New Mac Pro appears to kick ass

[RollWave]

Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Well Apple definately has a few holes in their desktop lineup when it comes to consumer machines. I don't see anyone buying the Mac Pro unless they are developers, professionals or A/V hobbyists. But the iMac is only an entry-level consumer machine, and the mini is little more than a paperweight until Apple replaces it with a real HTPC.

So what does Apple have instore for the mid-level computer user? Will they ignore this market, since gamers won't bother buying a Mac in the first place? I think they can succeed with a $1000-$1500 computer featuring Core 2 Duo and NO monitor--instead giving you a DVI port and an HDMI port to hook it up to a monitor or HDTV of your choice. Maybe if they get some game developers to port over to OS X (perhaps Intel-only binaries) that would help too.

I'm dying for them to get a HTPC Mini going. That would be a perfect machine for media....

As far as the hole in their lineup, I hope they decide to make a more affordable dual core mac available within a couple months.

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Well Apple definately has a few holes in their desktop lineup when it comes to consumer machines. I don't see anyone buying the Mac Pro unless they are developers, professionals or A/V hobbyists. But the iMac is only an entry-level consumer machine, and the mini is little more than a paperweight until Apple replaces it with a real HTPC.

So what does Apple have instore for the mid-level computer user? Will they ignore this market, since gamers won't bother buying a Mac in the first place? I think they can succeed with a $1000-$1500 computer featuring Core 2 Duo and NO monitor--instead giving you a DVI port and an HDMI port to hook it up to a monitor or HDTV of your choice. Maybe if they get some game developers to port over to OS X (perhaps Intel-only binaries) that would help too.

Yeah, they definately have a hole in their product line. Right now, their processor range goes from a Core Solo, to a Core Duo, skips right over Core Duo 2, and goes straight to two dual core Xeons. Hell, you can't even get a single processor Xeon machine if you wanted one. DailyTech was speculating that they have a Core Duo 2 machine in the works, but it wasn't ready in time for the WWDC. We'll see, I guess

 

[Falloutboy]

my guess is apple is hitting there high profit markets first.

there stregth has always been laptops, and midlevel to high hind Graphics/Video Workstations so they are getting those macfhines out first.

my guess is we'll see a upgraded imac with core duo 2 and maybe a midrange desktop with a single duo 2

i'm kinda anoyed that the cider isn't really a port of cedega but a service for developers I was hoping for it to be like linux.

 

[Kaido]

Did Apple have a mid-range machine before? I recall seeing their G5 line start at $2,000, which isn't what I would call mid-range. I agree; a mid-range machine would be great. I'm not a big iMac fan because I like to use my own monitor and it's hard for most people to swallow the $2.5k starting fee for a tower. The Mini is great if you upgrade it, except that the video card stinks. Maybe the mid-range Mac Pro could be half the size, too

 

[manly]

Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Well Apple definately has a few holes in their desktop lineup when it comes to consumer machines. I don't see anyone buying the Mac Pro unless they are developers, professionals or A/V hobbyists. But the iMac is only an entry-level consumer machine, and the mini is little more than a paperweight until Apple replaces it with a real HTPC.

So what does Apple have instore for the mid-level computer user? Will they ignore this market, since gamers won't bother buying a Mac in the first place? I think they can succeed with a $1000-$1500 computer featuring Core 2 Duo and NO monitor--instead giving you a DVI port and an HDMI port to hook it up to a monitor or HDTV of your choice. Maybe if they get some game developers to port over to OS X (perhaps Intel-only binaries) that would help too.

Because almost every consumer is a gamer w/ an HDTV and they'd rather hook a computer than a gaming console to their TV?

Apple makes general purpose consumer systems with an emphasis on what they term the "digital lifestyle" (aka iLife). Your analysis of what they currently have is completely incorrect (iMac is not entry level, Mac mini is); and you'd rather box them into niche markets (Mac gaming, HTPC) with a questionable profit incentive.

 

[Linux23]

Time to sell the Mac mini.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob

Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Well Apple definately has a few holes in their desktop lineup when it comes to consumer machines. I don't see anyone buying the Mac Pro unless they are developers, professionals or A/V hobbyists. But the iMac is only an entry-level consumer machine, and the mini is little more than a paperweight until Apple replaces it with a real HTPC.

So what does Apple have instore for the mid-level computer user? Will they ignore this market, since gamers won't bother buying a Mac in the first place? I think they can succeed with a $1000-$1500 computer featuring Core 2 Duo and NO monitor--instead giving you a DVI port and an HDMI port to hook it up to a monitor or HDTV of your choice. Maybe if they get some game developers to port over to OS X (perhaps Intel-only binaries) that would help too.

