New GTX260 vs 4870 1GB

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: Azn
Since you said you can't overclock better than a preoverclocked GPU why is my overclock better than most superclocked overclocked GPU's? It's running on stock cooling and voltage BTW.

Quote where I stated that. If im not drunk I only said on average I bet that pre overclocked ones will overclock higher than stock ones. Never said it was impossible, just that is more likely.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: Azn
Since you said you can't overclock better than a preoverclocked GPU why is my overclock better than most superclocked overclocked GPU's? It's running on stock cooling and voltage BTW.

Quote where I stated that. If im not drunk I only said on average I bet that pre overclocked ones will overclock higher than stock ones. Never said it was impossible, just that is more likely.

Do you have comprehension problems? I wasn't even quoting you when I replied to poster above.

So on average what is difference between the final clocks? You got the data from where? Oh that's right you are just making shit up as you go.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: Zebo
"so they can't hand pick for pre cooked chips. "

They do it all the time. How you think BFG can even make OCX cards?

"stuff better heatsink on them."

Wrong again BFG's, and others, lower end card uses same HSF as their extreme cards - but those lower end ones never get close to as high clocks.

It's trivial for these card makers to build a automated binning machine.

I have never bought a OCX and don't even know what that's all about. So they might actually pick a chip and test them if they run at overclocked speeds. Doesn't mean non tested factory clocked gpu can't do the same. As for better heatsinks I was quoting GaiaHunter.

You can obviously see that my 8800gs can overclock beyond a precooked chip. It's supposed to run 550/1375/800. A superclocked that cost more is clocked at 650/1500/950. Since you said you can't overclock better than a preoverclocked GPU why is my overclock better than most superclocked overclocked GPU's? It's running on stock cooling and voltage BTW.

For example the OCX 260 sells stock @:
Core Clock: 655MHz
Shader Clock: 1,404MHz
Memory Clock: 2,250MHz

Most stock cards will not reach that as proven in various "show you GTX 260 overclock" threads. BFG does it on every OCX obviously since thats what it's sold at. Some cards do certainly and most can with water/phase cooling which I've dertermined every 10C lower get you an additional 35-50Mhz over max air OC core.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I don't know if manufacturers get cherry picked GPU's or not for their higher end factory overclocked stuff (not the 25mhz overclocked stuff, any chip would probably due for that 99% of the time) or not. But Azn, I don't think you can use your 8800GS as a benchmark for all cards and GPU's. Your GPU is one that is meant to run at a higher speed, but more then likely artificially limited by a lower clock speed to keep from canabalizing sales from Nvidia's higher end stuff (8800GT, etc).

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: Zebo
"so they can't hand pick for pre cooked chips. "

They do it all the time. How you think BFG can even make OCX cards?

"stuff better heatsink on them."

Wrong again BFG's, and others, lower end card uses same HSF as their extreme cards - but those lower end ones never get close to as high clocks.

It's trivial for these card makers to build a automated binning machine.

I have never bought a OCX and don't even know what that's all about. So they might actually pick a chip and test them if they run at overclocked speeds. Doesn't mean non tested factory clocked gpu can't do the same. As for better heatsinks I was quoting GaiaHunter.

You can obviously see that my 8800gs can overclock beyond a precooked chip. It's supposed to run 550/1375/800. A superclocked that cost more is clocked at 650/1500/950. Since you said you can't overclock better than a preoverclocked GPU why is my overclock better than most superclocked overclocked GPU's? It's running on stock cooling and voltage BTW.

For example the OCX 260 sells stock @:
Core Clock: 655MHz
Shader Clock: 1,404MHz
Memory Clock: 2,250MHz

Most stock cards will not reach that as proven in various "show you GTX 260 overclock" threads. BFG does it on every OCX obviously since thats what it's sold at. Some cards do certainly and most can with water/phase cooling which I've dertermined every 10C lower get you an additional 35-50Mhz over max air OC core.

Maybe they are just noobs who can't overclock their chip and would you mind linking to your claims when you post with proven data. Power issues etc.. Could be lot of things.

Factory clocked 260 is 575. To get to 655mhz isn't much.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: Azn
Since you said you can't overclock better than a preoverclocked GPU why is my overclock better than most superclocked overclocked GPU's? It's running on stock cooling and voltage BTW.

