New licensing terms for Windows Vista are a shocker.

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: Archman
If my memory serves me correctly, wasn't there some similar fear with Windows XP, and the fear that issues would arise from the licensing rules, and the phone in to validate Windows ?

Yeah, everyone was scared that they might have to jump through hoops to get their OS installed, such as phoning Microsoft... Nowadays that's just considered normal so Microsoft is upping the ante.

 

[masteraleph]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
If you pay even slight attention to the international forum discussion, you will be find that a tons of people are extremely unhappy with microsoft decision on the scheme and will do anything to stop this, even by hacking or cracking.

So you're comparing "even hacking or cracking" to "notif angry gamer kill Bill first. Don;t be surpise if it really happen...It is time people will take a stand agaibnst microsoft oppression. It end at Vista, it will end now."?

Look, will, Vista be cracked? Certainly. Will some people take advantage of that? Certainly. Is this any different from the situation with XP (the cracking I mean, not the EULA)? No. Do I disagree with the new EULA? Without a doubt. Do I think someone should take a gun to Bill Gates? Absolutely not.

You can complain about it all you want, but the way you've phrased it is, at best, puerile. I have no objection to the sentiment of anger or annoyance whatsoever, only the manner in which it has been phrased.

 

[stash]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
Not if angry gamer kill Bill first. Don't be surpise if it really happen. A gun is like a grand, and that is only 2 vista ultimate after tax. If vista last 5-6 years like xp, there will be a whole lot of angry people that will be more than happy to kill Bill just as an act of revenge. If peopel are willing to stab each other over a ps2, and it happy during ps2 launch, imagain what will vista do to people, gamer and business alike. It is time people will take a stand against microsoft oppression. It end at Vista, it will end now.

First, you need to be careful with what you say. These statements can get you in trouble with the law if the right (or wrong, depending on your view) people see them.

Second, oppression? Hyperbole much?

 

[sanitydc]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
i really don't care exactly how Microsoft impliments this, because it's something like politics, where the politicians will "leak" a policy change, just to see how it flies with the public. Since I'm not a fan of this kind of tactics, I'll simply keep my old Windows...and Linux. When companies get the idea, that it doesn't pay to jerk the public around, maybe they will finally start doing business more reasonably. This is something like renting a house, no matter how long you have lived there, and how much you have paid for that privilege, you never gain any rights. It's like Microsoft owns everybody's computer and we simply are renters.

MS will never own my computer, I and only I own it. I own my copy of XP. If they come knocking wanting my system or OS they ain't gonna get it

ha, read the license, your pretty much borrowing XP from microsoft... lol

 

[pcgeek11]

MS will never own my computer, I and only I own it.

You sir are correct you do own the computer, but Microsoft owns the Windows OS, all you have is a license to USE IT according to their terms. If you don't agree to that then you should evict them from YOUR Computer and install another OS that you can own... Open source...

pcgeek

 

[sonoma1993]

if this stuff is true, I'll be staying with window xp sp2 for as long as I can, and work on moving my system over to linux.

 

[Xellos2099]

Take a look at this, this is a translation by a technical lawyer of the EULA in plain english. Save your anger till you finish reading this.

http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/...dows_licensing_disserves_the_user.html

 

[greylica]

I am happy. I am finnaly encouraged and switched today for linux. Post from Mandriva.

8)

 

[pcgeek11]

Originally posted by: stash

Look, if you want to be an *** about it, that's fine, but you're not helping anything with useless crap like that. Instead of being obtuse, you could clarify whether this means that I would have to buy a new retail copy of Vista after two motherboard changes or not. Since you haven't, I am left to assume that the answer wouldn't reflect very pleasantly upon your company, so you chose to give a useless and condescending answer instead.

I"m not trying to be an ass or obtuse or condescending or any of that, but thanks for the compliments! My answer is a valid answer.

I'm not qualified to 'interpret' EULAs and I would wager that there aren't many (if any) people here that are. The fact is, the EULA is THE authoritative source for the terms of the license. Asking people on the web who are not lawyers and therefore not qualified to speak to the workings of software contracts only leads to rumor and speculation, as has been seen in great quantities over the past couple days.

