NEW OCZ Vector

[blastingcap]

Give it up. I started a thread a while back trying in good faith to solicit real experiences from Vertex 4 owners. That dude jumps all over the thread and insults me with stuff like "It's people like you that blah blah blah." I don't know what his problem is but you'd think OCZ killed his family. If that's not hate, I really don't want to see what hate is but it's like a personal vendetta of his to slam anyone who even looks at OCZ nicely.

I don't support OCZ. After I found out about the financial issues, I decided against getting the Vertex 4. But for someone who "really doesn't care if we stick our heads into the sand," he sure is open about just ripping on people.

ANYWAYS, we're here to discuss the merits of the Vector here and I'd really like to do that. I hope we can just drop this nonsense and just go back to speculating about what could be neat about the Vector because you know what, I don't care about OCZ as a company right now. I'm interested in new tech and want to discuss it. So I read today somewhere that this drive is all metal and no more cheap plastic. Call me crazy but that's pretty cool to me.

If you're talking about that jwilliam guy, just put him on ignore like I did. His post history speaks for itself.

As for the Vector, the HardOCP review was full of typos and errors but the bottom line is that it seems to be decent enough. Firmware can have hidden issues, though, and the warranty is worthless if the company files Chapter 7. If the price is cheap enough, I will consider it for ZFS cache drive duties or Steam drive duties or something else non-critical.

 

[TemjinGold]

I am really curious about this new "emphasis on stability" thing OCZ seems to be pushing on the Vector. The shiny metal casing I'm sure is meant to make the thing feel more solid (though with the rep from their Solid line, wonder if that's the way to go!) but surely they are doing more than just housing it in a metal box for that, right?

 

[josephjpeters]

Maximum PC: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/[primary-term]/ocz_vector_256gb_ssd_review

I swear that comment at the bottom looks familiar...

 

[jwilliams4200]

Maximum PC: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/[primary-term]/ocz_vector_256gb_ssd_review

I swear that comment at the bottom looks familiar...

Weird. I did not write that. It looks like someone pulled phrases out of my posts here and strung them together with some slight changes.

 

[TemjinGold]

Whoa... does the Neutron GTX really have 477 4k Write IOPS? Is that a typo?

 

[ViRGE]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6363/ocz-vector-review-256gb/

 

[dmoney1980]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6363/ocz-vector-review-256gb/

where's the torture test? Anand usually puts SSD's thru a series of torture tests to see how they bounce back.All I see is TRIM validation. Other than that, this looks like a great drive...as always this will all come down to price

 

[Mfusick]

Of course that is obvious to most people, but I did not respond to him because he has demonstrated many times in the past that logic and math are meaningless concepts to him. I don't bother responding to him much anymore.

It seems like the majority of your small amount of posts are about talking bad about OCZ SSD's and I just don't understand that.

Personal bias is one thing- but you seem so extremely motivated on trashing them at every turn.

I just simply do not understand why your so personally biased and motivated to push that bias on others.

Did an OCZ SSD burn down your home and murder your family ?

 

[TemjinGold]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6363/ocz-vector-review-256gb/

Dang... hot off the presses!

 

[Mfusick]

I did not write what you have quoted above. You apparently made it up, or perhaps you have a poor memory. And I did not insult you.

I think suggesting someone has a poor memory is insulting. I am not sure how you can claim you did not insult someone and suggest they have a poor memory in the same post.

What's funny is I seem to get an infraction every time I try to say something positive about OCZ here. I actually started a thread simply asking why everyone hates them so much.. and I was noob here and serious about it because I owned one and never had trouble.

I got an infraction for that. lol. It's like the mods are biased too (at least one of them)

It's been pretty trendy around here to hate on OCZ for the last 12 months... but I think opinion is changing. The company seems to be making an active effort to do more testing and less rushing to market, as evidenced in the Vector and Vertex4. Even the Vertex3 seems to be mostly ironed out and fixed these days.

