New GTX260 vs 4870 1GB

[dug777]

Originally posted by: MrK6

Originally posted by: Cookie MonsterWow, techreport is now biased and lazy. Id never thought to see this coming!

I said the review was, not the site; reading comprehension is a good skill to possess.

Originally posted by: WreckageIt's just a simple fact that the GTX260 is the better card over the 4870

Funny how the general public disagrees. You should paint yourself green with a giant "N" on your back, then run through the streets to sway them.

A review has the duty to bring informative, clear, and unbiased information to the public. To use any random sample of card and not mention its specific perks over reference design is just that - biased and lazy. If they were to conclude that "this specific GTX 260, overclocked to 650MHz etc. performs better than the 4870 1GB" then I'd have no problem with that, as that's exactly what the benchmarks and tests show. However, to conclude that all GTX 260 "Reloaded"'s (I thought it was officially called the GTX 260 216 Core or something?) are a better buy than a 4870 1GB is showing total disregard for proper procedure and scientific method. I'm also not saying that this review is the only one like this. I think over the years I've seen a review at every hardware site (some more than others) that I've read and said in conclusion "well this is worth crap."

Wreckage doesn't give a crap about the real world, and for whatever reason he's allowed to spread mindless green shit all over this forum.

Even the real QA'd 'green team' (keys and rollo principally) don't have time for him (and have repeatedly disowned him as far as nvidia is concerned, iirc).

Makes you wonder...

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: MrK6


A review has the duty to bring informative, clear, and unbiased information to the public. To use any random sample of card and not mention its specific perks over reference design is just that - biased and lazy.

Your post is "biased and lazy" as you clearly did not even take the time to read the article you are bashing. :roll:

They dedicated a whole paragraph to the clock speed of the GTX they tested....

The handsomely stickered card you see above is the GeForce GTX 260 AMP²! Edition from Zotac. (I would like to thank Zotac for making me type AMP²!, since I could use the exercise.) Not only does it have an additional TPC, but its clock speeds are quite a bit higher than early GTX 260s. The AMP²! has a 649MHz GPU core, 1404MHz shaders, and 896MB of GDDR3 memory at 1053MHz, up from 576/1242/999MHz on the first wave of GTX 260 cards. Those clock speeds are also, I should note, higher than the stock clocks for the GeForce GTX 280, which are 602/1296/1107MHz.

Plus they go on to talk about other cards (EVGA) and their clock speeds.

I swear this has to be the worst case of fanboy whining over an article, ever.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: dug777


Wreckage doesn't give a crap about the real world

In real world benchmarks it's clear the GTX 260 is far better than a 4870 (even one with 1GB of ram).

Dug you have been a unapologetic ATI fanatic from years back. So any reader can see that you are calling a kettle black and ignore your obvious personal attacks.

 

[WT]

Damn, and just when I thought I had finally reached a conclusion on what card to buy !!

aRGHHH .....

This build started in late June, and here is is October, so NOW I might as well wait until November. I've never waited on a card purchase for any amount of time, but this round seems to be forcing me to sit this dance out and wait til all of the hotties are out on the dance floor.

*taps fingers on desk*

PS - its been so frustrating for me that I ended up buying 2 9600GSO's just for something to putz around with until the high end card refresh comes out.

 

[toslat]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
In real world benchmarks it clear the GTX 260 is far better than a 4870 even one with 1GB of ram.

Unfortunately Nvidia don't agree, else they wouldn't be making efforts to position their cards better. History as shown that, like most companies, Nvidia responds to the market not to the consumer.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: dug777


Wreckage doesn't give a crap about the real world

In real world benchmarks it's clear the GTX 260 is far better than a 4870 (even one with 1GB of ram).

Dug you have been a unapologetic ATI fanatic from years back. So any reader can see that you are calling a kettle black and ignore your obvious personal attacks.

far better?

Wreckage you have been a unapologetic Nvidia fanatic from years back. So any reader can see that you are calling a kettle black and ignore your obvious personal attacks.

they look pretty close to me

Does someone want to trade me a new GTX260 for a 1GB 4870?

. . . for a short time .. i got an ASUS 1GB 4870 coming this Monday

 

[sourthings]

This is the same fanboy who will try to tell you ATI has not retaken the single card performance card crown and nvidia still has it in the 280. Another review from the same site showing the 4870X2 is faster than not just a single GTX 280, but two GTX280s in SLI.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15293/5

Yes that's right, the $500 X2 is faster than two GTX 280s coming in at $900. Now watch the fanboy explain how this is just not so. But still he'll insist the 260 'is far and away better than a 4870 1GB'

yes, sure it is

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: dug777


Wreckage doesn't give a crap about the real world

In real world benchmarks it clear the GTX 260 is far better than a 4870 even one with 1GB of ram.