You are unlikely to hear anyone from Microsoft say anything different than I am. If you have a question about the EULA, it's on the website. If something is not clear to you, you should talk to someone who is an expert in this area, namely a lawyer.

But you are expected to interpret this EULA and agree or disagree to it when you buy the software. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. If the average joe is not qualified to interpret the EULA, how in the heck does Microsoft expect the average Joe to understand what they are buying into ?

It's a puzzlement I tell Ya!

Bunch of lawyer crapolla. God I hate Lawyers.

pcgeek11

 

[greylica]

Hey , Look at this, sooner or later they will cut jobs and think they are the gods.

Microsoft software, a new way to trash your money

It´s only for the money, people will loose their jobs sooner or later, Microsoft
do not want to support anyone, the only thing they want is to obtain money with
ZERO responsibility.

 

[stash]

But you are expected to interpret this EULA and agree or disagree to it when you buy the software. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. If the average joe is not qualified to interpret the EULA, how in the heck does Microsoft expect the average Joe to understand what they are buying into ?

The EULA is actually pretty clear. And if a consumer has a question, they should talk to a contracts lawyer.

If you're signing any sort of contract (house, car, prenup, whatever) and you don't understand all of it, would you not contact a lawyer? Why is a software EULA any different? If you have a question, talk to an expert.

 

[InlineFive]

Originally posted by: stash

But you are expected to interpret this EULA and agree or disagree to it when you buy the software. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. If the average joe is not qualified to interpret the EULA, how in the heck does Microsoft expect the average Joe to understand what they are buying into ?

The EULA is actually pretty clear. And if a consumer has a question, they should talk to a contracts lawyer.

If you're signing any sort of contract (house, car, prenup, whatever) and you don't understand all of it, would you not contact a lawyer? Why is a software EULA any different? If you have a question, talk to an expert.

Why would we want to have to pay more to contact a lawyer to help us understand the EULA? :disgust:

 

[stash]

For the same reason you pay a lawyer to help you with any other contract. If you don't understand the contract, and you don't contact an expert, and you then agree to the contract, you have no standing on which to dispute the contract.

Or, don't hire a lawyer and don't sign the contract (accept the EULA, purchase the product).

 

[1Cheap2Crazy]

Originally posted by: stash

But you are expected to interpret this EULA and agree or disagree to it when you buy the software. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. If the average joe is not qualified to interpret the EULA, how in the heck does Microsoft expect the average Joe to understand what they are buying into ?

The EULA is actually pretty clear. And if a consumer has a question, they should talk to a contracts lawyer.

If you're signing any sort of contract (house, car, prenup, whatever) and you don't understand all of it, would you not contact a lawyer? Why is a software EULA any different? If you have a question, talk to an expert.

So if I buy this product, read the EULA, have some questions so I call a lawyer and he explains it to me. If I don't like it, I can take this software back to the store and get my money back? Or is the EULA on the outside of the box?

 

[greylica]

Yeah, you can simply do not accept, this change is for Microsoft get a way to do not have to maintain anymore a call center to support the Retail product.

It´s clear what is behind this new EULA for US right now. Cutting jobs for cutting costs.

But in fact, this EULA represents the complete depreciation of the Retail product over it´s price. No more advantages to have Retail version, so, why buy it ?
The second problem is if they will still continue to sell this version with this inoportune limitation, punishing the people whose ever bought their softwares in a legal way.People who don´t know the limitation can continue aquiring Retail product thinking the rules are the same, inocently, and everything has changed. These people will not have any chance anymore to defend their money.
Two uses is insuficient, XP Retail uses sound very good , they can do another thing like 2003 Server EULA instead of this Damm thing, is that you do not have the rights to change the computer within 90 days of the activation, this is reasonably, people will not change the computers every 90 days and it still preserve the price tag for the retail version and the consumer directs over Retail version.
But the real fact is that they want the users to spend money to buy an expensive and loose it to trash, it´s a new money factory to get people loosing a thing that they never had. And the Retail Software, people bought this in the past for one reason, change the hardware and support.
The comsumer who ever bought the Retail version is the Enthusiast, Kill them and the market will suffer a big retraction, You will no more see the banner " push to limits ", and will see the outcry in general.
We can avoid this, by using a consumer tactic called boicotation, but sooner or later they will achieve it´s Nirvana. Not maintain any user support !
Retail versions out of the way represents a big cost cut, people loosing their jobs and Microsoft laughing to the ears saying. " -I did , I did !".

