AMD has more up-to-date drivers (following newer editions of APIs) but that didn't show up as important. Also, it has Mantle (and I do play BF4) and supposedly it is already ready fo a single-panel 4K screens (not tiled 4K) at 60Hz (which I can't find a link now unfortunatelly). How is that possible considering DisplayPort 1.3 or HDMI 2.0 are not out yet is beyond me.
Also 290X has a bit better performance at 4K.

So, for 4K I'd have to go with 290X to get more perf. and probably future proof if I wait for a 4K?

And one more thing to mention is that noise/silence and heat are very important factors to me.

290X - performance, future proof (?)
780Ti - silent, more reliable (?)

Ah and difference is 150 USD favoring cheaper 290X.

If you'd suggest 290X - shall I go for Sapphire Tri-X OC or Asus DirectCU II?
If you'd suggest 780Ti - shall I go for EVGA SC or Asus DirectCU II?

And check this review for example:
http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...90x-oc-windforce-review-1600p-ultra-hd-4k/27/

Palit 780Ti leading over 290X??

 

[lavaheadache]

Put some time in last night with my 290x in bf4. Though I don't have any numbers to back up performance because OSD doesn't work with Mantle yet and Afterburner, it seems as though the 290x is a bit more powerful than a single 780ti. Frame rate was definately smoother if not actually higher than the green card. I haven't tried any other games yet as BF4 is the only one installed.

So far I'm impressed. The cooler noise is definately a regression but I game with headphones on and in my real world scenario it was a non issue.

 

[polydev]

Put some time in last night with my 290x in bf4. Though I don't have any numbers to back up performance because OSD doesn't work with Mantle yet and Afterburner, it seems as though the 290x is a bit more powerful than a single 780ti. Frame rate was definately smoother if not actually higher than the green card. I haven't tried any other games yet as BF4 is the only one installed.

So far I'm impressed. The cooler noise is definately a regression but I game with headphones on and in my real world scenario it was a non issue.

Yes, I've seen those tests and appreciate your real experience. Yet, I can't understand why in some tests this Palit 780Ti (although it is a $1000 version of 780Ti which is actually Titan level price) is better than 290X even Sapphire.

Got any more tests to throw at me?

 

[Zardnok]

So, I've been reading a lot lately. It seems that for a single 4K monitor, 3 or 4 GB of VRAM won't make a difference. Also, it seems that Titans have no advantage over 780Ti.

Now I am left with a choice: 290X or 780Ti. Both are great cards. What actually bothers me is that I don't really like AMD drivers lately and I was kind of involved with CUDA (not for a year now tho).

From my experience so far (last Nvidia I've used was a GTX 580) Nvidia has better consistency when it comes to framerate and more stable drivers.
On the other hand, AMD has more up-to-date drivers (following newer editions of APIs) but that didn't show up as important. Also, it has Mantle (and I do play BF4) and supposedly it is already ready fo a single-panel 4K screens (not tiled 4K) at 60Hz (which I can't find a link now unfortunatelly). How is that possible considering DisplayPort 1.3 or HDMI 2.0 are not out yet is beyond me.
Also 290X has a bit better performance at 4K.

So, for 4K I'd have to go with 290X to get more perf. and probably future proof if I wait for a 4K?

And one more thing to mention is that noise/silence and heat are very important factors to me.

290X - performance, future proof (?)
780Ti - silent, more reliable (?)

Ah and difference is 150 USD favoring cheaper 290X.

If you'd suggest 290X - shall I go for Sapphire Tri-X OC or Asus DirectCU II?
If you'd suggest 780Ti - shall I go for EVGA SC or Asus DirectCU II?

And check this review for example:
http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...90x-oc-windforce-review-1600p-ultra-hd-4k/27/

Palit 780Ti leading over 290X??

To follow up on Slomo's comment from earlier and to answer one of your questions here, do not get the Asus DirectCU cooler on the 290s. It is an adaptation of an older cooler with four heat-pipes, unfortunately two of the four do not make contact with the GPU core and the cooler is effectively gimped offering higher temps than most of the other after-market coolers. Asus is not the only one adapting older heatsinks for 290s, so you need to be careful on which aftermarket cooler you get.

That said, the Sapphire Tri-X coolers are newly designed for the 290s and they have consistently tested out as the best of the available aftermarket options. I did a lot of research before I dumped $1200 into video cards and decided to go with the Tri-X 290s. Looking back, perhaps I wish I had gone with 290Xs instead, but at the time there was a $400 difference in price thanks to mining overly inflating prices.

I would also like to comment on your "skipping" a generation as I understand the frustrations of spending lots of money on hard-ware and not being happy with your purchase. You are currently unhappy with your 7970 cross-fire set up, but AMD fixed Cross-fire in the 290 series cards as they use the PCI bus to transfer data and not the tiny cross-fire bridge directly between cards. They also implemented Mantle which is big for BF4 and have more RAM.

 

[polydev]

Thanks. One more thing that interests me: I've seen that a Titan I've tested, outputs hot air outside the case, but that Palit 780Ti obviously does that into the case. What is the situation with Sapphire Tri-X 290X in that regard? Do all those aftermarket coolers output heat into the case and not outside of it, trought the back.

I'm mostly unhappy with noise. It is really annoying.

 

[UaVaj]

3 gb is enough for 4K right now as long as you are willing to give up AA in the big titles. You will still be able to run with 2xaa but anymore than that and you'll bust. I hesitate to offer too much info cause some "know it all" will surely come up with some absure benchmark or review to "win" a debate with me.

All I have to offer is a standpoint as an actual owner of 780 ti sli, Dell 4k and in a day or 2 a 290X

this is the only reason why not upgrading to 780ti tri-sli.
3gb is bearly enough vram for 1080p surround (aka 3k display) with ALL the eye candy (yes 4xaa).
as for titan black. do not have enough vaseline to buy three.

290x tri-fire/quadfire is a mess (ask karlitos - mr patience).

to enjoy 4k at it "fullest." 780ti trisli / 290x trifire is ideal.
with 4gb+ vram minimum. so 780ti is moot.
if you are willing to turn down eye candy. a single 780/290 will suffice. as lavaheadache has pointed out.
without eye candy. vram consideration is also moot.

.

 

[Subyman]

If you aren't buying a 4k monitor tomorrow, then just wait. The GPU market may change in the next few months, especially pricing wise. If you are having trouble with AMD drivers and that's what motivated these thoughts in your head about upgrading then you probably shouldn't be considering AMD cards. The R9's are great cards, but I enjoy nvidia drivers more as well. I switched from an R9 to nvidia due to small issues with drivers and I could take advantage of the crazy prices that the cards are selling for.

FWIW, the 780TI and Titan are a pretty poor value on the GPU market. $699 and $999 just to run 4k mediocrely doesn't seem like a good value proposition. IMO, putting off the urge to go 4k until the fall will yield a much better set up over the long run.