New Nikon toys

[kyzen]

Fun night for you Nikon users... if you're in the market for an upgrade

D300s
D3000
70-200mm f/2.8 VR II
18-200mm VR II

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I'm having a hard time seeing what's different between the D300 and the D300s.

 

[ZOXXO]

Scroll down for key differences.

 

[Sid59]

Drool! I was expecting the D300s and D3000 but i wasn't expecting a 2nd gen 18-200. According to Thom Hogan, the D3000 is the same 10MP sensor from D60, focusing from D5000 and no live view or video.

Apparently the only new additions to the D300s is "It offers full 720p HD video recording, a faster 7 fps continuous shooting and Dual CF and SD card slots. It also sees an addition of a new Quiet drive mode and a dedicated Live View and Info button."

 

[arrfep]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
I'm having a hard time seeing what's different between the D300 and the D300s.

HD Video and Dual card slots. IMO the dual card slots is a biggie. You gotta pay a lot of money to get that on a Canon. Plenty of event photographers go to the 1-series for that feature. If you can get that, video, 51 pt autofocus and 7 fps in a "prosumer" cam, damn.

Canon's going to need to step it up. I know that gets said time and time again, but they've gotta quit the feature crippling/omitting. D300s/D700 is a very tempting combo.

 

[TheDrake]

Only differences I see are it can do movies and it has the dual CF/SD memory card slots.

 

[pennylane]

The new 70-200mm f/2.8 looks a lot like the old 70-200mm f/2.8 except fatter. I guess that makes sense since the primary IQ difference ought to be full frame corner sharpness (along with reduced flare).

I'm still waiting for a 300mm f/4 AF-S VR.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: arrfep

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
I'm having a hard time seeing what's different between the D300 and the D300s.

HD Video and Dual card slots. IMO the dual card slots is a biggie. You gotta pay a lot of money to get that on a Canon. Plenty of event photographers go to the 1-series for that feature. If you can get that, video, 51 pt autofocus and 7 fps in a "prosumer" cam, damn.

Canon's going to need to step it up. I know that gets said time and time again, but they've gotta quit the feature crippling/omitting. D300s/D700 is a very tempting combo.

Oh snap! I'm going to start saving up for this baby then. Video would be awesome! I love it! I was really afraid that Nikon would NOT step up with a video feature, but they did... hope that they didn't neuter it to hell and back like Canon did with the 5D MKII.

Weathersealed, crazy # of AF points, dual card capability, video and stills capability... it's hard for me to imagine a better globetrotting and a jack of all trades camera. Now they just need to have a version with about the same specs in full frame...

And I'm kind of glad that they chose NOT to cram more pixels into the sensor that would result only in a camera with all these additional features but WORSE noise and dynamic range characteristics.

 

[arrfep]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny

Originally posted by: arrfep

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
I'm having a hard time seeing what's different between the D300 and the D300s.

HD Video and Dual card slots. IMO the dual card slots is a biggie. You gotta pay a lot of money to get that on a Canon. Plenty of event photographers go to the 1-series for that feature. If you can get that, video, 51 pt autofocus and 7 fps in a "prosumer" cam, damn.

Canon's going to need to step it up. I know that gets said time and time again, but they've gotta quit the feature crippling/omitting. D300s/D700 is a very tempting combo.

Oh snap! I'm going to start saving up for this baby then. Video would be awesome! I love it! I was really afraid that Nikon would NOT step up with a video feature, but they did... hope that they didn't neuter it to hell and back like Canon did with the 5D MKII.

Weathersealed, crazy # of AF points, dual card capability, video and stills capability... it's hard for me to imagine a better globetrotting and a jack of all trades camera. Now they just need to have a version with about the same specs in full frame...

And I'm kind of glad that they chose NOT to cram more pixels into the sensor that would result only in a camera with all these additional features but WORSE noise and dynamic range characteristics.

My thoughts exactly. Ditto for wedding/event photog's and PJ's. If it were FF, I would literally sell all my Canon stuff tomorrow and get one. Besides being crop, it's basically everything the 5DmkII should have and could have been.

