New laptop suggestions, Programming & Gaming

[Estex]

Hey folks!

I have 2 months to choose a new laptop that will need to last for the next 3 years, and I'll be primarily using it for programming and gaming (outside of daily tasks, multimedia etc.)
I'd love to have some input from the community!

My budget is pretty steep, but I'd like to keep it under $3000 CAD (Canadian) if possible.

Specs:
- CPU: Intel Skylake Core i7 6700HQ (or better)
- Display: up to 15.6"
- RAM: at least 16GB DDR4
- GPU: GTX 970M would be ideal
- Storage: at least 512GB SSD
- Weight: no more than 4.5lbs or so
- Thickness: less than 1 inch
- Battery life: at least 3 - 4 hours (the longer the better)

Considerations:
I'm going to be gaming mostly from home with the laptop plugged in, but programming on-the-go and in classes. This is why I need at least 4 hours of battery life, but the longer the better.

Matte, FHD display would be preferred, but it seems like most companies are making a weird switch to QHD, so as long as the battery life is okay, I'm not too picky about this.

The GPU is the trickiest part here because I don't know how far we are from having TB3 external GPU adapter hardware. Having an external GPU at home that I could plug into the laptop would make an immense difference, and open up my options considerably.



So far the laptops I've been looking at are these three:

- Dell XPS 15
- (Intel Core i7-6700HQ, 16GB DDR4, 512GB SSD, GTX 960M, 15.6" FHD 1920x1080)
- The Dell XPS 15 only has a 960M GPU, but would be amazing if only I had access to TB3 external graphics. Battery life is excellent and it has a matte FHD display with proper specs.

- MSI GS60 Ghost Pro
- (Intel Core i7-6700HQ, 16GB DDR4, 1TB HDD + 128GB SSD, GTX 970M 3GB, 15.6" FHD 1920x1080)
- The MSI GS60 Ghost Pro has the 970M as well as all the rest of the specs I need, but battery life concerns me here.

- Aorus X3 Plus V5
- (Intel Core i7-6700HQ, 16GB DDR4, 512GB SSD, GTX 970M 6GB, 13.9" QHD 3200x1800)
- The Aorus X3 Plus V5 isn't even out yet, if I'm not mistaken! It has great specs minus the smaller size and unfortunate QHD panel. I'm also a bit concerned about the battery here, but nobody knows what that will be like yet.


SO! Do you guys have any recommendations or thoughts on these or other laptops that might fit the bill? Again, I have 2 months to decide, so laptops that haven't been released yet are still an option, depending on how long it will be before release.

Also, does anyone know how close we are to having the TB3 external GPU adapters?

Thank you so much for your help.

 

[linkgoron]

I was also considering a new gaming laptop, however as I have a decent desktop, and don't have enough money , I just decided to buy the dell xps 15. I wouldn't buy it as my main gaming machine. Also, while I think that an eGPU is a real possibility to increase gaming performance, I would consider it only if the eGPU stays at home, as I assume they won't be very portable.

I think I've already seen some people with the X3 plus V5 over at the ocuk forums, but I'm not sure. I think that the v5 should be in the v4/3 are territory. I would've probably bought it instead of the XPS if I had unlimited funds. The v3 had the best cooling of all of the 13" laptops, a 6gb 970m and was all around the best 13" gaming laptop(according to reviews). The QHD is kind of unfortunate, but it appears as though no laptop is perfect.

You might also consider the MSI GS40, but I haven't seen any reviews of it yet. I was expecting reviews already, but I guess I was misinformed.

The GS60 received some decent reviews:
http://www.kitguru.net/laptops/zardon/msi-gs60-6qe-ghost-pro-4k-laptop-review/all/1/
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/laptops-portable-pcs/msi-gs60-ghost-pro-1307717/review
But the battery life is off putting:
"I've come to expect poor battery life on most of these power-hungry gaming laptops, but it seems to be an exceptionally terrible problem with the MSI GS60. With battery life averaging around 2 hours and 30 minutes, this is one of the least mobile-friendly gaming laptops I've tested, despite MSI making it so thin and light for the sake of portability."
So, needing that power brick next to you all the time kind of ruins the portability of the laptop.

You should also look at another recent thread about lightweight gaming laptops:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2451868

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

FYI there's a huge gap in performance between the GTX 970M and the GTX 960M. I would stay at 970M and above. 960M isn't a real consideration if you're serious about gaming. Tragic, because the XPS 15 seems like a sweet machine. Also check out the upcoming MSI GS40. It's lighter and smaller than the GS60 and gets ~4 hours of web surfing with max brightness, but the GS60 can have a 4K screen while the GS40 probably won't have that as an option.

