New Keyboard Issue

Tophouse

Junior Member
May 28, 2014
9
0
0
Hi guys, i just get the Thermaltake Knucker and Sentey Cyph3r and i realise that my 4 number (not numpad) doesnt work while pressing spacebar + any letter , that is so anoying in games because i cant press "4" while moving and jumping....but the problem persists in others programs like notepad

the others numbers works perfectly

tip: my old cheap generic keyboard do the job with no issues
tip2: using ps2 doesn't change anything

any suggestion? i have no ideas


sry for my bad english
 

Ben90

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,866
3
0
The full thread
Phaedrus2129 said:
When you hit a key on your keyboard, you close a circuit. The circuit can be closed by the action of a collapsing rubber dome against a set of membranes, by action of a spring as it buckles catastrophically, as a pair of metal leaves pressing against a PCB, or even the discharge of a capacitive spring. However your keyboard is designed, you press a key and a circuit is closed. Specifically, two circuits are closed. These two circuits send a signal to your keyboard's controller, which looks at the circuits closed, then consults what's called a matrix (in the algebraic sense, not the Keanu Reeves sense). It uses the matrix to determine which key was pressed, then sends the code for that key to your computer.




Simple, right? What? No? YES IT IS TANJIT.

But it isn't always simple. What happens when you hit two keys simultaneously? When they're directly next to each other in the matrix, nothing happens. But if they're "diagonal"...



Here you've got the Q and the C, but there's a problem! The keyboard is also registering an E and a Z, because you've got intersections there. I'm going to ditch the regular terminology, because it's been corrupted and screwed up. This is called an ARTIFACT. Not a ghost. Got me? Good.

I am calling this type of key matrix a artifacting open matrix. It'll make sense in a minute.

Now, we can't have artifacts like that popping up. It'll cause problems while typing, and especially while gaming. So 99.999% of keyboards use BLOCKING to prevent this.



When you press C and Q, the keyboard's controller "blocks" all keys that could show up as artifacts. Thus only C and Q are sent, and not Z and E. But what if you *want* to hit Z and E?



You can't. You hold them down, but they don't register. They've been blocked.

I am dubbing this style of matrix a blocking matrix. This is the most common type of matrix found.


So what's the solution to this? How do you stop keys from being blocked? Simple. You unblock them. But what about artifacting? Simple. You remove the artifacting.

Whether by the addition of diodes to a PCB, or resistors to a membrane, or running a pair of traces to each key, or by adding dark magic to the heart of the controller, you eliminate artifacting. A given circuit denotes one, and only one, key.



Thus when you want to hit keys that would normally artifact:



It's kind of hard to figure out by eye, but trust me, each key is denoted with no artifacting and no blocking.

This is a non-artifacting open matrix. You can leave off the non-artifacting part because artifacting is very rare and occurs only on the trashiest keyboards ever to leave the dark pit of China's manufacturing industry.


Sometimes keyboards with blocking matrices (plural of matrix) do a bit of "matrix judo" and switch the positions of letters in the matrix. That way they can move artifacts, and thus blocking, to areas of the keyboard where you don't notice. Other times they just make the matrix different to make it different. No keyboard has a straight up-down, left-right excel-style matrix like the one I laid out; that applies to the standard IBM matrix and a handful of others on that part of the keyboard only. It looks a lot more complex when you map it all out.

A non-blocking matrix keyboard can register any number of keystrokes with no blocking or artifacting. However, it may not send all of them to the computer. If it's PS/2, then all keys can be sent at once and it's called NKRO. If it's USB, then traditionally it's limited to 6 keys and 4 modifiers (ctrl, shift, etc.). But some companies have found a way around that, allowing 7 or 11 or 17 or 24 keys to be registered over USB. Using my terminology, you won't have to bother differentiating between the different levels of KRO. It's just blocking, or open (or non-blocking, I guess). Simple. And all the ghosting nonsense? Forget it. Really. It's a word with two meanings, and it's been giving TwoCables seizures since day one, so it's best left in the dust bin of stupid terminology for now.



Hopefully this has cleared the cobwebs somewhat. Rejoice.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
but there is no software solution for this? i mean any way to "fix" it without opening it and using diodes and resistors?
The fix is to redesign the keyboard. Or, in a more normal case (some GH and DT users have, in fact, designed and built keyboards...), to get a different keyboard. A well-optimized 4KRO (MS Sidewinder X4, FI), or any 6KRO model, should do just fine.

No, there is no software solution. The problem is in the PCB layout and firmware of the keyboard.
 