Yeah, they definately have a hole in their product line. Right now, their processor range goes from a Core Solo, to a Core Duo, skips right over Core Duo 2, and goes straight to two dual core Xeons. Hell, you can't even get a single processor Xeon machine if you wanted one. DailyTech was speculating that they have a Core Duo 2 machine in the works, but it wasn't ready in time for the WWDC. We'll see, I guess

I'm thinking they will come out with a product called the "Mac", I mean look at it. There's the Macbook PRO, and the consumer version, the Macbook. So wouldn't it be obvious that they come out with a product called the Mac w/o the Pro part for the consumer.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: ChAoTiCpInOy

I'm thinking they will come out with a product called the "Mac", I mean look at it. There's the Macbook PRO, and the consumer version, the Macbook. So wouldn't it be obvious that they come out with a product called the Mac w/o the Pro part for the consumer.

the macintosh

 

[TheStu]

Ok, so here is the skinny on the pricing breakdown...

I configured two similiar systems (as close as I could get them) from Apple and Dell

They both have dual 3.0 GHz Xeons
4GB of RAM (The Dell doesn't allow for any more than this)
4 -500GB HDDs
Quadro 4500
2 -20" Displays (The Dell doesn't allow for any more than 1 24", no options for the 30" that I could see)
The Apple has 2 Super Drives, the Dell has one, and a DVD-ROM Drive

The Dell = $9,217
The Apple = $8,947

To keep things as fair as possible, I opted to not invoke my student discount on the situation, but that would likely widen the gap by about $300-400, The fact that the Apple can take 2 30"s and up to 16GB of RAM is a nice little advantage should someone really, really need that kind of oomph... of course it could also theortically run 8 23" displays and that is just way, way too much screen real estate i think.

 

[ballmode]

i like those cases

 

[TheStu]

OK, after student discount the price drops to $8,142... more than $1000 less than Dell's offering... which was a Precision 690. I mention this so someone els can come along and find another Dell system to configure comparably in case i missed anything

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: TheStu
OK, after student discount the price drops to $8,142... more than $1000 less than Dell's offering... which was a Precision 690. I mention this so someone els can come along and find another Dell system to configure comparably in case i missed anything

dell probably offers student discounts as well. most major MFRs do

 

[spike spiegal]

I mention this so someone els can come along and find another Dell system to configure comparably in case i missed anything

Just because Apple users are forced to buy systems from a single vendor doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

Point being, who here gives a royal frak what Dell has/doesn't have? It's like, anytime there's a new Mac, Apple users insist on whipping up a comparison with Dell.

A few months from a now a machine built from a SuperMicro board and having the same specs and procesor as the Apple/Dell will be drastically cheaper. You will of course be able to run *any* OS you want on the generic machine *EXCEPT* OSX.

Lets uh, 'configure' that little fact, eh?

Oh yeah....when you have some Apps like Photoshop able to use 16gig of RAM, let alone more than two, please let us know

 

[TheStu]

Well, since someone already mentioned that they went to newegg to configure a comparable system that was a few hundred cheaper than the Apple, i thought I would go to Dell, since they are one of the largest computer manufacturers on the planet...

IBM didnt appear to have and workstations that used Xeons (this was after a fairly short look... and i'm sure that they do, but their website leaves a little to be desired), and the HP selection was set in stone.

Anyone that buys any OEM are more or less forced to buy systems from one vendor... Now, if you replace Apple with OSX then you get the point you were trying to make which is that anyone that wants to use OSX will have to buy an Apple, or get it illegally running on their non-supported hardware.

And i didn't say that anyone needed 16GB of RAM, or 2 30" displays... but the fact that they have the option is nice don't you think? And who knows, but maybe some really big movie houses might need 16GB of RAM to encode the digital footage from the set of something like King Kong, or LoTR...

Also, find me a Dual Xeon board that has 4 PCI-E 16x slots. And no, I don't think those are necessary either, but they are nice to have on the off chance one did need to run 8 monitors

 

[BillyBatson]

that is pricey for what you get except for the cpu's. do you even get a choice on the cpu? what if i do not want a xeon i want core 2 duos, or anything else. i think they add a lot for the case rofl

 

[TheStu]

You get a choice on speed, but no, you don't get to choose between the Core 2 Duo or the Xeon. The reason being (and this was covered earlier as well) is that the Xeon is better suited for a dual CPU environment... and by that I mean that I am pretty sure that running the C2D in a dual CPU setup would be difficult...

Furthermore, it is a workstation, and therefore is for workstation tasks, something the Xeon is better for.

