New GTX260 vs 4870 1GB

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter
One of the cards that died on me was an MSI GF 6800 nU. It was overclocked and had the extra pipes and shader unlocked. They still send me a GF 6800 GT to replace it

About stock cards overclocking the same as pre overclocked ones, I'm a bit more dubious. 3rd parties do seem to pick the better cores for the pre-oc ones.

There is a thread around here with that guy with an 4850 pre-oc model with 790 core (that is insane, my CCC only goes up to 750 for my 4850) and some other pre-oc cards I've seen and own go up to 740 on core.

Anyway, sooner or later factory oc 4870 will be on the street.

Who, which mfg, pre oc's ATi cards?

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter
About stock cards overclocking the same as pre overclocked ones, I'm a bit more dubious. 3rd parties do seem to pick the better cores for the pre-oc ones.

There is a thread around here with that guy with an 4850 pre-oc model with 790 core (that is insane, my CCC only goes up to 750 for my 4850) and some other pre-oc cards I've seen and own go up to 740 on core.

Anyway, sooner or later factory oc 4870 will be on the street.

One person can have 800 on a stock clock gpu and pre-overclocked gpu that doesn't even hit 750.

Fact of the matter is that not all chips overclock the same. It doesn't matter if it's factory-overclocked or not. But in 99% of the cases a stock GPU can hit factory overclocked speeds without much problems.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Zebo

The 4870 is huge upgrade from previous gen ati cards. 100%.

That's only because the previous gen was awful. They still did not overtake the competition, which is the most important factor.

 

[sourthings]

Stop feeding the nvidia troll Want to talk value, let's look at the $500 4870X2 that is faster than the $900 GTX280SLI solution. Or how about the 4870 1GB @ $260 that is only about 3-5% slower than the $450 GTX 280 in some cases and actually faster than it in others.

Stop feeding the troll.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: Zebo

The 4870 is huge upgrade from previous gen ati cards. 100%.

That's only because the previous gen was awful. They still did not overtake the competition, which is the most important factor.

They overtook nV in price to performance hence forums everywhere are stacked 4870's. Again the GTX 280 needs to be $299 and it would be the opposite. Until then 4870 will continue it's dominance.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: Azn

Fact of the matter is that not all chips overclock the same. It doesn't matter if it's factory-overclocked or not. But in 99% of the cases a stock GPU can hit factory overclocked speeds without much problems.

Now if I was a 3rd party which chips would I use on my pre-oc more expensive boards?

Anyway generally the extra value of a pre-oc card is a better cooling/noise solution. The higher clocks are just the cherry

 

[Zebo]

Did anyone else notice the redux 260 card was as fast as the GFX 280? Begs the question - why is GTX 280 $150 more???

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Who, which mfg, pre oc's ATi cards?

4850 790 core

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: sourthings
Stop feeding the nvidia troll Want to talk value, let's look at the $500 4870X2 that is faster than the $900 GTX280SLI solution. Or how about the 4870 1GB @ $260 that is only about 3-5% slower than the $450 GTX 280 in some cases and actually faster than it in others.

Stop feeding the troll.

Yeah that X2 is one sweet card wish I could stand Ati's bloated buggy drivers.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: Azn

Fact of the matter is that not all chips overclock the same. It doesn't matter if it's factory-overclocked or not. But in 99% of the cases a stock GPU can hit factory overclocked speeds without much problems.

Now if I was a 3rd party which chips would I use on my pre-oc more expensive boards?

Anyway generally the extra value of a pre-oc card is a better cooling/noise solution. The higher clocks are just the cherry

You think 3rd party go through every single chip they bought from nvidia figuring out which would hit factory overclocks? :laugh:

What better cooling solutions are you talking about? Seems most 3rd party charge more for exactly the same thing as non overclocked boards. No better cooling whatsoever. Just a bios edit and sell it for $20 more. :disgust:

Anyway look at my chip in my sig it's a stock clocked GPU that hits higher than factory overclocked chips.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: sourthings


Stop feeding the troll.

Someone is feeding you?

