New Pascal Titan X!

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IllogicalGlory

Senior member
Mar 8, 2013
934
346
136
I see that quite a few members are very vocal about prices being too high etc but keep forgetting that prices in general for everything has increased several folds over the decade.

If everything was constant.. the complaining about IHVs not sticking to this 00s old GPU pricig scheme would make sense. But that isnt the case. R&D costs have gone up tremendously (GPUs are getting more complex to design), manufacturing costs, inflation etc.

Maybe im wrong and instead be angry for being ripped off by my local supermarket because they have doubled the cost for the usual things i buy over the years..
The price hikes on GPUs are completely unwarranted. Maybe that's the wrong word - they are not motivated by the need to make a profit (as may be the case for your supermarket, as there is likely no shortage of competition there), they are motivated by a desire to make more and more and even more profit. This not a long term change due to inflation or other reasons, this is simply jacking up prices. 25-30% price increases on 70/80 series, and now a 980 Ti successor (this new Titan has no qualities of the previous Titans) for 85% more than we paid for it a year and a month ago?

What's doubled in price at your local supermarket, and relative to when?

Even if the competition is doing a worthless job at keeping NV in line (which only but the most stalwart would deny), there's nothing unreasonable about consumers being ticked off when they pull this. If consumers are unhappy, then the business is doing something wrong, as far as they should be concerned. I just wish NV would starts to feel it...
 
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Feb 19, 2009
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Well, both Vega dies almost have to have native 1/2 DP because the smaller one presumably would be used as part of Greenland HPC APU. Which is going to take up a ton of space... both probably only support HBM2 too.

AMD's FP64 is not dedicated units. It's just a beefier hardware scheduler that enables FP32 SP to operate together to process FP64 at 1/2 rate.
 

garagisti

Senior member
Aug 7, 2007
592
7
81
AMD's FP64 is not dedicated units. It's just a beefier hardware scheduler that enables FP32 SP to operate together to process FP64 at 1/2 rate.
IIRC, it would've been true about VLIW architecture, but the GCN has always been different, or is it only in past couple of revisions that it is the case.

thank you.
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
32
86
Like what?

Like the very structure and land you live on for example? I guess some people cannot relate because they are yet to reach that social level but everything in general has been going up in prices (living cost) not just due to inflation alone.

The world is not a static place and time waits for no one. Expecting products to follow some old pricing scheme is bound to be met with disappointment. If they priced it too high then the sales numbers will reflect this.

People also forget that the fiancial situation for different social classes differ each year. For those that can spend without any hesitation the particular pricing they are after doesnt matter. For those that do then well its unfortunate. But not everyone is the same here. If i was a student maybe i am not getting the best deal on a video card like i use to 5 years ago but if i have a good paying job it doesnt quite matter.
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
I really cannot understand how anyone though this naming was a good idea. They've struggled with titan names past the first (titan black?) but this is on another level.

What's next, the new volta based nvidia gtx 1080, now x% faster than the geforce gtx 1080?

It's all copying Apple. Macbook, Apple TV, Mac Mini, iMac etc. It's always a pain to figure out which gen your Apple product is before you can get information on it.
 

hawtdawg

Golden Member
Jun 4, 2005
1,223
7
81
Ultra-meh. Looks like I'm going to be waiting a while longer to replace my 980Ti's.
 
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HiroThreading

Member
Apr 25, 2016
173
29
91
It's all copying Apple. Macbook, Apple TV, Mac Mini, iMac etc. It's always a pain to figure out which gen your Apple product is before you can get information on it.

System Preferences -> About this Mac

There's nothing wrong with the naming scheme. I'd actually say it's better than some arbitrary numbering scheme like 1070/980 Ti/295 X2.

Actually, I wish Apple would drop the 6/6s/7 from its iPhone (not to mention the iPad line) naming scheme and just stick to the MYs like they do with the MacBooks.
 

tajoh111

Senior member
Mar 28, 2005
304
320
136
The price hikes on GPUs are completely unwarranted. Maybe that's the wrong word - they are not motivated by the need to make a profit (as may be the case for your supermarket, as there is likely no shortage of competition there), they are motivated by a desire to make more and more and even more profit. This not a long term change due to inflation or other reasons, this is simply jacking up prices. 25-30% price increases on 70/80 series, and now a 980 Ti successor (this new Titan has no qualities of the previous Titans) for 85% more than we paid for it a year and a month ago?