Dug you have been a unapologetic ATI fanatic from years back. So any reader can see you are calling a kettle black and ignore your obvious personal attacks.

Odd that I used a 6600GT and 6800GS for the last four years or so then

Just a few examples from your TR review to prick your bubble:

The 4870 (plain jane 512) is faster than the 260 at every res except 2560x1200 in COD4 (and practically identical at that res).

It's faster at every res except 2560 in hl2, and again, practically meaningless difference there too).

It's faster at ET:QW at every tested res.

The 260 is faster at Crysis: Warhead (but hardly meaningfully, 1 fps min and .4fps avg over the 1gb, 3 fps min and 2.5 avg over the 512mb).

GRID just makes me lmao, they only test 2560 ( I suspect because every other review shows the 512mb card ripping up at GRID at anything below that res, without going back to check). The 4870 1GB obliterates even the GTX 280 there.

The ATI cards are better at Blu-Ray decode (apparently, according to TR).

Looking back at that it's hard to see what you based your claim that 'the GTX 260 is far better than a 4870 even one with 1GB of ram'...

Show me a straight oc'd 260/oc'd 4870 comparison and I'll enter into that debate then, but until then, you're struggling to make much sense.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: sourthings
This is the same fanboy who will try to tell you ATI has not retaken the single card performance card crown and nvidia still has it in the 280. Another review from the same sight show the 4870X2 is faster than not just a single GTX 280, but two GTX280s in SLI.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15293/11

Yes that's right, the $500 X2 is faster than two GTX 280s coming in at $900. Now watch the fanboy explain how this is just not so. But still insist the 260 'is far and away better than a 4870 1GB'

yes, sure it is

Nothing you linked to says anything of the sort

X2 is still $550 although it has recently been on sale and my GTX280 was $380, over 5 weeks ago

i don't have to be a fanboy of anything but truth to correct your misrepresentations [also]

it *appears* that the 4870/1GB is pretty damn equal to the new GT260
- fanboys will spin individual benches to make one look better than another

and GRID is *one* game where a GTX280 is no slouch either ..

 

[sourthings]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: sourthings
This is the same fanboy who will try to tell you ATI has not retaken the single card performance card crown and nvidia still has it in the 280. Another review from the same sight show the 4870X2 is faster than not just a single GTX 280, but two GTX280s in SLI.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15293/11

Yes that's right, the $500 X2 is faster than two GTX 280s coming in at $900. Now watch the fanboy explain how this is just not so. But still insist the 260 'is far and away better than a 4870 1GB'

yes, sure it is

Nothing you linked to says anything of the sort

X2 is still $550 although it has recently been on sale and my GTX280 was $380, over 5 weeks ago

i don't have to be a fanboy of anything but truth to correct your misrepresentations [also]

it *appears* that the 4870/1GB is pretty damn equal to the new GT260
- fanboys will spin individual benches to make one look better than another

and GRID is *one* game where a GTX280 is no slouch either ..

Fixed my link to start at the benchmarks, rather than the conclusions

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15293/5

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: sourthings

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: sourthings
This is the same fanboy who will try to tell you ATI has not retaken the single card performance card crown and nvidia still has it in the 280. Another review from the same sight show the 4870X2 is faster than not just a single GTX 280, but two GTX280s in SLI.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15293/11

Yes that's right, the $500 X2 is faster than two GTX 280s coming in at $900. Now watch the fanboy explain how this is just not so. But still insist the 260 'is far and away better than a 4870 1GB'

yes, sure it is

Nothing you linked to says anything of the sort

X2 is still $550 although it has recently been on sale and my GTX280 was $380, over 5 weeks ago

i don't have to be a fanboy of anything but truth to correct your misrepresentations [also]

it *appears* that the 4870/1GB is pretty damn equal to the new GT260
- fanboys will spin individual benches to make one look better than another

and GRID is *one* game where a GTX280 is no slouch either ..

Fixed my link to start at the benchmarks, rather than the conclusions

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15293/5

exactly what i mean about fans of either manufacturer *spinning* a single bench

what they said:

Well, this is a great game, but it's pretty much CPU limited with its quality settings maxed out along with 16X aniso and 4X AA. At 2560x1600, the multi-GPU configs do separate a little bit, and the 4870 X2 comes out ahead of three GTX 260s in SLI, let alone two.

so now we have a 2% difference - well within margin of error

 

[dug777]

For what it's worth I personally think you can't go wrong with either

What I do object to is the painting of something that to me at least is shades of grey as black and white.

