New Pascal Titan X!

[Arachnotronic]

300-400mm2 10nm GPUs in 2018 ??? not a chance in hell.

10nm is in production at TSMC now and they'll be selling wafers to mobile customers in Q1'17.

I completely expect 10nm GPUs in 2018.

 

[Arachnotronic]

A week before Vega is out, the 1080ti will come out for 800$ (900$ FE) and will probably at least equal Vega 11. AMD are probably in their worst state ever in the high end market (if anyone wants to bring up the Voodoo days or whatever, then define ever as >2002). They still don't have anything at AIB 980ti level.

To stay on topic though, I wonder why the Titan X clocks are so low vs the other Pascal cards. It might turn out to be a great overclocker.

Titan X is obviously clocked to give enthusiasts/overclockers headroom. Nobody likes to feel that they can't squeeze out additional value via overclocking.

 

[HOOfan 1]

Why not call it the Titan X-2 Yuna Edition

 

[Arachnotronic]

This is what happens when you let one company get to 80% market share.

Nobody "let" NVIDIA get 80% market share; they earned it through a combination of strong products and good marketing/brand building over many years.

Record revenues and record profits fuel even more R&D and thus here we have a GP102 for consumer with G5X and a GP100 with HBM2 for HPC/workstation. AMD does not have the resources to compete. Plain and simple.

In the gaming market, it looks as though this is the case. AMD has been able to tread water in the gaming dGPU market through aggressive pricing, but it looks like the company is really focused on grabbing the (relatively low margin) OEM business that NVIDIA has shifted focus away from.

I think AMD will never again be able to bring back competition like the HD 5000 / HD 6000 /HD 7000 / R9 200 days. The gap which started with Maxwell is going to grow further and AMD are going to have a hard time getting back to historical market share levels.

Times change, markets change. NVIDIA went all in on dGPUs, while AMD wanted to be in dGPUs, servers, PC APUs, etc. This is completely a result of strategic management decisions made years and years ago.

Kudos to Nvidia on their GPU dominance.

Agreed :thumbsup: This is a textbook example of an extremely well run business.

 

[Keysplayr]

Why not call it the Titan X-2 Yuna Edition

Or the XTX-PE...

 

[crisium]

That name. What the hell?

Will the further cut down GP102 be called the Nvidia 980 Ti?

 

[Grooveriding]

That name. What the hell?

Will the further cut down GP102 be called the Nvidia 980 Ti?

My guess is 1080ti using a cut down version of the chip in this new Titan will release late September/early October. There are big game releases in October that will drive GPU purchases. It will give this new Titan the usual couple months of early access tax to the flagship GPU before they launch a cheaper card using the same chip.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the 1080ti turn out very similar to how the 980ti compared to the Titan X; 5-10% slower at most. The difference overcome with the availability of AIB cards for the ti compared to reference only on the Titan.

If this new card is $1200, I think we can expect the ti version to be $900. :biggrin:

 

[crisium]

3584 CUDA cores, eh? No way this is full GP102. Bet that fully enabled dies with 3840 CUDA cores (1.5x GP104, just like GM200 was 1.5x GM204) will arrive later with faster GDDR5X.

That is, if Volta Titan isn't out this time next year, which is totally a possibility.

Agree, they are holding 3840 core as an option, if needed. If Volta is late and/or Vega is a beast, then the fully enabled GP102 is an option to move Nvidia performance up. If the opposite happens then they have no need for it. And by not having a full GP102 to compare GV104 to, then GV104 (GTX 1180) looks relatively better compared to its previous generation.

Very good option select.

 

[railven]

Pillow talk with the fiancee. She said if I ever bought a $1.2K monitor, or $1.2K GPU, she'd strangle me with a pillow.

HAHA. Challenge accepted!

 

[n0x1ous]

Pillow talk with the fiancee. She said if I ever bought a $1.2K monitor, or $1.2K GPU, she'd strangle me with a pillow.

HAHA. Challenge accepted!

its probably $1199.99 so you should be good! :biggrin:

 

[raghu78]

Nobody "let" NVIDIA get 80% market share; they earned it through a combination of strong products and good marketing/brand building over many years.

AMD's CPU disaster Bulldozer weakened the company badly and affected even the GPU division's R&D. So yeah AMD's misfortunes due to Bulldozer did let Nvidia get to 80% market share. Anyway we have to see if AMD can ever turnaround their fortunes in both the CPU and GPU markets. But AMD need healthy presence in both markets to be a successful company in the long run.