What's doubled in price at your local supermarket, and relative to when?

Even if the competition is doing a worthless job at keeping NV in line (which only but the most stalwart would deny), there's nothing unreasonable about consumers being ticked off when they pull this. If consumers are unhappy, then the business is doing something wrong, as far as they should be concerned. I just wish NV would starts to feel it...

If you didn't know, the price of wafers increase 60% vs 28nm. Finfet is expensive. Even Intel has felt the brunt of it.

Intel has kept prices mostly static except recently when they raised prices recently(for their 10 cores), but have been secretly cutting corners while their margins have stayed mostly the same.

Intel's 45nm 4 core used to be 296mm2, on 32nm2 it went to 216, then on 22nm it went to 177, and now with skylake, the die is only 122mm2.

Your paying 350 dollars for a 122mm2 die. That's worse then the prices increase for GPU's because you are getting far less product for the dollar.

With finfet, what either had to happen is chip had drop in size and/or prices had to increase. Since cost of production makes of the lionshare of the expense for Nvidia and Intel, and cost of production is mostly tied to wafer costs, then it should surprise no one that prices were going to increase.

AMD was basically forced to price their rx480 low because the 1070 is too much faster than it for AMD to charge anything more than 250 dollars. AMD is making very little money on their rx series. Not enough to pay for R and D anyways.

And you haven't done enough grocery shopping if you haven't noticed the doubling of price in certain products over a short period of time. E.g beef, sockeye salman.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
Like the very structure and land you live on for example? I guess some people cannot relate because they are yet to reach that social level but everything in general has been going up in prices (living cost) not just due to inflation alone.

The world is not a static place and time waits for no one. Expecting products to follow some old pricing scheme is bound to be met with disappointment. If they priced it too high then the sales numbers will reflect this.

People also forget that the fiancial situation for different social classes differ each year. For those that can spend without any hesitation the particular pricing they are after doesnt matter. For those that do then well its unfortunate. But not everyone is the same here. If i was a student maybe i am not getting the best deal on a video card like i use to 5 years ago but if i have a good paying job it doesnt quite matter.

Housing and technology do not follow the same economical path. I paid a whole lot more for my first computer then I would today. Beyond that, even your own example does not compute. Housing has not increased by "several fold" in the last 10 years. In fact, here in the US thanks to the housing bubble that collapsed in 2007, you'd be lucky if it's still worth what it was a decade ago, much less "several fold" more. There are some exceptions, and that's what they are, exceptions. But even those exceptions are not worth "several fold" more.

I get that you took this opportunity to answer my question by trying to put yourself up on a social and economic pedestal. Unfortuanly for you, I didn't pose this question to you because I'm ignorant or broke. I posed it because I knew you were wrong.

If you're still going to stand by that comment that prices for everything has increased several fold in the last 10 years, I say again... Like what? Your housing example did the exact opposite of proving your point.

Just to prove MY point further.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2006-honda-accord-ex-v-6-page-5

Price out an equivalent 2016 Accord and I assure you, you won't reach anywhere close to $90,000 which would have been a 3 fold increase over a 10 year period.
 
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littleg

Senior member
Jul 9, 2015
355
38
91
We do actually have a measure of how much prices in general increase each year, inflation. Runs about 3% usually. Any increase above that for the same or similar product is a real terms price rise.
 

mohit9206

Golden Member
Jul 2, 2013
1,381
511
136
I am of the opinion that $1200 price tag would have been acceptable if it came with a free leather jacket.
 

littleg

Senior member
Jul 9, 2015
355
38
91
I am of the opinion that $1200 price tag would have been acceptable if it came with a free $500
 

antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,764
274
126
The price hikes on GPUs are completely unwarranted. Maybe that's the wrong word - they are not motivated by the need to make a profit

Actually the need to make a profit is exactly what has resulted in the prices we are seeing today.

A lot of people seem to be of the mistaken opinion that the prices we are seeing right now are unprecented, but that is really not the case at all. Back in 2007 the 8800 Ultra launched for $830, which today would be equal to $965 (probably not far off from what a FE 1080 Ti will launch for), from 2001 (Geforce 3) until 2007 (GTX 8800) Nvidia flagship prices when adjusted for inflation was in the $600-700 range (same as the 1080 today).