The GS40 has a 61 Wh battery versus the GS60 with 52 Wh. PLUS the GS40 has a smaller screen which will be less power hungry than the GS60.

And upgrading the SSD and RAM is straightforward since they both take standard parts.

 

[giantpandaman2]

You'd probably get a lot more power and portability spending 2000 on a gaming desktop computer and 1000 for a portable laptop.

 

[Estex]

First, thank you guys so much for your input!! I've actually had a lot to consider already from your three comments.

You make a damn good point about the eGPU mostly being for at-home use, linkgoron, and I think that's where I'd end up using it the most. That would be fine, but as giantpandaman2 said, I'd probably get more out of a gaming desktop + a good high-end laptop without paying a premium for the X3. I currently have a desktop PC that needs to be upgraded/rebuilt, so if I spend a bit less on something like the XPS 15 or GS40, I can put those extra funds into a new desktop build next year.

That being said, I still need something that's very powerful with solid battery life, and I'd love to have a GTX970M so that I'm able to game on-the-go, so I had a look at the MSI GS40 as per FBB's suggestion, and...wow!

The MSI GS40 Phantom is not only 1lb lighter than the XPS 15 model I'd be getting, but it can actually be upgraded to 32GB of RAM. Considering the small size, light weight, amazing keyboard, FHD panel, and the ability to upgrade the SSD and RAM, It's a really good option. Oh, and it's also listed on amazon.ca for $2,099 CAD whereas the XPS 15 would cost me around $2,900 CAD, and the V3 would be well over $3,000 CAD.

I can't wait to see what the reviews say about the GS40 when it's out (and from what I've read, it won't be long now). The main concerns that I have about the GS40 come down to battery life and physical construction. I understand the pre-production model involved a plastic bottom panel, which I'm not keen on. I'll just have to wait and see what the finished product looks like. Still, it looks damn appealing so far!

If the GS40 isn't what I need, then the XPS 15 will have to be it, and I'll rebuild my beastly desktop.

linkgoron, can I ask how you like your XPS 15 so far? Any complaints (short of the GPU)?

Thanks again for your input, guys


EDIT: I've discovered that I can get the XPS 15 with FHD matte display for a reasonable price, so these two are even more comparable. Here's the rough price breakdown for both:

$2,542 CAD - Dell XPS 15
$2,373 CAD - MSI GS40 6QE Phantom

 

[linkgoron]

I don't have the XPS 15 yet, and it will be a few weeks until I can get my hands on it. I ordered the i7/512/16gb/FHD model for ~1600 USD I think. On the canadian dell, the same laptop costs 2,250 CAD (is that without taxes?). You can also get a student discount, which will lower the price a bit more.
http://www.dell.com/ca/p/xps-15-9550-laptop/pd?oc=nxps15550_bt_h1630pe&model_id=xps-15-9550-laptop

Note that you can put 32gb RAM inside the XPS (2x16), and also replace the SSD, at least according to the service manual. I would wait a week or so, and see what other people have to say about it.

Also, as I said in the other thread, the new Clevo 14" (P640RE @ 4.4 lbs) should be out "soon". I've seen it listed already in Europe, but there has been no official reveal as of yet.

However, it appears that "soon" is subjective, and things move much slower than I thought in the laptop world, so who knows what soon means. I kept waiting for GS40 and Clevo reviews, and I had a small time frame to actually buy the laptop.

 

[JustMe21]

The P35X v4 seems interesting.

http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5454#kf

It only has a Broadwell i7-5700HQ, but it does run at 2.7 GHz while the Skylake i7-6700HQ is 2.6 GHz. I also has a Geforce GTX 980M, can fit 4 drives, and has a 75.81 Wh battery. It is a bit heavier at 4.85 lbs.

 

[linkgoron]

The P35X v4 seems interesting.

http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5454#kf

It only has a Broadwell i7-5700HQ, but it does run at 2.7 GHz while the Skylake i7-6700HQ is 2.6 GHz. I also has a Geforce GTX 980M, can fit 4 drives, and has a 75.81 Wh battery. It is a bit heavier at 4.85 lbs.