Quote where I stated that. If im not drunk I only said on average I bet that pre overclocked ones will overclock higher than stock ones. Never said it was impossible, just that is more likely.

Do you have comprehension problems? I wasn't even quoting you when I replied to poster above.

So on average what is difference between the final clocks? You got the data from where? Oh that's right you are just making shit up as you go.

Have seen 3 powercolors pcs+ for example. all the 3 got 740 in their cores (4850). Have some old 7600 GT and 7900 GT from XFX and they all clocked pretty well.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: Azn
Since you said you can't overclock better than a preoverclocked GPU why is my overclock better than most superclocked overclocked GPU's? It's running on stock cooling and voltage BTW.

Quote where I stated that. If im not drunk I only said on average I bet that pre overclocked ones will overclock higher than stock ones. Never said it was impossible, just that is more likely.

Do you have comprehension problems? I wasn't even quoting you when I replied to poster above.

So on average what is difference between the final clocks? You got the data from where? Oh that's right you are just making shit up as you go.

Have seen 3 powercolors pcs+ for example. all the 3 got 740 in their cores (4850). Have some old 7600 GT and 7900 GT from XFX and they all clocked pretty well.

Did you say you were drinking?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: Zebo
"so they can't hand pick for pre cooked chips. "

They do it all the time. How you think BFG can even make OCX cards?

"stuff better heatsink on them."

Wrong again BFG's, and others, lower end card uses same HSF as their extreme cards - but those lower end ones never get close to as high clocks.

It's trivial for these card makers to build a automated binning machine.

I have never bought a OCX and don't even know what that's all about. So they might actually pick a chip and test them if they run at overclocked speeds. Doesn't mean non tested factory clocked gpu can't do the same. As for better heatsinks I was quoting GaiaHunter.

You can obviously see that my 8800gs can overclock beyond a precooked chip. It's supposed to run 550/1375/800. A superclocked that cost more is clocked at 650/1500/950. Since you said you can't overclock better than a preoverclocked GPU why is my overclock better than most superclocked overclocked GPU's? It's running on stock cooling and voltage BTW.

For example the OCX 260 sells stock @:
Core Clock: 655MHz
Shader Clock: 1,404MHz
Memory Clock: 2,250MHz

Most stock cards will not reach that as proven in various "show you GTX 260 overclock" threads. BFG does it on every OCX obviously since thats what it's sold at. Some cards do certainly and most can with water/phase cooling which I've dertermined every 10C lower get you an additional 35-50Mhz over max air OC core.

Maybe they are just noobs who can't overclock their chip and would you mind linking to your claims when you post with proven data. Power issues etc.. Could be lot of things.

Factory clocked 260 is 575. To get to 655mhz isn't much.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=264896

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
The less expensive GTX260 is better than a more expensive 4870. So the price is very much correct. The GTX280 is still the fastest GPU available.

4870 = gtx 260

4870x2 > gtx 280

:Q

Originally posted by: Wreckage
They still did not overtake the competition, which is the most important factor.

Yah, outpacing two Geforce GTX 280 1GB cards in SLI with one Ati card is not "overtaking"

http://images.anandtech.com/gr...071308223626/17190.png

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Zebo


http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=264896

That thread doesn't show me average overclock non-factory overcloked vs factory overclocked overclocking higher. Only thing that thread shows me that the OP didn't get high clocks he had hoped.

From other users in that thread.

I bought a regular XFX card. So far I am fine @ 690|2300 with a 1550 shader clock. I haven't tried to push the memory much yet.

i clocked my GTX260 at 625 1350 2250 and it is stable but i cant see any changes in benchmarks (3dmark06 15800, 3dmark05 18790) i tried to clock it at 650 1400 2400 and it was stable too but i removed the overclocks cause i did not get better scores than without overclocking.

I flashed my GTX260 to 680 / 1400 / 2400 one hour ago and made many tests and it seems to be stable.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: deerhunter716

Originally posted by: apoppin
i do agree with this .. for any 512mb card:

Only in a couple of cases?Warhead at 1920x1200 and GRID at 2560x1600?did we see the 4870 1GB's extra memory make a difference versus the 4870 512MB. But the difference in GRID was night and day. Personally, given the choice, I'd pony up the extra cash for the 1GB card, just for the peace of mind

i do not agree that a 512mb 4870 is sufficient for 19x12, however

I disagree. I run ALL modern games except Crysis with 4XAA/8XAF without one single issue at 1920x1200 on a 26" monitor. I will agree that it is not sufficient if you want to absolutely MAX out AA/AF; but that is not required at that resolution and the benchmarks prove that.