When I look at the very high performance, the very low street prices, and the superior warranty of 5 years it's hard to hate on newer OCZ SSD's. I'm seeing all the same issues people complain about with other brands- and I generally feel that most SSD's are reliable. Chances are any brand and any model you buy is going to work as intended.

When people cry reliability I laugh sometimes because it's pretty obvious even the worst SSD's have reliability on par or better than ordinary spinner HDD's we lived with for years. They are all pretty good and getting better.

I think reliability issue on SSD is trendy to talk about and there is a lot of fear around it but I am assuming the majority of posters in this forum currently have an SSD in their system that's working great. I think the entire issue of SSD reliabilty is overblown - and certainly with OCZ it's way overblown as OCZ gets at least it's fair share of criticism if not more.

 

[Mfusick]

If you're talking about that jwilliam guy, just put him on ignore like I did. His post history speaks for itself.

I saw that. I'm not sure why he's so motivated. Usually someone who dislikes a brand just doesn't buy it. He seems ready to spend $ on a billboard he's so motivated.

I tend to discredit opinions people share that are based on extremes or a situation that is unlikely to occur for myself on a personal level.

 

[Mfusick]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6363/ocz-vector-review-256gb/

I just read the review. Looks strong. Some impressive benchmarks.

 

[Mfusick]

Give it up. I started a thread a while back trying in good faith to solicit real experiences from Vertex 4 owners. That dude jumps all over the thread and insults me with stuff like "It's people like you that blah blah blah." I don't know what his problem is but you'd think OCZ killed his family. If that's not hate, I really don't want to see what hate is but it's like a personal vendetta of his to slam anyone who even looks at OCZ nicely.

I don't support OCZ. After I found out about the financial issues, I decided against getting the Vertex 4. But for someone who "really doesn't care if we stick our heads into the sand," he sure is open about just ripping on people.

ANYWAYS, we're here to discuss the merits of the Vector here and I'd really like to do that. I hope we can just drop this nonsense and just go back to speculating about what could be neat about the Vector because you know what, I don't care about OCZ as a company right now. I'm interested in new tech and want to discuss it. So I read today somewhere that this drive is all metal and no more cheap plastic. Call me crazy but that's pretty cool to me.

I think the anandtech review spoke about the metal... I agree that sounds cool.

 

[josephjpeters]

I just read the review. Looks strong. Some impressive benchmarks.

Pretty nice review. 840 Pro wins in some areas, the Vector in others. I wonder what the performance hit will be (if any) when OCZ takes BF3 to 20nm like the 840 Pro (Vector uses 25nm MLC now).

 

[Mfusick]

Because your assuming something based on the past (mostly Sandforce based SSD's) and applying it to all OCZ products. Remember OCZ was one of the first to release Sandforce based SSD's.

Remember Intel/SATA Chipset issues with P67?

All companies will have mistakes. It just happened OCZ was hit hard for releasing drives with firmware that were not ready for the market. If anything needs attention at OCZ, its this. Release products once ready, not because of a timeline.

OCZ released firmware that fixed the Sandforce issues with most of there drives.

Now they've moved away from Sandforce and reliability appears to be much improved.

My point is, your dwelling on something that has been mostly corrected through firmware updates, and something OCZ is vastly improved on.

I'm not defending OCZ, I just think your spewing garbage about OCZ that's no longer warranted. Since you love Stats, OCZ's Agility 4/Vertex 4 failure rates are around 4% which is market average in modern SSD's, while providing top tier speeds. (Including all firmware versions). They are also based on the same Marvell controller as the "Rock stable Crucial M4" while being faster. With there aggressive pricing and a 5 yr warranty, I don't see why anyone wouldn't consider one.

All companies have firmware issues. In my opinion it's not really a big deal.

People like to beat up on OCZ for being first to market with a lot of SSD's and rushing them- but no one ever wants to discuss the Samsung or the Crucial firmware bugs.