So why does people think that we are seeing something new now? The answer is short memories and AMDs small die strategy. From 2008 until 2010/11 prices went down significantly, a trend that can be almost entirely prescribed to AMDs small die strategy which along with cheap AMD GPUs also forced Nvidia to lower their prices (most famously with the 280/260). In 2012 AMD abandoned the small die strategy with the 7000 series (or at least they abandoned the pricing side of the strategy), and as a result prices went back up to their historical average.

So why did AMD drop their small die strategy? Because they were hemorrhaging money and had to do something. With the latest quarterly report it looks like AMD might slowly be getting back on track (although that arguably has more to do with their custom SoC business than with GPUs).

So basically what we are seeing right now is arguably just a return to normality after having been blessed with low prices due to AMDs small die strategy for a couple of years. It sucks, but it's hardly unprecedented.
 
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redvapor

Junior Member
Apr 14, 2016
9
0
0
Beginning of next year we will have the full chip as Titan X Black for insanly cheap 1500$ and then the next 1180 will beat the Titan by 2% in Games and will be sold for only 999$. We are really blessed that Nvidia is so kind to us.
 

JDG1980

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2013
1,663
570
136
Well, both Vega dies almost have to have native 1/2 DP because the smaller one presumably would be used as part of Greenland HPC APU. Which is going to take up a ton of space... both probably only support HBM2 too.

Double-precision support doesn't "take up a ton of space" on AMD GPUs. Hawaii had probably the best perf/mm^2 of any GCN 28nm GPU and it was (and as of this writing still is) AMD's premiere double-precision chip.
 

faseman

Member
May 8, 2009
48
12
76
The nvidia price gouging continues. Prepare your wallets for $999+ 1080ti and some more on top for having the privilege of being a "founder".
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
The nvidia price gouging continues. Prepare your wallets for $999+ 1080ti and some more on top for having the privilege of being a "founder".

TitanXP (pascal) leaves little room from a pricing perspective for a TitanX higher core count successor. And why, if a TitanX now will cost 1200 dollars, would a 1080Ti (technically will all shaders enabled and 12GB of GDDR5X) cost less than the 1200? It is essentially the same card with more shaders enabled. I understand before because of compute differences, but I don't see those differences this time around. Not sure what they plan here.
 

Timmah!

Golden Member
Jul 24, 2010
1,463
726
136
TitanXP (pascal) leaves little room from a pricing perspective for a TitanX higher core count successor. And why, if a TitanX now will cost 1200 dollars, would a 1080Ti (technically will all shaders enabled and 12GB of GDDR5X) cost less than the 1200? It is essentially the same card with more shaders enabled. I understand before because of compute differences, but I don't see those differences this time around. Not sure what they plan here.

Personally, i think 1080Ti wont be a full chip, i would expect something more along 3200 shaders. 3072 perhaps. If there is a full chip available at some point, i would expect it to be again "Black" version to this Titan. OFC branded differently, since its literally black already now
 
May 13, 2009
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At this rate what is a "full chip" going to run? 1080 Is $700 and still sold out for the most part. How high are people willing to spend for these things? $2000, $3000, $5000?
 
Mar 10, 2006
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I don't think there will even be a 1080 Ti. Not enough room between 1080 and Titan X to slot in a worthwhile 1080 Ti.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,108
1,260
126
Of course there will be a ti. Nvidia is not going to design and produce a chip just for a $1200 gaming card that hardly anyone buys. This cycle has been repeated multiple times and it plays out the same way each time. First a Titan and then a GTX card.
 

antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,764
274
126
At this rate what is a "full chip" going to run? 1080 Is $700 and still sold out for the most part. How high are people willing to spend for these things? $2000, $3000, $5000?

We have only had two previous times where a chip was launched by Nvidia first as a prosumer card and then as a consumer card, and only in one of those cases was the prosumer card cutdown with the consumer card being the full version.

Titan to 780 Ti - $700
Titax X to 980 Ti - $650

The new Pascal Titan X is most reminiscent of the Titan to 780 Ti example (cutdown to full version), so assuming a 20% price hike (The new Titan X is $1200 vs. the $1000 of the original Titan) we get a price of $840.

My guess (which I don't appear to be alone with in this thread) is $800 MSRP and $900 Founders edition for a theoretical 1080 Ti.
 
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