10nm is in production at TSMC now and they'll be selling wafers to mobile customers in Q1'17.

I completely expect 10nm GPUs in 2018.

10nm is a mobile only node. There will be no High performance CPUs and GPUs built at TSMC 10nm. TSMC 10nm will be a shortlived node like TSMC 20nm. In fact customers like Xilinx have already confirmed they are skipping TSMC 10nm. TSMC 7nm is the next high performance node with even a high performance specific version for 4+ Ghz CPUs.

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1329217&page_number=2

This is the node which will go into production in H1 2018 and the first products using these would be Apple A12 and A12X for the 2018 iPhones. Then we will see the usual customers like Nvidia, Xilinx, MediaTek and even Qualcomm (which is rumoured to use TSMC 7nm) in 2019. Volta is a 16FF+ product which will be extremely well optimized just like Maxwell was on TSMC 28nm. I think we might see Volta HPC in late 2017 with Volta consumer in H1 2018. Then we will have an improved Volta shrink in 2019.

 

[crisium]

And now us historians can lament that the $350 GTX 570 is now the $1200 "Nvidia Titan X". Assuming core 3840 is the full chip.

What a time to be alive.

 

[sze5003]

Surprised they are releasing it so soon. While it's good for business, personally this turns me off from nvidia. Am I buying a GPU or cell phones now. With the way they move so quickly to new models, I would never know when to buy.

Does 35% equate to $400 more than a 1080? How long will it last? I guess now we can say the 1070 should be around $300 seeing how the 1080ti will be better and cost more.

Kind of upset because I want to go 1440p but I'm tired of waiting and my only option is nvidia because I won't be able to play all my games how I want at that res with a rx480.

Don't want to pay $400+ for a 1070 if a 1080ti is going to show up and drop the prices of the custom 1070's maybe. Likewise I'm tired of Intel graphics and would like to get back into doom and Witcher 3.

 

[railven]

its probably $1199.99 so you should be good! :biggrin:

I got like $700 in Amazon points from just routine every day expenses. Throw in my OT money, she has no say! Haha.

And now us historians can lament that the $350 GTX 570 is now the $1200 "Nvidia Titan X". Assuming core 3840 is the full chip.

What a time to be alive.

Not really. If this is GP102, it isn't the big die cut down which is what GTX 570 was.

Not that I'm in love with the price increases, but frankly said - we've been spoiled for many years.

 

[guskline]

Pillow talk with the fiancee. She said if I ever bought a $1.2K monitor, or $1.2K GPU, she'd strangle me with a pillow.

HAHA. Challenge accepted!

Buy her a $1200 Talbot's gift card and she'll look the other way! Trust me! She'll be so psyched thinking about how she will spend it she will "overlook" that you bought BOTH the 1.2K monitor AND the 1.2K GPU.

AND you won't have to sleep with one eye open!()

 

[crisium]

Not really. If this is GP102, it isn't the big die cut down which is what GTX 570 was.

That only makes it worthy of more lamenting then. Although GP100 is only bigger because of useless (for gaming) double precision. Same 3584 and 3840 (probably) single precision cores. So GP102 is their top Pascal chip for gaming either way, since a GP100 would only be faster for gaming because of the extra memory bandwidth of HBM2.

Although they have the die space for 5000+ CUDA cores if they make GP100 size only single precision, of course.

 

[imaheadcase]

~35% Faster than GTX 1080.

However he also said it won't translate to that in games.

 

[railven]

Buy her a $1200 Talbot's gift card and she'll look the other way! Trust me! She'll be so psyched thinking about how she will spend it she will "overlook" that you bought BOTH the 1.2K monitor AND the 1.2K GPU.

AND you won't have to sleep with one eye open!()

Haha. She isn't that kind of ritzy girl. I'd have to get her a freaking horse to get this overlooked haha.

 

[RussianSensation]

And now us historians can lament that the $350 GTX 570 is now the $1200 "Nvidia Titan X". Assuming core 3840 is the full chip.

What a time to be alive.

And on the low end we have a $249-299 GTX1060 GP106, a $129 GF106 GTS450 successor.

If we look back at any time in GPU history, the only true time when ATI even got close to NV in terms of consumer respect/preference was when their cards were completely on another level (9700/9800 vs. FX5000). At no other time in history did ATI/AMD even manage to get much above 50% market share.