Note that the whole gigabyte line is supposed to be replaced with v5s during November. Some of them are already available for order/pre-order at ocuk.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18697666

 

[Estex]

I have a feeling the Gigabyte would be too heavy for my needs. The specs say 5lbs for the new P35X V5. The price is also way too steep at nearly $3,900 CAD (after taxes).

The Clevo P640RE is going to be one gorgeous machine, but it's quoted as (supposedly) having only 180 minutes of battery life WITH power-saving mode on. Honestly, if that ends up being the case for the final product, then that just won't cut it.

God I hope you're right about the RAM and SSD being upgradeable in the XPS 15 though. Worst case scenario...I may settle for the 960m and get the same exact model you bought. That screen is so lovely, and the build quality appears to be incredible. We'll see what the GS40 has in store first. I have up to 2 months to choose, so there's no rush, and I'm sure more than a few new laptops will be popping up in that time :thumbsup:


Just FYI: Some MSI GS40 reviews are slowly trickling in on Youtube. Haven't found any comprehensive and extensive reviews yet though.

 

[Estex]

For those of you interested in the MSI GS40 Phantom, here is the first MSI video about the laptop:
https://youtu.be/mJ8kDogwQpQ

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

All I'm waiting for is more reviews on the cooling solution and how much or how little it throttles.

 

[Estex]

God it would be nice if the next version of the Gigabyte P34W would come out at the same time... Who knows, maybe they'll fix the thermals! (Not counting on it)

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

God it would be nice if the next version of the Gigabyte P34W would come out at the same time... Who knows, maybe they'll fix the thermals! (Not counting on it)

Considering they're on v5 of the P34W I don't think thermals is a high priority for them...

 

[Estex]

http://geekfolk.blogspot.ca/2015/11/msi-gs40-6qe-phantom.html

First review of the week.
Disappointingly, they report that the body of the GS40 is in fact plastic :\
Still waiting for a comprehensive review that covers battery life, but ultimately I think the plastic body kills it as an option for me.

Guess I'll be looking at the XPS 15 again.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

http://geekfolk.blogspot.ca/2015/11/msi-gs40-6qe-phantom.html

First review of the week.
Disappointingly, they report that the body of the GS40 is in fact plastic :\
Still waiting for a comprehensive review that covers battery life, but ultimately I think the plastic body kills it as an option for me.

Guess I'll be looking at the XPS 15 again.

Out of curiosity, why is plastic a deal killer? The only thing I can think of is that it's not as thermally efficient.

I have an Asus ultrabook with metal body, but the metal is so flimsy (at least the underside bit) that it barely contributes much structural support and probably very little thermal management. In fact, it's even dented from a fall.

 

[Estex]

To be honest, it comes down largely to personal preference.
This laptop will be seeing a lot of travel, and so far the best laptops I've had have been made of metal. Granted, I'm not going to be judging it solely on the physical construction, but I love the feel and look of a metal laptop. That's superficial, I realize, but it is what it is.

The thermals are an issue, and when spending such a large amount of money on any laptop, I look for a balance between internals and external structure. Poor thermals and a plastic body alongside less-than-adequate battery life would suck a little too much for me. Once I know what the battery life and thermals are like, I'll have a better idea of where I stand.

That being said, my mind's not completely made up yet, and I'm doing my best to be patient I need to see what the GS40 is like in spite of the plastic body. It may turn out that the few drawbacks aren't as big a concern as I imagine they could be.

For interest's sake, I'll post a pros and cons list of the XPS 15 vs. the GS40 when more people have their hands on them.

Damn I wish the GS60 had at least 4 hours of battery life, etc.

 

[Redstorm]

I just brought the Lenovo y700 15.6 for exactly that, programming and a bit of gaming, my main reason for this was the keyboard layout with full sized arrow keys, as navigating around code with the half height arrow key abominations is terrible.

Can do all of what you have asked for and is on a 10% discount at newegg ATM.

 

[Estex]

Hey, thanks for the suggestion, Redstorm!
I actually checked out your thread about the silly little excuses for arrow keys, and subsequently had a look at the Lenovo Y700. Looks like a damn fine device! If it were smaller (under an inch) in thickness, I'd be more keen, but unfortunately it's just too big. I'm hoping to find something that's closer to 20 mm in thickness (or less). Silly, I know, but there are enough options to pick from that it's not a pipe-dream.

I'm going to be doing some research on the latest Razer Blade as well, just for comparison's sake. I kind of wrote that one off initially, but I don't recall why. Probably because they haven't given it an update yet with the Skylake processors.