 

[Madwand1]

IMO, it's silly to buy a DSLR just for the video feature. Video is good for selling expensive DSLRs to people thinking that they're saving money on a real camcorder, when instead they're getting something that's more like a gimmick and a work in progress.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: Madwand1
IMO, it's silly to buy a DSLR just for the video feature. Video is good for selling expensive DSLRs to people thinking that they're saving money on a real camcorder, when instead they're getting something that's more like a gimmick and a work in progress.

I wouldn't be buying it just for the video feature, but for all the features of my D300 + a video feature. And we don't know yet if it's gimmicky. It could turn out very good - Nikon doesn't have nearly the camcorder products that Canon has, so it has a lot less to lose than Canon. If Canon were to really put a ton of good video features into the 5DMKII, it would be self cannibalizing itself. Nikon doesn't really have this problem. Nikon would just be taking sales AWAY from Canon in both the DSLR and camcorder markets if they released a DSLR with great video features.

What's exciting about video is that a photographer can definitely make some extra bucks if he could do decent video as well. I know that in real estate people are moving towards video tours instead of slideshows with still photos. If I could have a camera that could do both well enough for my clients, that's extra work and income for me. Same for a wedding photographer I'd imagine who works on a team. Or a stock photographer who can also make money selling stock video.

Video is a great thing, provided it is done well. I'm very excited about this camera, but I'm realistic enough to realize that I'll probably be let down.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: arrfep

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny

Originally posted by: arrfep

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
I'm having a hard time seeing what's different between the D300 and the D300s.

HD Video and Dual card slots. IMO the dual card slots is a biggie. You gotta pay a lot of money to get that on a Canon. Plenty of event photographers go to the 1-series for that feature. If you can get that, video, 51 pt autofocus and 7 fps in a "prosumer" cam, damn.

Canon's going to need to step it up. I know that gets said time and time again, but they've gotta quit the feature crippling/omitting. D300s/D700 is a very tempting combo.

Oh snap! I'm going to start saving up for this baby then. Video would be awesome! I love it! I was really afraid that Nikon would NOT step up with a video feature, but they did... hope that they didn't neuter it to hell and back like Canon did with the 5D MKII.

Weathersealed, crazy # of AF points, dual card capability, video and stills capability... it's hard for me to imagine a better globetrotting and a jack of all trades camera. Now they just need to have a version with about the same specs in full frame...

And I'm kind of glad that they chose NOT to cram more pixels into the sensor that would result only in a camera with all these additional features but WORSE noise and dynamic range characteristics.

My thoughts exactly. Ditto for wedding/event photog's and PJ's. If it were FF, I would literally sell all my Canon stuff tomorrow and get one. Besides being crop, it's basically everything the 5DmkII should have and could have been.

Pretty much. If it came out in full frame I would be doing my very best to save up for the upgrade right now, instead of what I'm actually doing which is just sitting on my ass and holding my money, waiting for something better to come along. Or sitting on my ass and contemplating just sticking with a cheaper APS-C body.

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: arrfep
IMO the dual card slots is a biggie. You gotta pay a lot of money to get that on a Canon. Plenty of event photographers go to the 1-series for that feature. If you can get that, video, 51 pt autofocus and 7 fps in a "prosumer" cam, damn.

It looks like a pro model to me. The "Prosumer" label would apply only because many non-pros can and do buy it, not because of specific limitations in the feature set.

http://www.nikonusa.com/Assets...s/PDF/DSLR_Compare.pdf

Canon just doesn't have anything in this category. The 5D II, while of sufficient resolution to compete with the current 1Ds III at a fraction of the cost, is a "prosumer" model designed to be somewhat pro-feature poor in other respects compared to the 1-series. Nikon just doesn't have anything like this yet, but the pro D700x model is expected before long.

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=448

So is the D300 a PRO camera or prosumer model? Nikon calls it a new PRO model and certainly when you add the MB-D10 grip the combo displaces the current Nikon Pro D2x in just about every way. That comparison makes it very fair to call the D300 a Pro model. On the other hand the D300 also obsoletes the D200 prosumer model in almost every way and it only costs a little more than the D200 it replaces.

...

