New lcd: 191t or 172t?

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Fant
Just throwing my 2 cents in....the 191t is great for static images but has a very bad problem with severe ghosting on grays...if you want to read more about it there is a HUGE thread on arstechnica.... its the only problem...i still live with this and like my 191t...it is very asthetically pleasing....

There's an Anandtech article and fairly extensive on the 191T, and it does discuss the streaking on grays. IIRC, it says it's only a fairly occasional problem, evidently depending on how you are using it at any particular time. It also says a lot of other LCD's have a similar problem. Read the article.

 

[jcoltrane]

As I wait patiently for my new rebadged 191t to arrive from Dell (a wonderful Christmas present from my wonderful fiance), I worry about the response time and the ghosting/streaking in greyscale that others have reported. As I am a gamer (not hardcore, but I do enjoy the occational UT2003 session) and I do use my pc for video a fair amount, I wonder whether I should stick with this monitor or send it back and go with the 17" Hitachi CML174. It has a 15ms response but I find nothing but conflicting information on its color support, some folks claiming it is only 18 bit, others 24 bit, and no official word from Hitachi.

Samsung 191t or Hitachi CML174?

Any advice? Please?

 

[chizow]

Stick with the Dell. That 2'' VIS is a LOT of real estate. Try out the Dell, if you don't like it send it back. I don't think you'll be disappointed though. I'm a hardcore gamer, and my 1900FP handles everything I throw at it. It might be that my eyes have adjusted, but I don't even notice the slight ghosting I saw when I first got it. Maybe the pixels need some time to burn in? I not only run games on it, but also DVDs, CATV, my XBox, and every type of video format on the PC. Its a simply wonderful monitor. My bro and bro-in-law kept marvelling at it on X-mas Eve. Played a bunch of games on it like BF1942, MW4: Mercs, JKII and all my XBox games and they didn't mention ghosting a single time.

Chiz

PS and definitely thank your wife....what a killer gift!!!!

 

[blues008]

up

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: jcoltrane
As I wait patiently for my new rebadged 191t to arrive from Dell (a wonderful Christmas present from my wonderful fiance), I worry about the response time and the ghosting/streaking in greyscale that others have reported. As I am a gamer (not hardcore, but I do enjoy the occational UT2003 session) and I do use my pc for video a fair amount, I wonder whether I should stick with this monitor or send it back and go with the 17" Hitachi CML174. It has a 15ms response but I find nothing but conflicting information on its color support, some folks claiming it is only 18 bit, others 24 bit, and no official word from Hitachi.

Samsung 191t or Hitachi CML174?

Any advice? Please?

No advice here but I hope you post back when your 191T arrives and let us know what you think.

 

[blues008]

Any ETA on the 172T review?

 

[Judgement]

Still waiting on that review, I'm currently stuck between the 191T and the 172T also.

 

[Fun Guy]

Best option is the 181T, which is discontinued.

The 18" is 1280 x 1024 resolution at .27 dot pitch, which is the best clarity. The 191T is .28, which leaves the display somewhat grainy due to increased space between pixels. A 17" at 1280 x 1024 is a little too small, IMO.

They're all pretty much that same panel (170 degree viewing angle, 500:1 contrast, 250 brightness).

If you want a 181T PM me and I may be able to locate one for you.

 

[ericboo]

Originally posted by: Fun Guy
Best option is the 181T, which is discontinued.

The 18" is 1280 x 1024 resolution at .27 dot pitch, which is the best clarity. The 191T is .28, which leaves the display somewhat grainy due to increased space between pixels. A 17" at 1280 x 1024 is a little too small, IMO.

They're all pretty much that same panel (170 degree viewing angle, 500:1 contrast, 250 brightness).

If you want a 181T PM me and I may be able to locate one for you.

Too small? Who are you, Mr. Magoo?

 

[blues008]

For those who bought either - where did you buy your monitor at?

 

[Fun Guy]

Too small? Who are you, Mr. Magoo?

I've had all three, so I think I know what I like, and I also know what is too 'small' or too 'grainy' for me.

 

[blues008]

up for the new year.

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: arswihart
By the way, that $100 rebate on the 191t is only if you buy it from BestBuy for $899, what a joke. Newegg has it for $790 with free shipping

That is not the only place to find the rebate...I bought mine from Compusa and they printing me out the rebate coupon right there

Ausm

 

[Eman1]

Hi,

My 2 cents regarding the Dell 1900FP Lcd is that it is a great monitor. I'm not a hard core gamer but I rarely notice any ghosting. Ocassionally I do notice some grey color ghosting but I'm just about use to it.

For color and space when viewing text or while on the net, it is beautiful!! My friends always oouu and ahhh when they come by.

I bought mine from dell 2 months ago at $694.

Oh, and by the way, using DVI and Windows ClearType font Techonology there is no noticable grain.

Eman

 

[tgonc]

Originally posted by: AnandTech Deals
The 172T is an excellent monitor. We will be posting a review about it in a few days. the 191T is only the first revision on the 19" series, while the 172T is the second revision. You will not be dissapointed with either of these monitors. Just to put things in perspective though, I have both from reviews we did here, and the 172T is my current monitor =)

Cheers,

Kristopher Kubicki
AnandTech Editor

INTERESTING! I was inbetween the 172T and the 191T for a while but due to a good price and availabilty I went for the 191T. I am wondering if the 172T would have been better now...grass is always greener. Regardless both are great monitors.

I would say for external aesthetics and non moving pictures/Windows/photos/browsing the 191T. For gaming I would say 172T. I have experienced ghosting in CS, armericas army and in Battlefield 1942. I still have some questions.