It's funny to me how a search like this can go back-and-forth for a while, where days of deliberation can feel like ages, and your choices change constantly! I guess that's half the fun

 

[Estex]

We finally have a very comprehensive review of the latest XPS 15 (model 9550).

For all those interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRUgx8A9q_w

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

The XPS 15 has always been nice. Unfortunately over the years I've always sacrificed gaming performance for portability, getting lappies with cards that can barely do modern games at native resolution with minimum settings.

Every release of a new game has me wanting because I'm literally missing out on all of the nice modern visuals since my machine can't run it.

So unfortunately for me, the XPS15 is out because it doesn't have the 970M. The 960M is a middle of the road video card at best and I just don't feel like compromising gaming performance anymore. So it's either the P34W or the GS40 for me. The GS40 is looking like the better system but I wish there was a 4K screen option. With proper scaling small text wouldn't be an issue and you could game happily at 2K and still have native resolutions.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Hmmmm... is the only place to get the GS40 here?

http://www.xoticpc.com/msi-gs40-phantom001-p-8719.html?wconfigure=yes

 

[Estex]

Hmmmm... is the only place to get the GS40 here?

http://www.xoticpc.com/msi-gs40-phantom001-p-8719.html?wconfigure=yes

Nope!

GenTech PC
http://www.gentechpc.com/system_dept.asp?dept_id=SD-009

HIDevolution
http://www.hidevolution.com/msi-gs4...6ghz-3g-970m-16g-ram-128g-ssd-1tb-hdd-14.html

NCIX
http://www.ncix.com/detail/msi-gs40-phantom-i7-6700hq-0b-118211.htm

B&H
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...s_10_14.html?gclid=CPHu-9PCiskCFQIQaQodIksCeQ


And probably a bunch of others.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Cool!

BTW, which is better? The prices are the same for these upgrades on the HIDevolution site.

Samsung SM951 256GB M.2 PCIe x4 SSD
Samsung 950 Pro 256GB M.2 NVMe PCIe x4 3D-VNAND SSD

I've also read in reviews that the Killer Wireless WiFi card introduces lag. Would it be better to just go with the Intel Wireless-AC 7265 card?

 

[Estex]

Honestly, I'm afraid I don't know.
According to this review of the 950 pro, it's better than the SM951.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...rst-pcie-m-2-nvme-ssd-is-an-absolute-monster/

I've also heard that Intel wireless is the way to go. Unfortunately I'm not on the up-and-up with these things. I can say, though, that I know the Killer wireless cards used to have issues with their drivers being crappy (first-hand experience). From what I've been reading, those issues have been resolved. I doubt you're going to have a huge issue with either, but I'd do some extensive research first to see if people are reporting common issues.

There's always a certain amount of salt to be taken with what you read on reviews and issues that people report because there will be defects with a certain percentage of products in the same line no matter what. Take, for example, the XPS 15. I've read SO many forum posts and discussions online complaining about problems like colour fade in the screen at different viewing angles, and problems with the keyboard/space bar. The trouble is that the vast majority of what's written about the product will be negative because nobody bothers writing, "Everything's great! I've had no issues." It's safe to assume that most of the laptops shipped from this line are actually perfect, and we don't hear about them because of that. The same goes for any product.

A lot of people don't know why certain brands of products tend to have more issues than others.
From my understanding, this is how it works:

(this scenario is hypothetical, by the way. Just using it as an example)
A company like RCA can and will produce a stereo system that's a good as something Sony produces.
Where they differ is in the testing and manufacturing of those products, such that RCA ends up having higher tolerance for defects. That means 5% of all the units they produce can/will end up being defective in some way, or they'll break down more quickly. Sony, on the other hand, will have a lower tolerance for defects, and only 1% of their products released will have issues. That doesn't sound like a lot, but when you consider the number of units being distributed, the difference between 1% and 5% is huge. Because of this, people will hesitate more when buying something from RCA rather than Sony.

So, the issues with the Killer Wireless card may not be universal to that product. It could just be that a larger percentage of people have experienced issues with it than people who have had issues with the Intel card.

Just my 2 cents, and how I'd think about this when choosing one or the other!

 

[sze5003]

I have the xps15 i7, 256gb model. Sending it back to the repair depot today because it arrived with a corrupt recovery partition.

Also, speakers crackle and rattle when turning them up from the volume icon slider in the task bar. My screen flickers at 10% brightness. This is the 56w battery model.

The build quality is excellent and I love the machine but I'm disappointed.