We prefer to view the Nikon D300 as the biggest bargain around in a true PRO camera.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: Madwand1

Originally posted by: arrfep
IMO the dual card slots is a biggie. You gotta pay a lot of money to get that on a Canon. Plenty of event photographers go to the 1-series for that feature. If you can get that, video, 51 pt autofocus and 7 fps in a "prosumer" cam, damn.

It looks like a pro model to me. The "Prosumer" label would apply only because many non-pros can and do buy it, not because of specific limitations in the feature set.

http://www.nikonusa.com/Assets...s/PDF/DSLR_Compare.pdf

Canon just doesn't have anything in this category. The 5D II, while of sufficient resolution to compete with the current 1Ds III at a fraction of the cost, is a "prosumer" model designed to be somewhat pro-feature poor in other respects compared to the 1-series. Nikon just doesn't have anything like this yet, but the pro D700x model is expected before long.

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=448

So is the D300 a PRO camera or prosumer model? Nikon calls it a new PRO model and certainly when you add the MB-D10 grip the combo displaces the current Nikon Pro D2x in just about every way. That comparison makes it very fair to call the D300 a Pro model. On the other hand the D300 also obsoletes the D200 prosumer model in almost every way and it only costs a little more than the D200 it replaces.

...

We prefer to view the Nikon D300 as the biggest bargain around in a true PRO camera.

Yeah, Nikon has APS-C pro models and FF pro models. D300s would fall squarely into APS-C pro models. Not prosumer. HOWEVER, Nikon's APS-C professional cameras are incredibly competitively priced. You will probably be able to get this truly professional grade D300s for about the same price of the "prosumer" grade 5DMKII. Heh, or maybe even less.

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
You will probably be able to get this truly professional grade D300s for about the same price of the "prosumer" grade 5DMKII. Heh, or maybe even less.

The list price for the D300S is about the same as the D300 - $1800, a lot less than the 5D II.

Watch out for the Sony A850 though -- if it's real, it might undercut everyone's (high-res) FF pricing.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: Madwand1

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
You will probably be able to get this truly professional grade D300s for about the same price of the "prosumer" grade 5DMKII. Heh, or maybe even less.

The list price for the D300S is about the same as the D300 - $1800, a lot less than the 5D II.

Watch out for the Sony A850 though -- if it's real, it might undercut everyone's (high-res) FF pricing.

Holy crap. This is awesome.

 

[Deadtrees]

Looks damn good. Nikon cameras never fail to impress me with their mechanical specs.
One think I have my eyes on is whether they have fixed the digital imaging problems. It uses same EXPEED engine but improvements could have been made.
One thing that might stop them doing so is lab benchmarks. As majority of people think high ISO performance=IQ, I guess it's difficult Nikon to be less aggressive on that matter.
I really hope they decided to be less aggressive on sensor gain control boost, at least.

 

[teatime0315]

The only thing that disappoints me is the video, which ironically was what I waited for. Its still 720p and is limited to 5 minutes each round. That's way too similar to the D90 for the price they're asking. I was just hoping for a 1080p recording machine without the 5 minute limit.
Oh well, no rush. I guess I'll wait for the next one. In the mean time I'll pick up a new lens.

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: Madwand1

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
You will probably be able to get this truly professional grade D300s for about the same price of the "prosumer" grade 5DMKII. Heh, or maybe even less.

The list price for the D300S is about the same as the D300 - $1800, a lot less than the 5D II.

Watch out for the Sony A850 though -- if it's real, it might undercut everyone's (high-res) FF pricing.

Uhh,,,,but D300s isn't FF. In my case, I'd go for FF that lacks many features over APC-S with more features. It's just a different league, I think.

Having said that, I have my eyes on this upcoming cheap FF from Sony. At this point, I'm sure it'll be announced soon. What I wonder the most is the price. Sony is acutally selling A900 cheaper than its manufacturing cost and they've decided even come up with a cheap FF? I don't know about Sony but it's good for me. If this new FF is $2200 and D300s is $1800, I wouldn't think twice about D300s. Liking Sony A900 images so much, I might sell 5D mk2 and move along.

