New Honda Accord - base 4 banger turbo or the Hybrid?

[SaltyNuts]

I'm going to buy a new Honda Accord soon. I was looking at the base model 4-banger turbo, since when I got one in 2013 I just went with the base model. But I see the base model is a little over $23k, while the hybrid is a little over $25k. I think there is only like $1200 or $1300 between them. So I am seriously considering the hybrid. I realize even with that little difference in price it will still take years to make it up in gas savings, but the hybrid has more HP, and I'll also be saving time not having to stop for as many fill-ups?

Thoughts? In particular I'm curious if anyone has heard anything good or bad about the new turbo engine in the base model, or the hybrid electronics, etc.

Thanks!

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Haven't heard anything bad about either the turbo engines or Honda's hybrid tech. Both are following current industry trends towards hybrids and small-displacement tubo motors.

I've heard general complaining about the small turbos, that they don't often get advertised mileage. But that's not a Honda-specific complaint. I don't hear that about hybrids.

The horsepower difference is marginal. Wouldn't worry about that one way or the other.

If the price difference is only $1300, break-even is actually pretty quick. (Depending on how much you drive and the price of gas, of course, but probably ~4 years.)

Why the Accord, specifically? (vs. the Camry, Altima, etc.) Just curious. :-D

 

[jlee]

2018 Honda Accord LX 1.5T 33mpg combined, vs hybrid at 47mpg combined. At 12k miles a year and $2.85/gallon, that's $1036 vs $727 in gas, so 4 year break even is just about spot on.

The 1.5 turbo can do 0-60 in 7.6 seconds - the hybrid is at 6.7. I would go for the hybrid -- the instant low end grunt of electric motors is nice..nearly a full second faster to get to highway speed doesn't hurt either.

 

[SaltyNuts]

Thanks guys!

Dave, I'm partial to the Honda as I have a 2013, which has been pretty rock solid. And of the 3 new cars (Accord, Camry and Altima) I think the Honda looks the best. Gets better reviews than the Camry as well (haven't seen any real reviews on new Altima yet, not sure they are even out yet).

Yall definitely have me leaning towards the Hybrid now - which I was kinda thinking anyways.

By the way, off the topic a bit, but I contacted a dealer rep through Costco. They say I need to come in and present my Costco card to get a price quote. Does that sound right? Must they offer a set price per Costco, or will they still try and screw you if they think they can get a higher price?

Thanks so much!

 

[RLGL]

Daughter has the turbo with auto, nice ride she likes it. I have driven it, might take a bit to get used to the tranny

 

[dave_the_nerd]

By the way, off the topic a bit, but I contacted a dealer rep through Costco. They say I need to come in and present my Costco card to get a price quote. Does that sound right? Must they offer a set price per Costco, or will they still try and screw you if they think they can get a higher price?

We went through the same rigamarole when we were shopping last time. Costco's customer service and the dealership person both told us the same thing - Costco has some reporting rules and dealerships have to validate your membership before they can tell you the prices.

The Costco price was within a few bucks of the dealer invoice price we got at a different dealership, so I'd assume that's basically what you'd be getting.

 

[SaltyNuts]

Got it Dave! Thanks!

 

[frozentundra123456]

Thanks guys!

Dave, I'm partial to the Honda as I have a 2013, which has been pretty rock solid. And of the 3 new cars (Accord, Camry and Altima) I think the Honda looks the best. Gets better reviews than the Camry as well (haven't seen any real reviews on new Altima yet, not sure they are even out yet).

Yall definitely have me leaning towards the Hybrid now - which I was kinda thinking anyways.

By the way, off the topic a bit, but I contacted a dealer rep through Costco. They say I need to come in and present my Costco card to get a price quote. Does that sound right? Must they offer a set price per Costco, or will they still try and screw you if they think they can get a higher price?

Thanks so much!

Personally, I have never cared for the styling of the Accord. Up until this year, I liked the styling best of the Altima, although overall, the other 2 are probably better cars. I also like the Kia Optima a lot. I like the new model Accord styling, while the new Camry is also very nice. All 3 are good cars, the Accord probably the best overall. Next would be Camry, a bit less sporty (although the new one supposedly handles better), but rock solid reliability. Altima is still a good car, but trailing the other two, and badly in need of a new makeover, which is coming for 2019 I guess. My current car is an Altima, because I got a used one, and they are considerably cheaper used than the Accord or Camry. I got the Altima off-lease about two years ago, and it has been good overall. No major problems, but a few niggling ones, most notably the TPMS sensors and just yesterday, I the middle of a tropical deluge I noticed that one windshield wiper was missing. Guess it fell off, or someone stole it.