1. Is there really a NOTICEABLE difference between DVI and Analogue, esp for gaming. If there is I have not noticed it. I have still not plugged in my DVI cable because of this. Please can someone explain why?

2. Why despite Samsung saying 25ms in both 172t and 191t is there, (at least from the reviews) more ghosting on the 191t.

3. How can I get maximum perfomance out of my 191T when gaming? I have a GF4 4200Ti 64Mb so what res should I game on? Some say the native at 1280x1024 but isnt that rather high? I run on 800x600 for the most part.


Many Thanks
Tim

 

[bontu]

I just got my 172t. its pretty awesome. As far as I can tell from playing Unreal Tournament 2003 there isnt any ghosting.

its best to play games at the native resolution though. if you dont the picture looks like its zoomed in to fit the screen especially games at 800x600 like warcraft3. playing CS @ 1024x768 looks acceptable but still doesnt look that great.
UT2003 @ 1280x1024 looks fantastic however.

with your ti4200 you should be able to run games at the native resolution with smooth framerates.

oh I couldnt tell the difference between analog (after hitting the auto button to let it find the best settings) and dvi. Also using dvi some menu options are disabled on the 172t like you cant use the auto button,change contrast and change fine/coarse settings, but thats probably only needed for analog input.

 

[tgonc]

But doesnt gaming at higher resolutions affect the performance of the LCD?? ie Playing @ 800x600 requires less pixels changes hence smoother frame rates than 1024x768?

What is the best refresh to use for gaming? 60hz, 72Hz or 75Hz?

So you didnt notice any difference in DVI aswell. Perhaps LCD technology has not quite reached DVI cable capabilities yet.

No ghosting whatsoever in CS with the 172T?? Sounds good! Ok an acid test....When you play DE_DUST2 @ 1024x768 RUN past the 'B', (Bomsite B) written in red on the wall in the dark corridor whilst looking at it, do you not see any severe ghosting on the red? Curious to know!

Bye
Tim

 

[bontu]

ah ok there is some slight ghosting on the red B on the wall. I had to directly look at it and strafe left and right to notice it more. Its not severe at all, and goes away quickly sine the pixels are already changing. Its maybe -- to --- (at worst)about that length in the reddish trail. (oops forgot some people might be at different resolutions with different size monitors so the dashses might be longer/shorter depending on your setting im at 1280x1024 on a 17" lcd soo.. anyways its about 1/8th of an inch in the trail length)
During normal game play I didnt notice it unless you're specifically looking at it. Unless your eyes are more sensitive then mine.

Smoother Frame rates? I think that depends on your video card. I didn't notice any difference in frame rates from 800x600 and 1024x768.

As far as I can tell 60hz from 75hz doesnt affect anything when playing CS, that red ghosting on the B is still the same no matter the resolution or refresh rate.

 

[phlip]

I didn't get any ghosting at all plahing games on the 172T using an analogue cable, but I now hav a DVI, and althoug there still is not any ghosting in games.. the refresh rates did seem to dramatically increase. I tested this by dragging a window from corner to corner on the monitor to see how smooth it was, much much smootehr on DVI. I have developed a white stuck pixel in the bottom right hand corner of the screen, which due to the high resolutoin the monitors running at, is hardly visible at all unless you raelly get up close and look, on a very dark background. just a point to note, on a larger screen running at the same resolutoin, a dead pixel will show up more because of their physical size.. obvious but yeah.

 

[Muse]

My sister-in-law just got a 191T but it never occured to me to tell her she should think about getting a new video card that supports DVI output. She's not going to be doing any gaming or motion stuff either, probably. She browses the Internet, does email, and AFAIK, that's about it. Should I tell her to get a video card with DVI output?

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Muse
My sister-in-law just got a 191T but it never occured to me to tell her she should think about getting a new video card that supports DVI output. She's not going to be doing any gaming or motion stuff either, probably. She browses the Internet, does email, and AFAIK, that's about it. Should I tell her to get a video card with DVI output?

No, although it may improve her contrast/brightness/clarity and any need for screen adjustment, she probably won't think the difference is worth the cash outlay on a card with DVI (although some are cheap).

Chiz

 

[tgonc]

Bontu.
Ok if the 172t has ghosting on that section in CS well then I think ultimately ghosting still exists to some extend in all LCDs. I suppose it depends on your expectations of an LCD. If you are a fussy git like me then you start with high expectations and notice any little deviation from a perfect picture.

As for CS. -- to --- is severe ghosting in my opinion. I get the same effect on my 191T. So perhaps "ghosting opinion" is in the eye of the beholder. We will just have to wait until the LCD catches up with CRTs before gamers can be 100% satisfied. In the mean time I will have to make do with the ghosting on my 191T. I actually noticed the ghosting is more obvious in CS than in Battlefield 1942. I am not sure if has something to do with the background colours.

I will try some more tests with the DVI but as yet I am not convinced it helps refresh rates.

Anyone else who has actually notice better/faster performance with DVI over Analogue for gaming?

 

[bontu]

ah I figured severe would be like all over the screen like in some other models. But yeah ghosting is more obvious in CS compared to like UT2003. I guess its the choice of colors which makes ghosting seen more easily. maybe the greater the contrast in the surrounding colors the more apparent it is.

 

[The Sauce]

I was just in BB yesterday playing JK2 and MOHAA on an Alienware system hooked up to a 191T. The monitor is georgeous and I didn't notice any ghosting, BUT...whenever I would turn or strafe in the game I would notice certain colors disappearing during the movement. Particularly green and red. AS soon as I stopped they would come back on. IS that what ghosting is? It was pretty annoying to watch.