Just look back at HD5850/70 generation. We now have the reversal of this with GTX1070/1080 but NV has 80% market share. NV customers waited 6-9 months to buy Fermi, but "AMD customers" in the market for a $400-700 card today will not wait and just buy 1070/1080. 7970Ghz handily beat 680 in June 2012 and NV fans never acknowledged it. Today a $300 280X is close to the $500-650 780, $400 290 trades blows with a $700 780Ti, $300-325 is close to the $550 980.

I can tell you right now that even if Vega 11 3-4 way Crossfire beats Titan X SLI overall, AMD will never outsell NV. The PC enthusiasts are extremely loyal to NV and AMD knows it.

The market may be better off with NV having $800-1200 high end cards that PC enthusiasts will buy anyway, while AMD has good products in the sub-$500 space.

If you look at the entire history of ATI/AMD, the types of consumers who buy their products don't really buy cards above $549. It's because I believe the consumer mentality for the 2 brands at the high end is different. Why should I spend $600-1200 on a card when by the time that GPU performance is needed for a true next gen game, I can get this performance for $300-450?

That's why AMD is better off releasing cards from $240-600, and that's it. NV having the high end makes its customers feel good. AMD delivering the best price/performance makes its customers feel good. Even when ATI/AMD flat out had superior products, it never truly mattered anyway. The worst part isn't Titan X or 1080Ti moving to $1200 and $800-900, but $129 450 moving to $250/300, $200-250 460-560Ti moving up to $600-700.

Part of the reason this is happening is because for the average PC gamer, the $200-250 480-1060 cards slice through games at 1080p 60Hz. That means for those who want a "premium" PC gaming experience, NV decided to just charge artificially premiums. Since customers keep paying, NV cannot be blamed. If tomorrow Starbucks Venti goes up from $2.70 Canadian to $5.40 Canadian and I keep buying, is it Starbucks to blame or me?

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2013/02/20130227_WSJ.jpg

NV is doing what any smart business would do -- keep charging more and more until they see consumer pull back. Instead they are seeing record sales.

With Volta gen, $499 GTX 2070 GV104 look like a bargain compared to a $1200 Titan X(P) (Titan X Pascal).

 

[Keysplayr]

Well, kepler titan and titan black were 2688 and 2880 respectively. 780ti was also 2880.
Perhaps pascal titanx will be 3584, titanx black and 1080ti might share 3840 number.

 

[Thinker_145]

A week before Vega is out, the 1080ti will come out for 800$ (900$ FE) and will probably at least equal Vega 11. AMD are probably in their worst state ever in the high end market (if anyone wants to bring up the Voodoo days or whatever, then define ever as >2002). They still don't have anything at AIB 980ti level.

To stay on topic though, I wonder why the Titan X clocks are so low vs the other Pascal cards. It might turn out to be a great overclocker.

I think the Nvidia 8800 generation was the worst for AMD(ATI). You can argue that they never truly recovered from the disaster that was the HD 2900XT. There was a time no serious gamer would give consideration to an AMD card "at any price point" and you were just supposed to buy whatever 8800 card you can afford.

The HD 3xxx series was still weak sauce so high end was still exclusively for Nvidia. From the release of the 8800GTX till the 4870 there was literally nothing offered by ATI in the high end that made sense for anyone to buy.

The current situation is certainly not that bad yet.

Sent from my HTC One M9

 

[n0x1ous]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-pascal-titan-x-revealed,32309.html

Offically not a Geforce card. See the pic on the Toms announcement. No geforce gtx logo

 

[crisium]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-pascal-titan-x-revealed,32309.html

Offically not a Geforce card. See the pic on the Toms announcement. No geforce gtx logo

Yeah, that's how they can get away with the same name. Because it's not technically the same. "GTX Titan X" vs "Nvidia Titan X". How nuanced.

 

[n0x1ous]

Yeah, that's how they can get away with the same name. Because it's not technically the same. "GTX Titan X" vs "Nvidia Titan X". How nuanced.

Yeah, Weird to see a plain side of the Nvidia reference card. Would have thought they would have put Titan logo lit up green or something then

 

[selni]

Yeah, that's how they can get away with the same name. Because it's not technically the same. "GTX Titan X" vs "Nvidia Titan X". How nuanced.

I really cannot understand how anyone though this naming was a good idea. They've struggled with titan names past the first (titan black?) but this is on another level.

What's next, the new volta based nvidia gtx 1080, now x% faster than the geforce gtx 1080?