Look at te rest of the Apple line-up and see if you can choose between different CPUs with different sockets on the machines... or for that matter, for almost any of the OEMs... or for peopel like ole Spike Spiegel... you tell me if you can drop a pair of Core 2 Duos into a mobo designed for Xeons. Or if, you were building a workstation, if you would want Xeons or C2Ds.

I know that everyone is over the moon about the C2Ds, and I am as well. I can't wait to build a Conroe system... but the fact of the matter is, you get the chip that suits the task. Why do you think that intel went back and made the Pentium M? Cuz you don't want a Pentium 4 in your laptop. It isn't all that pricey really as someone else pointed out

 

[spamsk8r]

Oh man I want one to set up as a recording studio (and as a software development box) *drool*

 

[spamsk8r]

Originally posted by: TheStu
You get a choice on speed, but no, you don't get to choose between the Core 2 Duo or the Xeon. The reason being (and this was covered earlier as well) is that the Xeon is better suited for a dual CPU environment... and by that I mean that I am pretty sure that running the C2D in a dual CPU setup would be difficult...

Furthermore, it is a workstation, and therefore is for workstation tasks, something the Xeon is better for.

Look at te rest of the Apple line-up and see if you can choose between different CPUs with different sockets on the machines... or for that matter, for almost any of the OEMs... or for peopel like ole Spike Spiegel... you tell me if you can drop a pair of Core 2 Duos into a mobo designed for Xeons. Or if, you were building a workstation, if you would want Xeons or C2Ds.

I know that everyone is over the moon about the C2Ds, and I am as well. I can't wait to build a Conroe system... but the fact of the matter is, you get the chip that suits the task. Why do you think that intel went back and made the Pentium M? Cuz you don't want a Pentium 4 in your laptop. It isn't all that pricey really as someone else pointed out

Core 2 Duo is not MP capable at all, as far as I'm aware (and according to Ars Technica's report on it)

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: spamsk8r
Oh man I want one to set up as a recording studio *drool*

good luck with sound playback on the amazing built-in sound and speakers apple has

 

[spamsk8r]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: spamsk8r
Oh man I want one to set up as a recording studio *drool*

good luck with sound playback on the amazing built-in sound and speakers apple has

Yeah, except for the fact that it has Optical in and out for high quality digital audio. Good try.

 

[kalster]

its just a matter of time before dell comes up with a cheaper machine/work station with similar specs , just buy that and load 64bit linux distro and you have equally good
workstation, performance wise. Sure it may not look as good but its a workstation, you are buying for performance not looks, the extra money that you would pay for the mac can
be used to configure the dell with a better video card.

 

[spamsk8r]

Originally posted by: kalster
its just a matter of time before dell comes up with a cheaper machine/work station with similar specs , just buy that and load 64bit linux distro and you have equally good
workstation, performance wise. Sure it may not look as good but its a workstation, you are buying for performance no looks, the extra money that you would pay for the mac can
be used to configure the dell with a better video card.

Except for the fact that a Dell will never have OS X, nor would the hardware and software be as tightly integrated or as high quality as the Mac. I'm not a fanboy either, I run Windows, Linux, and OS X (and sometimes BeOS) and I just find OS X to be a much better platform for getting things done without fighting the OS. Plus many of the productivity apps (Photoshop, Garage Band, hundreds of others) are not available for Linux, and many aren't available for Windows either.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: spamsk8r
Oh man I want one to set up as a recording studio *drool*

good luck with sound playback on the amazing built-in sound and speakers apple has

No studio uses the built-in/onboard sound on compuers anyway, numbnuts.

 

[SampSon]

I missed the whole Xeon processor part. I've always found Xeon processors to be nearly pointless unless utilized in servers.

 

[kalster]

Originally posted by: spamsk8r

Originally posted by: kalster
its just a matter of time before dell comes up with a cheaper machine/work station with similar specs , just buy that and load 64bit linux distro and you have equally good
workstation, performance wise. Sure it may not look as good but its a workstation, you are buying for performance no looks, the extra money that you would pay for the mac can
be used to configure the dell with a better video card.

Except for the fact that a Dell will never have OS X, nor would the hardware and software be as tightly integrated or as high quality as the Mac. I'm not a fanboy either, I run Windows, Linux, and OS X (and sometimes BeOS) and I just find OS X to be a much better platform for getting things done without fighting the OS. Plus many of the productivity apps (Photoshop, Garage Band, hundreds of others) are not available for Linux, and many aren't available for Windows either.

if you are using apps which are available only for OS X you dont have a choice. but besides that there is no compelling reason to buy an OS X based system. I am assuming that they are targetting this as a workstation. For end users , ease of use of OS and things like that are important and I guess a selling point, that is not the case for workstations targetted at businesses.