Tophouse

Junior Member
May 28, 2014
9
0
0
The fix is to redesign the keyboard. Or, in a more normal case (some GH and DT users have, in fact, designed and built keyboards...), to get a different keyboard. A well-optimized 4KRO (MS Sidewinder X4, FI), or any 6KRO model, should do just fine.

No, there is no software solution. The problem is in the PCB layout and firmware of the keyboard.

How can i know wich one is "6KRO" ? because in my keyboard specs said " 6 keys roll over" but it doesn't

http://www.sentey.com/en/cyph3r-gs-5710


.
 
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Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
As far as they go, good question, and they probably don't know their own firmware. If it's 6KRO, there should be no combinations that will cause an unregistered key.

Best thing would be to get a keyboard that support NKRO over PS/2, that has been somewhat tested, and use PS/2. Most will be mechanical.

P.S. Kind of old, but you can still get most of them:
http://gaming.stackexchange.com/que...emove-the-limit-on-pc-keyboard-button-presses
 
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Tophouse

Junior Member
May 28, 2014
9
0
0
As far as they go, good question, and they probably don't know their own firmware. If it's 6KRO, there should be no combinations that will cause an unregistered key.

Best thing would be to get a keyboard that support NKRO over PS/2, that has been somewhat tested, and use PS/2. Most will be mechanical.

P.S. Kind of old, but you can still get most of them:
http://gaming.stackexchange.com/que...emove-the-limit-on-pc-keyboard-button-presses

Thx dude, last question... what about thermaltake meka ? looks cool and its very cheap

i mean the first meka, not g unit, not g1 , the cheaper meka
 
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Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Not sure. Being Thermaltake, I would be a wee bit leery. Are the Cooler Master or Ducky available? The Ducky Zero or Cooler Master Storm Quickfire XT (needs another word in the name, don't you think?) should be suitable, and will definitely be better built (also, you likely would want Brown, Red, Clear, or Black switches, probably in that order--Red and Black have no tactility, brown and Clear do).
 

Tophouse

Junior Member
May 28, 2014
9
0
0
Not sure. Being Thermaltake, I would be a wee bit leery. Are the Cooler Master or Ducky available? The Ducky Zero or Cooler Master Storm Quickfire XT (needs another word in the name, don't you think?) should be suitable, and will definitely be better built (also, you likely would want Brown, Red, Clear, or Black switches, probably in that order--Red and Black have no tactility, brown and Clear do).

only Corsair Vengeance K65 Compact, Steelseries G6 v2, Tt Esports Poseidon Z Illuminated and Meka/G1

...and blackwidow but i dont like it i dont know why
 
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Ben90

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
2,866
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't any modern keyboard that is quality enough to use PBT keycaps have NKRO? I figured since some of the boards mentioned are close to the $100 mark, there might be a couple boards that come with PBT keys close by.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
It uses Browns, and comes with O-rings pre-installed.

What key combinations do you need working, other than the one listed? I just so happen to have a G710+ sitting around.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't any modern keyboard that is quality enough to use PBT keycaps have NKRO? I figured since some of the boards mentioned are close to the $100 mark, there might be a couple boards that come with PBT keys close by.
Probably, but what of these uses PBT? Most have flashy lights, so use translucent single-layer ABS, or POM.
 
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Tophouse

Junior Member
May 28, 2014
9
0
0
It uses Browns, and comes with O-rings pre-installed.

What key combinations do you need working, other than the one listed? I just so happen to have a G710+ sitting around.

Probably, but what of these uses PBT? Most have flashy lights, so use translucent single-layer ABS, or POM.

i need
space+WASD+ 4
and obviously i need Alt, Control and Shift working with WASD and any number, i usually play MMORPG games, so i need that any letter and number working with any modifier included spacebar

right now i cant press 4 while WASD and spacebar/alt
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
I can press Q, W, E, A, S, D, Z, X, C, shift, win, ctrl, alt, plus the entire number pad, with no errors; also ` through 6 in the num row, with the same modifier and alpha keys listed, in Aqua'S Key Test.

Note that this is with LGS installed and running (for my mouse), should that make a difference.
 

Tophouse

Junior Member
May 28, 2014
9
0
0
I can press Q, W, E, A, S, D, Z, X, C, shift, win, ctrl, alt, plus the entire number pad, with no errors; also ` through 6 in the num row, with the same modifier and alpha keys listed, in Aqua'S Key Test.

Note that this is with LGS installed and running (for my mouse), should that make a difference.

is g710+ a solid choise? or should i go for the corsair ?
 
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