I promise not to come back to this thread

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: sourthings
This is the same fanboy who will try to tell you ATI has not retaken the single card performance card crown and nvidia still has it in the 280.

What part of single GPU is lost on you?

NVIDIA still has the fastest single GPU

Actually looking at the benchmarks they have the 2 fastest single GPUs

Crossfire-on-a-stick is not a single GPU.....

You really should research this stuff before jumping in here and calling people names, you really make yourself look foolish.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: dug777


Wreckage doesn't give a crap about the real world

In real world benchmarks it's clear the GTX 260 is far better than a 4870 (even one with 1GB of ram).

Dug you have been a unapologetic ATI fanatic from years back. So any reader can see that you are calling a kettle black and ignore your obvious personal attacks.

Hmmm.

I don't think the new GTX260s are far better than the 1GB 4870s in general purpose gaming, they look pretty similar to me.

If I were buying now, I'd give the edge to the GTX260 for the PhysX, stereo, and CUDA, as well as better vendors, because nothing unique to the 4870 outweighs those benefits for me.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: dug777

Odd that I used a 6600GT and 6800GS for the last four years or so then

Odd that I have 2 laptops with ATI gpus and a 9700pro still going.....

So that clearly makes me "fair and balanced".

 

[OCGuy]

Nice find. I cant wait for the 260GX2. That is going to be a sweet card, it will be taking the top spot back.

 

[OCGuy]

fack...dp.

 

[sourthings]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: sourthings
This is the same fanboy who will try to tell you ATI has not retaken the single card performance card crown and nvidia still has it in the 280.

What part of single GPU is lost on you?

NVIDIA still has the fastest single GPU

Actually looking at the benchmarks they have the 2 fastest single GPUs

Crossfire-on-a-stick is not a single GPU.....

You really should research this stuff before jumping in here and calling people names, you really make yourself look foolish.

What's to research, you don't stick a GPU in your pcie slot, you put a video card in it. When they have the fastest video card, they have the performance crown. So you make yourself look foolish, and continue to represent the vein of cherrypicking you use in attempting to bolster nvidia.

I'm a performance fanboy, I used to own an 8800GTX, I no longer use nvidia, because they don't have the best performance.

Some people just care about a brand name, that's fine, to each their own.

Nvidia is not going to retake the crown until they release a brand new GPU. The die shrink is not going to do it, and their president has as much as said there are not going to be any sandwich cards released with the GT200s. They're too hot and big to make a sandwich card regardless.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: sourthings

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: sourthings
This is the same fanboy who will try to tell you ATI has not retaken the single card performance card crown and nvidia still has it in the 280.

What part of single GPU is lost on you?

NVIDIA still has the fastest single GPU

Actually looking at the benchmarks they have the 2 fastest single GPUs

Crossfire-on-a-stick is not a single GPU.....

You really should research this stuff before jumping in here and calling people names, you really make yourself look foolish.

What's to research, you don't stick a GPU in your pcie slot, you put a video card in it. When they have the fastest video card, they have the performance crown. So you make yourself look foolish, and continue to represent the vein of cherrypicking you use in attempting to bolster nvidia.

I'm a performance fanboy, I used to own an 8800GTX, I no longer use nvidia, because they don't have the best performance.

Some people just care about a brand name, that's fine, to each their own.

Nvidia is not going to retake the crown until they release a brand new GPU. The die shrink is not going to do it, and their president has as much as said there are not going to be any sandwich cards released with the GT200s. They're too hot and big to make a sandwich card regardless.

Actually your last paragraph is wrong. 260gx2 is in the works.

 

[sourthings]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: sourthings

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: sourthings
This is the same fanboy who will try to tell you ATI has not retaken the single card performance card crown and nvidia still has it in the 280. Another review from the same sight show the 4870X2 is faster than not just a single GTX 280, but two GTX280s in SLI.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15293/11

Yes that's right, the $500 X2 is faster than two GTX 280s coming in at $900. Now watch the fanboy explain how this is just not so. But still insist the 260 'is far and away better than a 4870 1GB'

yes, sure it is

Nothing you linked to says anything of the sort

X2 is still $550 although it has recently been on sale and my GTX280 was $380, over 5 weeks ago

i don't have to be a fanboy of anything but truth to correct your misrepresentations [also]

it *appears* that the 4870/1GB is pretty damn equal to the new GT260
- fanboys will spin individual benches to make one look better than another

and GRID is *one* game where a GTX280 is no slouch either ..