Well i just dumpe .. i mean, sold mine

i got this instead:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814121277
with WoW ..
. . . and a $20 MiR

That 4870/512 is too slow {for me} at 19x12 with 1) Crysis, 2) Warhead, 3) Stalker, 4)Clear Sky, 5) Lost Planet, 6) Call of Juarez, .. and it is a dog on the upcoming PT Boats

NoAA/AF with Crysis, 2xAA/16xAF with Warhead and 4xAA/16xAF for the rest all dip below 30FPS

i would prefer the OC'd 1GB GT260+ .. also for $300
- and i would not want to get stuck with 512MB for future games

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: Zebo


http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=264896

That thread doesn't show me average overclock non-factory overcloked vs factory overclocked overclocking higher. Only thing that thread shows me that the OP didn't get high clocks he had hoped.

From other users in that thread.

I bought a regular XFX card. So far I am fine @ 690|2300 with a 1550 shader clock. I haven't tried to push the memory much yet.

i clocked my GTX260 at 625 1350 2250 and it is stable but i cant see any changes in benchmarks (3dmark06 15800, 3dmark05 18790) i tried to clock it at 650 1400 2400 and it was stable too but i removed the overclocks cause i did not get better scores than without overclocking.

I flashed my GTX260 to 680 / 1400 / 2400 one hour ago and made many tests and it seems to be stable.

Agree to disagree. \

 

[F1shF4t]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: GaiaHunter

Originally posted by: Azn

You think 3rd party go through every single chip they bought from nvidia figuring out which would hit factory overclocks? :laugh:

What better cooling solutions are you talking about? Seems most 3rd party charge more for exactly the same thing as non overclocked boards. No better cooling whatsoever. Just a bios edit and sell it for $20 more. :disgust:

Anyway look at my chip in my sig it's a stock clocked GPU that hits higher than factory overclocked chips.

Are you telling me that nvidia, amd and intel don't have a clue about which of their chips perform better than others in a given waffer?

Are you telling me that 3rd parties just go overclock the chip and sell it as overclocked product without knowing it will actaully sustain the load or not?

Everyone gets goods chips and those fucking bad chips that wont clock 1 mhz higher once in a while.

What I meant is that considering prices, considering that factory overclocked GPU's most often than not also come with better and/or silent cooling solutions and, on average I bet they overclock higher, although some of those pre-oveclocked GPU's will be shitty chips that won't clock 1 mhz more.

Nvidia doesn't sell factory overclocked chips. Intel doesn't either. :brokenheart:

3rd party like EVGA are the ones selling overclocked chips. I have no idea what these 3rd party does to test these factory overclocked settings and neither do you. For all I know 3rd party just edit bios and sell it for more. They don't have some specially hand picked from fab in Taiwan. Only Nvidia decides that to put the high end bin chips in their flag ship models. Not 3rd party!

I got a foxcon 8800gtx, before my 4870s, and it came stock at 630, at this clock the card would artifact at exactly 84C. Have no idea how they tested it and missed the obvious stability issue. Anyways i ran it at that speed for a year with custom cooler which never hit above 75C . My Palit 4870 in turbo mode the ram will actually slightly artifact (not enough to notice but enough to be picked up by ati tool artifact tester) as I found a couple of days ago. So who knows how these cards are tested.

It actually might be cheaper for them to flash the card higher and just replace the cards which come back through returns. For mild factory overclocks that would actually work as most cards would hit the clocks anyways.

 

[MrK6]

What a biased and lazy review. Anyway, there's a reason the GTX's keep dropping in price while the 4870's are holding their value. Some idiot reviewer doesn't hold a candle to fundamental economics .

 

[Cookie Monster]

Wow, techreport is now biased and lazy. Id never thought to see this coming!

 

[cusideabelincoln]

To counter the negative reaction to the article (or really, to add to it), these results really do show the GTX 280 is a waste of money compared to a GTX 260 or HD4870. Looks like the only game in which a GTX 280 would make a noticeable difference in gaming experience is Crysis.