 

[kki000]

testing the overclocked gtx against the vanilla ati was ok in my book, since it matches what you would find in the marketplace.
Of all the 4870 1gb cards at newegg, only 1 is overclocked and the rest all use factory specs.
Of the gtx260, almost all of them ARE oc'd save 2 or 3.

Still they should have cut the difference a little bit and tested something with a milder oc, like 620-630.
650 is on the high end of the scale of whats available and you only get that on the... uhmm more economical brands like zotac. (for ~$300 anyway)

I read the hardocp comparo which used a stock timed.
From a quick glance at the benches, doesnt seem to me the oc helped nvidia much.

so yeah, ati wins this round, bye bye 8800gt.

 

[AzN]

Why oh why didn't Nvidia name the new GTX 260 as GTX 270? Wouldn't that make sense instead of naming a chip with more shader and tmu exactly same as chip that has less?

 

[Zebo]

If you have a 8800GT best thing is get another and put all new cards to shame save the x2.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: Azn

You think 3rd party go through every single chip they bought from nvidia figuring out which would hit factory overclocks? :laugh:

What better cooling solutions are you talking about? Seems most 3rd party charge more for exactly the same thing as non overclocked boards. No better cooling whatsoever. Just a bios edit and sell it for $20 more. :disgust:

Anyway look at my chip in my sig it's a stock clocked GPU that hits higher than factory overclocked chips.

Are you telling me that nvidia, amd and intel don't have a clue about which of their chips perform better than others in a given waffer?

Are you telling me that 3rd parties just go overclock the chip and sell it as overclocked product without knowing it will actaully sustain the load or not?

Everyone gets goods chips and those fucking bad chips that wont clock 1 mhz higher once in a while.

What I meant is that considering prices, considering that factory overclocked GPU's most often than not also come with better and/or silent cooling solutions and, on average I bet they overclock higher, although some of those pre-oveclocked GPU's will be shitty chips that won't clock 1 mhz more.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: Zebo

Who, which mfg, pre oc's ATi cards?

4850 790 core

Uhm, looks more like dug777 was able to overclock it himself if you ask me.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: Azn

You think 3rd party go through every single chip they bought from nvidia figuring out which would hit factory overclocks? :laugh:

What better cooling solutions are you talking about? Seems most 3rd party charge more for exactly the same thing as non overclocked boards. No better cooling whatsoever. Just a bios edit and sell it for $20 more. :disgust:

Anyway look at my chip in my sig it's a stock clocked GPU that hits higher than factory overclocked chips.

Are you telling me that nvidia, amd and intel don't have a clue about which of their chips perform better than others in a given waffer?

Are you telling me that 3rd parties just go overclock the chip and sell it as overclocked product without knowing it will actaully sustain the load or not?

Everyone gets goods chips and those fucking bad chips that wont clock 1 mhz higher once in a while.

What I meant is that considering prices, considering that factory overclocked GPU's most often than not also come with better and/or silent cooling solutions and, on average I bet they overclock higher, although some of those pre-oveclocked GPU's will be shitty chips that won't clock 1 mhz more.

Nvidia doesn't sell factory overclocked chips. Intel doesn't either. :brokenheart:

3rd party like EVGA are the ones selling overclocked chips. I have no idea what these 3rd party does to test these factory overclocked settings and neither do you. For all I know 3rd party just edit bios and sell it for more. They don't have some specially hand picked from fab in Taiwan. Only Nvidia decides that to put the high end bin chips in their flag ship models. Not 3rd party!

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: krnmastersgt

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: Zebo

Who, which mfg, pre oc's ATi cards?

4850 790 core

Uhm, looks more like dug777 was able to overclock it himself if you ask me.

I didn't say it was 790 from factory. I was just pointing that pre overclocked chips are most likely better on average for overclock that the ones used at stock, since one of the arguments used against this oc GTX 260 (and I'm not a fan of the 200 series) is that lowers the room for overclock, which might not exactly be true, cause not all chips are born the same.

PS: I misread. It doesn't say its overclocked it is only non stock HSF. Doesn't state the model.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: krnmastersgt

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: Zebo

Who, which mfg, pre oc's ATi cards?

4850 790 core

Uhm, looks more like dug777 was able to overclock it himself if you ask me.