Fixed my link to start at the benchmarks, rather than the conclusions

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15293/5

exactly what i mean about fans of either manufacturer *spinning* a single bench

what they said:

Well, this is a great game, but it's pretty much CPU limited with its quality settings maxed out along with 16X aniso and 4X AA. At 2560x1600, the multi-GPU configs do separate a little bit, and the 4870 X2 comes out ahead of three GTX 260s in SLI, let alone two.

so now we have a 2% difference - well within margin of error

That is one comment tied to the COD4 benches, if you look through all the benches you'll see the X2 is faster than GTX 280 SLI and TRI-SLI as well in all the other games at all the resolutions. The one exception is Crysis. Although that review was done when Crysis wasn't scaling well on the X2. But I'll still bet the gt200s are faster for Crysis in SLI, other than that the X2 is faster than 2 280s across the board.

Pretty impressive for $400 less.

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: Dark Cupcake
MSI 4870 1024MB (780/3600)

i read a review showing a 4870 performing better using 500 core / 4400 mem than it did with 800 core / 3600 mem - in actual game framerates.

I'm looking for this review and still can't find it. lol

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: MrK6
I said the review was, not the site; reading comprehension is a good skill to possess.

You do realise that Scott Wasson pretty much writes all the GPU related articles? So according to you, the entire GPU section of the techreport is biased and full of lazy reviews.. since its done by the same idiot reviewer who supposedly cant hold a candle to the fundamentals of economics?!

I think you should read the review more thoroughly than making bold childish statements about the review and the reviewer. Hes a lot more credible than you are.

 

[Compddd]

Both are good cards.

 

[v8envy]

Read the review, didn't seem all that biased to me. It's hard to pick a 'fair' fight between red and green these days -- if you notice nearly every NV vendor OCs their cards while most 4870s (especially 1gb models) are stock clocked. A non-rebated equivalent MSRP head to head seems like the best of all worlds.

That said, I fail to see how the 260GTX even OCd is a 'far better' card. The performance differences between the two are going to be not noticeable outside of benchmarks.

Which means they compete solely on price, features, driver and vendor quality. I think that's where team green has the advantage -- EVGA, BFG and XFX > Visiontek > all ati partners. So the conclusion to walk away from here is: buy the cheaper of the two. In case of < $10 difference go with team green for better vendor support.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: sourthings

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: sourthings

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: sourthings
This is the same fanboy who will try to tell you ATI has not retaken the single card performance card crown and nvidia still has it in the 280. Another review from the same sight show the 4870X2 is faster than not just a single GTX 280, but two GTX280s in SLI.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15293/11

Yes that's right, the $500 X2 is faster than two GTX 280s coming in at $900. Now watch the fanboy explain how this is just not so. But still insist the 260 'is far and away better than a 4870 1GB'

yes, sure it is

Nothing you linked to says anything of the sort

X2 is still $550 although it has recently been on sale and my GTX280 was $380, over 5 weeks ago

i don't have to be a fanboy of anything but truth to correct your misrepresentations [also]

it *appears* that the 4870/1GB is pretty damn equal to the new GT260
- fanboys will spin individual benches to make one look better than another

and GRID is *one* game where a GTX280 is no slouch either ..

Fixed my link to start at the benchmarks, rather than the conclusions

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/15293/5

exactly what i mean about fans of either manufacturer *spinning* a single bench

what they said:

Well, this is a great game, but it's pretty much CPU limited with its quality settings maxed out along with 16X aniso and 4X AA. At 2560x1600, the multi-GPU configs do separate a little bit, and the 4870 X2 comes out ahead of three GTX 260s in SLI, let alone two.

so now we have a 2% difference - well within margin of error

That is one comment tied to the COD4 benches, if you look through all the benches you'll see the X2 is faster than GTX 280 SLI and TRI-SLI as well in all the other games at all the resolutions. The one exception is Crysis. Although that review was done when Crysis wasn't scaling well on the X2. But I'll still bet the gt200s are faster for Crysis in SLI, other than that the X2 is faster than 2 280s across the board.

Pretty impressive for $400 less.

Hold on

Why am *i* supposed to look to support YOUR premise

what you posted supports the opposite conclusion - twice!!

i don't see my x2 as faster than 280GTX SLi ... "in all the other games at all the resolutions"

My 280GTX is way faster than my 512MB 4870 at 19x12; actually 4870/512 is not suitable imo at all if you like AA/AF!
- now i AM getting a 4870/1GB version on Tuesday [as the PO is closed Mon] and will be able to comment on its ability to perform at 19x12 vs. 280GTX. i know for sure the 280 is a decently strong performer at that resolution.

i cannot say about the new 260. My offer stands. If someone wants to trade their new 260 for a 4870/1GB for a few days, i am up for it.