 

[yepp]

8xAA would of been nice, maybe it would of skewed the advantage too much for the HD4870 1GB.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln
To counter the negative reaction to the article (or really, to add to it), these results really do show the GTX 280 is a waste of money compared to a GTX 260 or HD4870. Looks like the only game in which a GTX 280 would make a noticeable difference in gaming experience is Crysis.

I mentioned that its a rip. Lucky I got mine for $285 thanks to Microsoft.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Wow, techreport is now biased and lazy. Id never thought to see this coming!

I have to agree. The TechReport is one of the best review sites on the web, they are neither biased nor lazy.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Wow, techreport is now biased and lazy. Id never thought to see this coming!

I have to agree. The TechReport is one of the best review sites on the web, they are neither biased nor lazy.

Apparently cookie only thinks they are a good site when they paint ATI in a good light. Ignoring reality of course.

TR is probably the best site for reviews. In fact over the years here on this board most people rely on their benchmarks over any other.

It's just a simple fact that the GTX260 is the better card over the 4870

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln
To counter the negative reaction to the article (or really, to add to it), these results really do show the GTX 280 is a waste of money compared to a GTX 260 or HD4870. Looks like the only game in which a GTX 280 would make a noticeable difference in gaming experience is Crysis.

You forget they are comparing an O/C'd 260+ to a stock 280GTX .. you DO know the 280 also OCs

just as the 1GB Radeon probably also O/Cs .. i need to check it out when i get mine on Monday .. but not bad for a ASUS 1GB 4870 for $269 after $20 MiR from NewEgg .. it seems "the card to get"

i just cannot imagine that anyone really recommends a 512MB version for the newest games at 19x12

 

[Calculator83]

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Factory overclocked vs non overclocked card. Yes really.

Same price card vs same price card.

:shocked:

ASUS 1GB 4870 is now even $269.99 after rebate. Still think it's fair
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814121277

ACHEEMM,, I got my 512mb at best buy the other day, taxes + shipping came out to 246 WITHOUT rebate. So this just goes to say nothing, but 4870 def has nvidia beat on pricing

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Wow, techreport is now biased and lazy. Id never thought to see this coming!

I have to agree. The TechReport is one of the best review sites on the web, they are neither biased nor lazy.

Apparently cookie only thinks they are a good site when they paint ATI in a good light. Ignoring reality of course.

TR is probably the best site for reviews. In fact over the years here on this board most people rely on their benchmarks over any other.

It's just a simple fact that the GTX260 is the better card over the 4870

Why and how are you allowed to continue posting here?

Ignoring that astonishing clusterfuck, if you bother to look at a range of reviews across the web (including our very own AT), the general (by which I mean non-insane nvidia/ati fanboy) consensus is that they trade blows pretty equally, and depending on what you play and at what res you should choose accordingly.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: SSChevy2001

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Factory overclocked vs non overclocked card. Yes really.

Same price card vs same price card.

:shocked:

ASUS 1GB 4870 is now even $269.99 after rebate. Still think it's fair
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814121277

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814143148

BFG for $284 AR with a 655 overclock.... You are right it's not fair, it's a down right ass beating for the 4870 :laugh:

 

[MrK6]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster Wow, techreport is now biased and lazy. Id never thought to see this coming!

I said the review was, not the site; reading comprehension is a good skill to possess.

Originally posted by: Wreckage It's just a simple fact that the GTX260 is the better card over the 4870

Funny how the general public disagrees. You should paint yourself green with a giant "N" on your back, then run through the streets to sway them.

A review has the duty to bring informative, clear, and unbiased information to the public. To use any random sample of card and not mention its specific perks over reference design is just that - biased and lazy. If they were to conclude that "this specific GTX 260, overclocked to 650MHz etc. performs better than the 4870 1GB" then I'd have no problem with that, as that's exactly what the benchmarks and tests show. However, to conclude that all GTX 260 "Reloaded"'s (I thought it was officially called the GTX 260 216 Core or something?) are a better buy than a 4870 1GB is showing total disregard for proper procedure and scientific method. I'm also not saying that this review is the only one like this. I think over the years I've seen a review at every hardware site (some more than others) that I've read and said in conclusion "well this is worth crap."