As for hybrids, I used to not trust the reliability, but I guess the Toyotas at least are very good. City driving is where they shine. Most new intermediates can get 40 mpg on the highway, but not nearly as good as a hybrid city driving.

 

[aigomorla]

if you do a ton of in city driving, a hybrid is the winner.
If your doing mostly freeway driving, and one that isnt heavy on traffic, a non hybrid is a better choice as you will rarely run on the electric motor.

That eletric motor is only for for about 20mph, and then the gas engine kicks in.
If you have a heavy foot, again, the hybrid will not show off its full fuel savings.

The hybrid however will also hold its value better if you intend to sell or trade it in later.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

if you do a ton of in city driving, a hybrid is the winner.
If your doing mostly freeway driving, and one that isnt heavy on traffic, a non hybrid is a better choice as you will rarely run on the electric motor.

That eletric motor is only for for about 20mph, and then the gas engine kicks in.
If you have a heavy foot, again, the hybrid will not show off its full fuel savings.

The hybrid however will also hold its value better if you intend to sell or trade it in later.

Housemates hybrid does 10mpg better on the highway than the gas burning version. (38 vs. 28.)

 

[tsupersonic]

Housemates hybrid does 10mpg better on the highway than the gas burning version. (38 vs. 28.)

What? 28 MPG on the highway? Is that on the last generation V6? The current gen. 1.5L Turbo Accord should be getting 38 MPG highway, and the current gen. Hybrid model should be getting 47 MPG.

I have a Civic with the 1.5L Turbo and CVT, and it is a great daily driver. I can get 42-44 MPG highway. The Accord should be a nicer car inside / more comfortable, and should give you good mileage.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

What? 28 MPG on the highway? Is that on the last generation V6? The current gen. 1.5L Turbo Accord should be getting 38 MPG highway, and the current gen. Hybrid model should be getting 47 MPG.

I have a Civic with the 1.5L Turbo and CVT, and it is a great daily driver. I can get 42-44 MPG highway. The Accord should be a nicer car inside / more comfortable, and should give you good mileage.

Well, the one I'm talking about is a 2013 Lexus ES, not an Accord.

It's available either with a V6 or a hybrid-4. It's kinda big and heavy (the Camry hybrid with the same drivetrain is rated for >50mpg highway) - I don't think I'd want to try and drive one with just a "normal" 4-cylinder. Turbocharged maybe, but mileage drops so quick when you load those out of their "happy" zone that I'm not sure mileage would be all that great w/ a car this size.

I think the Toyota hybrid motors do some weird magic (Atkinson cycle?) that makes them less powerful but more efficient, even without the battery assist. At low loads, anyway, of the kind you'd see puttering along on the highway.

My dad's got an '06 Prius - the batteries don't charge much or work all that well, but he still gets ~45mpg (used to get 50+) which is still absurd for a car that size/age. (My '07 Focus was lucky to get 33.)

IOW, hybrid tech isn't completely useless on the highway, even if the electric motor isn't doing you much good by itself.

 

[RLGL]

What?

I have a Civic with the 1.5L Turbo and CVT, and it is a great daily driver. I can get 42-44 MPG highway

My '13 Civic with 2.0, auto, gets 42 highway

 

[tsupersonic]

What?

My '13 Civic with 2.0, auto, gets 42 highway

Yeah, 42-44 MPG on the current gen. hatchback on hilly highways with AC, passengers, luggage, doing 75-80 MPH, and heavy foot. The folks on the civicx forums report much better mileage. Take a look on fuelly, and you can compare different model years/engines/etc.

I do 99% city driving, but for the occasional summer road trip, it's been good.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Almost all modern hybrid models will still get better highway mileage versus the same non-hybrid model. Hybrids don't do bad on the highway, they just do super well in the city.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Almost all modern hybrid models will still get better highway mileage versus the same non-hybrid model. Hybrids don't do bad on the highway, they just do super well in the city.

Of course, but the point is that if you are already getting 40+ mpg (I can even do that with my Altima on the highway) another 5 or even 10 mpg is nice, but not a game changer. But in city driving, I probably get 20 to 25, while a hybrid could still get close to 40, a much more significant difference.

 

[Yuriman]

Some information here which doesn’t apply to the Accord hybrid.

The Prius and Volt both have orbital gearboxes in which the engine is connected to the wheels at any speed. It's a power split device, and the engine need not provide any power below a certain speed. These gearboxes are remarkably reliable, far more so than conventional automatics. They still (at least in the case of the Volt) have clutches to fall, fluid to be changed, and lots of bearings.