Linux on the other side, represents a turn on 180 degrees, you have everything but in case of needing help you can study or pay for it, the penetration of Linux will be greater than in the past because not everyone will outcry, Enthusiasts can have a switch of benchmarking for Linux to test or change hardware as many times they want, and when the game industry comes to Linux by the enthusiast, Windows will be a kind of past.
People do not want to stop changing hardware as they wish, and Microsoft turned out to be a barrier, even with their hardware partners, but people will pass through this with certainty sooner or later.
Today there is only two limitation for the linux, one is for hardware drivers, the blame is some of the hardware manufacturers itself, the second is a complete padronization problem in certain distros (LSB not followed ), what can be for software producers like an nightmare, every distro has it´s own approach, and even Linus Torvalds alerted all of the Linux world about this problem.

Healthy discussion.

The point of this EULA is cut Microsoft jobs and close users support.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: 1Cheap2Crazy

Originally posted by: stash

But you are expected to interpret this EULA and agree or disagree to it when you buy the software. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. If the average joe is not qualified to interpret the EULA, how in the heck does Microsoft expect the average Joe to understand what they are buying into ?

The EULA is actually pretty clear. And if a consumer has a question, they should talk to a contracts lawyer.

If you're signing any sort of contract (house, car, prenup, whatever) and you don't understand all of it, would you not contact a lawyer? Why is a software EULA any different? If you have a question, talk to an expert.

So if I buy this product, read the EULA, have some questions so I call a lawyer and he explains it to me. If I don't like it, I can take this software back to the store and get my money back? Or is the EULA on the outside of the box?

The way it works:
outside of box says must accept (enclosed) eula to run software. If you reject the eula, return for a refuned.
The eula then lays out the agreement between the owner of the software the the person licensing (not buying) it.

Here is the thing guys...
MS would love to have a EULA that says: run software, enjoy. don't make copies. thanks!

But everyone here lives in a world of litigation and lawyers so it takes 3 pages to say the same thing. As with *anything* like this get a lawyer if you need. there are laws in place that will cover you if someone tries to sneak something truly evil into a contract/eula or other legal doc. (fineprint of eula saying you must will us your house when you die or some crap).

Stop playing devils advocate with this rubbish. :roll:

 

[greylica]

Really you have one only reason, no lawier will solve the problem, Microsoft will only listen to a big boicot on Vista Retail AND OEM Version too.
It is a public outcry, well, let´s live ourlives again, for me, Vista is an ended conversation, Microsoft will go to hell with this EULA with the users and to heaven with their investors. Only for a short period. They change when they feel it´s clients gone.
When Linux push them to a wall, they do better suport, more security and listened to the people, sounds like they have more money again to do the same errors of the past.
Nothing last forever. In 2012 we will see Linux in 50% of the machines in the world. It´s not a dream, it´s the miracle of new EULA and the punishment for use Microsoft products. 2007 is coming soon. Wait and see.
:Q

 

[Xellos2099]

I think the EULA is a lot more than just 3 pages. You know, this remind me of the time when microsft had a super tough stand on privacy and refuse updates to peoepl who use vlk copy of xp. However, when that worm hit, microsoft had to release the cure to that since they fear public outcry on the exploit. Here we are face with similiar situration, Microsoft believe they can do whatever they please with eula because they believe mac and linux are no longer a threat, howqever they are wrong.

If there is another worm break, which i am sure many hacker are working on right now just to piss of microsoft eula license. Combine with people switching to linux and mac and various open source os, and combine with pirate's defeating the transfer limit and various restriction when vista is released, which greatly increase teh attractiveness of the pirate copy over the retail copy even if peopel are willing to buy the retail but hate the transfer limit. Microsoft will have no choice but to loosen up their PITA and unlawful EULA which complete destory the term fairuse agreement. Or we can hope there is enough public outcry and backlash and lawsuit follow which will rule the Vista's EULA is unlawful, alas unenforceable.