 

[randomlinh]

Um, this actually has me considering nikon. mainly, that whole dual card slot thing is a huge thing for me. unfortunately, $2000/2400 for the old/new 70-200 VR?!?!? ouch.

that and is there a 135/2 equiv for nikon?

I also didn't know 14bit would drop fps down to 2.5 =(

 

[andylawcc]

so on the low end, the D3000 is not much different/better than the D60, which in turn, is not much different/better (i know i know, a real stretch here) than the D40....

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
If this new FF is $2200 and D300s is $1800, I wouldn't think twice about D300s. Liking Sony A900 images so much, I might sell 5D mk2 and move along.

The rumors implied around the $2K mark, which opens up big questions as to the differentiation from and impact on the A900. The D700x would also have a market impact on the A900, as did the 5D II. But even if the A900 was killed off, that'd just mean that we'd have one more option for a cheap (used) high-res FF.

Too many cards waiting to be played to make any calls at this point -- I'd wait to see them all for the season/year, and the resultant effects on pricing on existing models and the used market, small though it may be at present for this niche.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: teatime0315
The only thing that disappoints me is the video, which ironically was what I waited for. Its still 720p and is limited to 5 minutes each round. That's way too similar to the D90 for the price they're asking. I was just hoping for a 1080p recording machine without the 5 minute limit.
Oh well, no rush. I guess I'll wait for the next one. In the mean time I'll pick up a new lens.

I was hoping for 1080p as well, but as for the 5min time limit...

I don't have much experience shooting video really, but the few times I have shot it I've noticed that 5 minutes of continuous shooting is actually a long long time. Most finished movies are made from a lot of little 10 second clips anyway. So is 5min really such a limitation?

 

[soydios]

1080p should have been somewhat plausible on the D300s because of the faster sensor readout than the D90, but perhaps the sensor readout isn't the bottleneck on bandwidth in the video processing chain? The D300 sensor's ADCs are faster (8fps) and higher resolution (14bit) than the D90's.

The 5-minute time limit is more of a sensor heat issue than anything else, but on my D90 there's absolutely nothing that prevents me from starting a new movie a split-second after hitting the 5-minute limit on the previous one. There are some things that I want to record for more than five minutes, such as stage scenes, but few things more than twenty, so as long as I can live with the reduced resolution then I'm OK with that. A word of warning, though: movie mode absolutely sucks the battery; a battery grip is advised for extended use.

A further tip for movie-making: turn off your lens's VR during movie recording, because the sound of the VR system working is picked up quite clearly and distractingly by the in-camera microphone. Thank goodness they included an external microphone input so serious video people don't have to deal so much with audio synchronization in post-production.

The D300s is exactly that: a modest update to the D300 and perfectly by the "-s" suffix. The dual card slots are cool, and I guess that the second being of the SD-card format is something that we'll have to live with as the D300 body straight up isn't as big as a D3 and thus couldn't fit a second CF card slot. The bump to 7fps is nice, I guess, particularly since IIRC there's some way to do bracket shots at 8fps with an EN-EL3e.

/sigh about the updated 18-200mm DX VR with zoom lock. The zoom creep is the single most annoying thing about my 18-200mm, particularly since it's my walkabout lens and always ends up extending itself with the camera slung over my shoulder, and it's only gotten looser as I've used the lens over the past two-some years. Oh well, such is product advancement, and I'm glad that I had my version-1 18-200mm VR.

My comments on the version-2 70-200mm VR, taken from my Nikon Lens Guide:
"DPReview.com reviewed this lens several years after its introduction, and found that it essentially behaves like a sort of extended-DX lens. It produces superb image quality on a DX-sized (1.5x crop, aka APS-C format) sensor, but disappointing corner performance on full-frame 35mm film and FX format digital sensors. This superb DX-format-only performance yet lack of the DX moniker among the alphabet soup title acronyms leads me to believe that Nikon may have been considering an APS-H format 1.3x-crop sensor. This still makes little sense to me, however, because there are still film SLRs in use today that would suffer from the corner performance issues highlighted by DPReview. In light of this poor corner performance, the lack of a quick update to Nano-Crystal-Coat and VR-II makes sense because a redesigned version with better corner performance is now necessary with the introduction of the FX-format D3."