The Accord by contact doesn’t have a transmission at all, at least not in the conventional sense. There is no gearbox, no fluid. The electric motor is connected directly to the wheels, and the engine is not. It is for most intents and purposes what GM originally claimed the Volt was - an EV with a range extender. It's just that the battery only takes car car a few miles down the road before the engine fires up to recharge it. It drives like an EV below ~60mph. Above 60, there is a couchc that attaches the engine directly to the wheels via a 1:1 (?) gear in parallel with the electric motor, to improve efficiency.

I can only imagine it to be more reliable than any vehicle with a conventional gearbox. Honda's engines have always been bulletproof, it's their transmissions that usually land then in junkyards.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I went with a LE Camry. 4 banger non hybrid. Has a 6 speed transmission not cvt unlike the accord. I dislike cvt trans personally. I average 35mpg with a mix of 65/35 hwy/city. The accord looks funny to me.

 

[herm0016]

Some information here which doesn’t apply to the Accord hybrid.

The Prius and Volt both have orbital gearboxes in which the engine is connected to the wheels at any speed. It's a power split device, and the engine need not provide any power below a certain speed. These gearboxes are remarkably reliable, far more so than conventional automatics. They still (at least in the case of the Volt) have clutches to fall, fluid to be changed, and lots of bearings.

The Accord by contact doesn’t have a transmission at all, at least not in the conventional sense. There is no gearbox, no fluid. The electric motor is connected directly to the wheels, and the engine is not. It is for most intents and purposes what GM originally claimed the Volt was - an EV with a range extender. It's just that the battery only takes car car a few miles down the road before the engine fires up to recharge it. It drives like an EV below ~60mph. Above 60, there is a couchc that attaches the engine directly to the wheels via a 1:1 (?) gear in parallel with the electric motor, to improve efficiency.

I can only imagine it to be more reliable than any vehicle with a conventional gearbox. Honda's engines have always been bulletproof, it's their transmissions that usually land then in junkyards.

if the engine was connected to teh wheels all the time, the engine in the volt would have to be running all the time.... and its a planetary gear, not orbital. its clutched to the secondary electric motor. anyway... i'm sure the pri. runs with no bearings or lubrication....

 

[Yuriman]

if the engine was connected to teh wheels all the time, the engine in the volt would have to be running all the time.... and its a planetary gear, not orbital. its clutched to the secondary electric motor. anyway... i'm sure the pri. runs with no bearings or lubrication....

Depends on the year of the Volt as to how it’s set up. You can have a stationary gear even if it’s always connected.

Priuses have transmission fluid and bearings. I’m sure the Accord also has bearings, but far fewer. Drivetrain losses are much lower.

 

[Thump553]

You may also want to consider the new (2019) Insight. I saw it on Motorweek, was quite impressed and have been researching it a bit online. Mileage roughly comparable to Prius, looks better than current Prius (well heck that includes everything but maybe the Aztec) and IMO looks better the Accord.

I'm thinking this will cut into the sales of the Prius quite a bit.

 

[frozentundra123456]

You may also want to consider the new (2019) Insight. I saw it on Motorweek, was quite impressed and have been researching it a bit online. Mileage roughly comparable to Prius, looks better than current Prius (well heck that includes everything but maybe the Aztec) and IMO looks better the Accord.

I'm thinking this will cut into the sales of the Prius quite a bit.

I have to agree, it looks very nice compared to the Prius. I think it will be an uphill battle though, since Toyota, and especially the Prius has the reputation as the standout among hybrids. The insight has been around for a long time as well. I remember some years ago it sold decently at least, but somehow died out, at least in the US, while the Prius caught on.

 

[deathBOB]

Is there a resale value premium for the hybrid model? It may be more up front, but it may also be worth more on the back end. That always seems to get lost in the hybrid price discussion.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Is there a resale value premium for the hybrid model? It may be more up front, but it may also be worth more on the back end. That always seems to get lost in the hybrid price discussion.

Doesnt the battery pack eventually need to be replaced though? I would think that would drive down resale prices.

 

[Yuriman]

Doesnt the battery pack eventually need to be replaced though? I would think that would drive down resale prices.

Up until ~2016, most hybrids used NiMH batteries. We don't know how long the newer lithium packs will last, but chances are good they'll be a lot cheaper to replace.

The pack in my G1 Insight was still good at 18 years old when I sold it earlier this year. Sold the pack, that is.