Didn't crucial have a critical firmware update to correct constant BSOD errors at almost 5,000 hour mark that effected 100% of M4 SSD's ??? I applaud crucial for correcting the firmware and they did a good job- but for some reason that issue gets swept under the rug quickly. Those M4 supporters are always quick to point out the OCZ problems acting like it's a unique to OCZ thing.

All PC hardware will have issues. Even solid companies like Intel, Samsung, AMD, Crucial and many of the big companies people know and trust.

I think people made too much out of the sandforce controller thing. In reality it effected a very small number of drives in certain system configurations, and it was a long time ago. Water under the bridge if you ask me.

It has no effect on new products like the Vertex4 or Vector IMO.

 

[Mfusick]

Pretty nice review. 840 Pro wins in some areas, the Vector in others. I wonder what the performance hit will be (if any) when OCZ takes BF3 to 20nm like the 840 Pro (Vector uses 25nm MLC now).

Is 20nm any faster?

 

[TemjinGold]

Is 20nm any faster?

20nm is a handicap actually.

 

[josephjpeters]

20nm is a handicap actually.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what the performance hit is when they do go 20nm. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 20nm also allows for lower power consumption too. Maybe that explains why the 840 Pro beats the Vector in that metric?

 

[jwilliams4200]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 20nm also allows for lower power consumption too. Maybe that explains why the 840 Pro beats the Vector in that metric?

That is part of it. Toggle flash is also a bit lower power than ONFI flash. I also think the 840 Pro controller uses less power than the chips in the Vector.

 

[Rvenger]

I wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole. OCZ stock has fallen through the floor that past few months, and who knows how badly they rushed this thing to market before it was ready, as a hail mary to try to save the company.

You should have read the review...

From Anand:
"The design cycle for Vector is the longest OCZ has ever endured. It took OCZ 18 months to bring the Vector SSD to market, compared to less than 12 months for previous designs. "

 

[jwilliams4200]

You should have read the review...

From Anand:
"The design cycle for Vector is the longest OCZ has ever endured. It took OCZ 18 months to bring the Vector SSD to market, compared to less than 12 months for previous designs. "

Heh, funny. First, the review was not yet posted when I wrote that.

Second, based on past history of dishonesty, I do not believe anything OCZ representatives say. The proof will have to be in the pudding...errr, the SSD. In 6 months or so we may have an idea of whether OCZ turned over a new leaf. If the company is still here in 6 months, that is...

 

[Mfusick]

20nm is a handicap actually.

That's what I thought I read..

so...


That's why I asked..

 

[Hellhammer]

I think the anandtech review spoke about the metal... I agree that sounds cool.

The metal doesn't really affect reliability though...

Pretty nice review. 840 Pro wins in some areas, the Vector in others. I wonder what the performance hit will be (if any) when OCZ takes BF3 to 20nm like the 840 Pro (Vector uses 25nm MLC now).

Intel told me that only erase times are slightly longer at 20nm, everything else is the same (program/read latencies). Erase times shouldn't contribute much to performance because you're almost always writing to an empty cell and erasing happens in background (garbage collection).

 

[TemjinGold]

In any case, I'm glad to see a direct competitor to the 840 Pro as this will help drive prices down for both of them.

 

[josephjpeters]

Intel told me that only erase times are slightly longer at 20nm, everything else is the same (program/read latencies). Erase times shouldn't contribute much to performance because you're almost always writing to an empty cell and erasing happens in background (garbage collection).

Nice to know. What's the performance difference between Samsung's Toggle and IMFT's MLC?

I think it's significant (basing it off of the performance difference between the Vertex 3 and Vertex 3 MaxIOPS). Says something about the BF3 controller, doesn't it? I have a feeling we're not going to see a BF3 with Toggle anytime soon, the competition is heating up.

I'm interested to see how OCZ handles the transition to 20nm. They botched the 3x to 2x MLC transition and pissed a lot of people off because they didn't change part numbers.