I didn't say it was 790 from factory. I was just pointing that pre overclocked chips are most likely better on average for overclock that the ones used at stock, since one of the arguments used against this oc GTX 260 (and I'm not a fan of the 200 series) is that lowers the room for overclock, wich might not exactly be true, cause not all chips are born the same.

Goto a extremesystems and people with factory clocked chips were able to attain those speeds.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: Azn
Nvidia doesn't sell factory overclocked chips. Intel doesn't either. :brokenheart:

3rd party like EVGA are the ones selling overclocked chips. I have no idea what these 3rd party does to test these factory overclocked settings and neither do you. For all I know 3rd party just edit bios and sell it for more. They don't have some specially hand picked from fab in Taiwan. Only Nvidia decides that to put the high end bin chips in their flag ship models. Not 3rd party!

Yes noone can possible know which chips are the best. Better tell those guys buying processors to stop going after a specific stepping...

And better tell EVGA or XFX or ASUS or Sapphire to stop making pre-overclocked models with non reference HSF because those products are worse as they will reduce the headroom for overclocking...

Thank you for educating me.

 

[Zebo]

They obviously speed bin the OC cards - only about 10% of the cards can even get to what BFG sells thier OCX cards too.

that's why i always buy the highest factory OCed nV cards I can find and put them under water for even more.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: Azn
Nvidia doesn't sell factory overclocked chips. Intel doesn't either. :brokenheart:

3rd party like EVGA are the ones selling overclocked chips. I have no idea what these 3rd party does to test these factory overclocked settings and neither do you. For all I know 3rd party just edit bios and sell it for more. They don't have some specially hand picked from fab in Taiwan. Only Nvidia decides that to put the high end bin chips in their flag ship models. Not 3rd party!

Yes noone can possible know which chips are the best. Better tell those guys buying processors to stop going after a specific stepping...

And better tell EVGA or XFX or ASUS or Sapphire to stop making pre-overclocked models with non reference HSF because those products are worse as they will reduce the headroom for overclocking...

Thank you for educating me.

Stepping is one thing for intel CPU's but GPU is entire different ball game. Higher end bin GPU goes strictly to flag ship models straight from manufacturer which is Nvidia or AMD. 3rd party doesn't make the chips so they can't hand pick for pre cooked chips.

These 3rd manufacturer can stuff better heatsink on them. That's about all they do.

You're welcome.

You obviously needed the education.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: Azn


Stepping is one thing for intel CPU's but GPU is entire different ball game. Higher end bin GPU goes strictly to flag ship models straight from manufacturer which is Nvidia or AMD. 3rd party doesn't make the chips so they can't hand pick for pre cooked chips.

These 3rd manufacturer can stuff better heatsink on them. That's about all they do.

You're welcome.

You obviously needed the education.

Of course they can't choose or ask/pay nvidia or amd for them. They just go and slap non standard HSF on the chip and get it in a more expensive shinny box with some higher clocked numbers.

In fact it is surprising they don't all do that to charge more, since every single chip clock even higher than those overclocked chips.

 

[Zebo]

"so they can't hand pick for pre cooked chips. "

They do it all the time. How you think BFG can even make OCX cards?

"stuff better heatsink on them."

Wrong again BFG's, and others, lower end card uses same HSF as their extreme cards - but those lower end ones never get close to as high clocks.

It's trivial for these card makers to build a automated binning machine.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Zebo
"so they can't hand pick for pre cooked chips. "

They do it all the time. How you think BFG can even make OCX cards?

"stuff better heatsink on them."

Wrong again BFG's, and others, lower end card uses same HSF as their extreme cards - but those lower end ones never get close to as high clocks.

It's trivial for these card makers to build a automated binning machine.

I have never bought a OCX and don't even know what that's all about. So they might actually pick a chip and test them if they run at overclocked speeds. Doesn't mean non tested factory clocked gpu can't do the same. As for better heatsinks I was quoting GaiaHunter.

You can obviously see that my 8800gs can overclock beyond a precooked chip. It's supposed to run 550/1375/800. A superclocked that cost more is clocked at 650/1500/950. Since you said you can't overclock better than a preoverclocked GPU why is my overclock better than most superclocked overclocked GPU's? It's running on stock cooling and voltage BTW.