 

[Smilin]

I believe you wandered far from reality.

What percentage of users do you really think negatively affects?

99% or more of the users out there are getting the most advanced desktop OS that's ever been made and haven't seen a price increase since Windows 9x. The other 1% are stomping back and forth waiting on the pirated version anyway.

You get the roll. :roll:

 

[Xellos2099]

It is Microsoft who don't understand what they get into. Their lust for control and power will be their undoing.

 

[drag]

Here is the thing guys...
MS would love to have a EULA that says: run software, enjoy. don't make copies. thanks!

But that's not what the EULA says or what it does. There are a lot more restrictions in it then just not being able to make copies.

 

[greylica]

Quote from Smilin, OMG...
__________________________________________________________________________

believe you wandered far from reality.

What percentage of users do you really think negatively affects?

99% or more of the users out there are getting the most advanced desktop OS that's ever been made and haven't seen a price increase since Windows 9x. The other 1% are stomping back and forth waiting on the pirated version anyway.

You get the roll.

-------------------------
"teh only game yuo can palay on Lunix is 'catch teh monkey bannar ad.'" - JeffK

Obsidian

X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H*

Copy the above line into a text doc by itself to test your antivirus.
_________________________________________________________________________


Most advanced desktop OS...
1% of the users waiting , hmmmm

Advice for you:
Continue smiling on your pink world with buterflies all around and the yelow sun in the sky smiling for you like your avatar.

Xellos2099: Good, they change because they think they are in a better position again... Like I said before.

The healthy discussion continues...

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Smilin
I believe you wandered far from reality.

What percentage of users do you really think negatively affects?

99% or more of the users out there are getting the most advanced desktop OS that's ever been made and haven't seen a price increase since Windows 9x. The other 1% are stomping back and forth waiting on the pirated version anyway.

You get the roll. :roll:

please preface a statement like that with an "IMHO"

as I have tried vista RC2, and I do NOT find it to be the "most advanced desktop OS that's ever been made"

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: greylica
Quote from Smilin, OMG...
__________________________________________________________________________

believe you wandered far from reality.

What percentage of users do you really think negatively affects?

99% or more of the users out there are getting the most advanced desktop OS that's ever been made and haven't seen a price increase since Windows 9x. The other 1% are stomping back and forth waiting on the pirated version anyway.

You get the roll.

-------------------------
"teh only game yuo can palay on Lunix is 'catch teh monkey bannar ad.'" - JeffK

Obsidian

X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H*

Copy the above line into a text doc by itself to test your antivirus.
_________________________________________________________________________


Most advanced desktop OS...
1% of the users waiting , hmmmm

Advice for you:
Continue smiling on your pink world with buterflies all around and the yelow sun in the sky smiling for you like your avatar.

Xellos2099: Good, they change because they think they are in a better position again... Like I said before.

The healthy discussion continues...

Yeah, that was a healthy and mature response of yours. I don't really see a lot of facts in your attacks on me either. Here, eat some crow:

"Approximately 90 percent of Windows OS sales come from OEMs who are distributing the OS with new computers" - from: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060301-6295.html (among other sources)

Of the remaining 10% what do you think the percentage of OEM versus boxed retail is? Is it 80 % oem? Oh nos. That means I'm wrong and it's 98% !!! I guess you got me. Here's another roll. :roll:

So since you are new to this forum and up to a whopping 14 posts now, let me ask you.. Are you just here to be an ass or are you here to help people troubleshoot? If you're just here to be an ass why don't you just wander over to P&N or better yet get lost altogether. Go ahead and consider yourself cut off from any help I may provide.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
It is Microsoft who don't understand what they get into. Their lust for control and power will be their undoing.

OMFG dude. Look at yourself. GET A GRIP! MS is composed of a bunch of people just like everyone else. They come to work each day, do the best job they can then go home to their families. You act like it's a bunch of evil emperors and darth vaders sitting around going mwahaha!


That's it. I'm checking out of this thread. Go wallow in your bitter hatred little man.