New PC build for Windows 7 - advice needed

[HorizonTech]

Hello, I'm configuring new PC:

1. PC will be used for: office, internet, watching movies, videoediting,
photoediting, gaming (not too much), using virtual PC.
2. Budget: up to 2000 euros
3-4. Live in Europe, Purchasing probably from Amazon.com / Computer Universe.
5. Usually prefer Intel, NVidia, Asus, Samsung brands, but no fanboying.
6. Completely new build (maybe GPU temporary - AMD Radeon 360)
7. No overclocking
8. 2560x1440 monitor resolution
9. Planning to build within 1-2 months
10. Not planning purchasing any software - have Box Windows 7 pro

Now I've been considering i6700K+z170MB+GTX1070GPU+
16GB RAM (Samsung/Hynix)+500GB SSD Samsung 950 Pro + 3Tb HDD
+ 650-750W PSU + Fractal Design R5 Case (or another silent one with 4 USB ports).
For MB considering Asus z170 Pro Gaming as having maximum USB ports, but have doubts because of contradictory reviews.

The main question is - will it be possible to install Windows 7 on this PC
(I've read about USB 2.0 lack problem on Skylake). Is Win 7 commonly used
for Skylake builds or it's a no-go?

Also, I've read that installing Win 7 on 950 pro SSD requires special procedures such as driver installation and even installing Win 7 on another SSD and then cloning it to 950 pro. Is it true?

Because the build will be around 1500-2000 euros I can't afford purchasing all
components just to find out that I won't be able to install Win 7 on it.

In this case may be it's worth building Haswell z97 on i7-4790 but I was told that GTX1070 will not work at its highest speed on z97 because of PCI-e 2.0

Other questions are: will 500Gb SSD optimal for videoediting?

And is 16Gb RAM optimal for such build? Or maybe it's worth 32Gb?

Thanks for you help in advance!

 

[Ken g6]

A 1070 feels like overkill for your uses. Maybe get a cheap 970 while they're in stock but their prices are falling? Or wait for the 1060.

Definitely get 32GB RAM. Here's what I got, and I love it! Apparently dual-ranking needed to pack 16GB in one module makes it faster than most other RAM too.

[thread=2476459]I'm told[/thread] that if you have a Win7 or 8 key you can use it to install Win10 for free - if you do it in the next 2 months. Are you sure you still want Win7?

 

[frozentundra123456]

I wish I had never upgraded to Win 10. Of the three, I definitely prefer 7, but I waited to long to turn back after "upgrading" to win 10. Thought the bugs would be worked out in a few updates, but that was months ago, and still the same problems.

 

[VirtualLarry]

It's fairly easy to install Win7 clean on a Skylake rig, provided two things:

1) you have a SATA DVD-RW/ROM
2) You have a PS/2 keyboard / mouse, or a motherboard with UEFI "PS/2 Port 60/64 Emulation".

If you lack either of those, it's going to be nearly impossible to install directly on the Skylake rig. You might be able to install to a similar rig (Intel chipset, CPU), and then clone or move the SSD to the Skylake rig to complete the install.

 

[vailr]

It may be possible to install Windows 7 on a Skylake system with only a PS/2 mouse (and USB keyboard), if the LAN port is natively supported, such as a Realtek LAN port. Instead of requiring a driver installation, such as with an Intel or Atheros LAN port.
Booting into "F8/Safe Mode with Networking" may also be required in order to be able to install the USB port driver, found on the motherboard 's provided driver CD.
If no SATA optical is available, then slipstreaming the proper USB port driver onto a bootable Windows installation USB thumb drive would be the only remaining option.

 

[HorizonTech]

Thanks for the answers!

A 1070 feels like overkill for your uses. Maybe get a cheap 970 while they're in stock but their prices are falling?

Price drop for 970 is very small comparing performance increase.

Definitely get 32GB RAM. Here's what I got, and I love it! Apparently dual-ranking needed to pack 16GB in one module makes it faster than most other RAM too.

Thanks! I'll read on 2x16 modules.

if you have a Win7 or 8 key you can use it to install Win10 for free - if you do it in the next 2 months. Are you sure you still want Win7?

I'm sure I'm not using Win 10 in near future because: 1) Free upgrade will make my box Win 7 key into OEM OS license
2) Win 10 bugs and features - as Frosentundra123456's post illustrates,
3) Win 10 has severe privacy concerns - don't have enoug time to investigate how to block all its spy features. (Anyway I'll have to spend some time examining all 2015-2016 Win 7 updates to prevent any telemetry components install or Win 10 itself forced install in my Win 7 - recently had to help a friend of mine to prevent it on her PC).

It's fairly easy to install Win7 clean on a Skylake rig, provided two things.

Thanks a lot! I'll refer to your guidelines here, glad, the problems seem to be quite managable.
Have you installed Win 7 on Skylake?

It may be possible to install Windows 7 on a Skylake system with only a PS/2 mouse (and USB keyboard), if the LAN port is natively supported, such as a Realtek LAN port. Instead of requiring a driver installation, such as with an Intel or Atheros LAN port.
Booting into "F8/Safe Mode with Networking" may also be required in order to be able to install the USB port driver, found on the motherboard 's provided driver CD.
If no SATA optical is available, then slipstreaming the proper USB port driver onto a bootable Windows installation USB thumb drive would be the only remaining option.

Thanks a lot! I'll read on this. Have you installed Win 7 using this information?

 

[vailr]

Have you installed Win 7 using this information?

I can try and re-produce the exact Win7-SP1 installation procedure on a Skylake board with a Realtek LAN, PS/2 mouse & USB keyboard.
Is a SATA optical drive going to be included in your intended build?
Note: the choice of an M.2 SSD may increase the difficulty of a Win7 installation.
Not impossible, but substantially more difficult, compared with Windows 10.
A standard SATA SSD boot drive may be the better option for a Win7 + Skylake system build.

 

[HorizonTech]

I'll try and re-produce the exact Win7-SP1 installation procedure on a Skylake board with a Realtek LAN, PS/2 mouse & USB keyboard.
Is a SATA optical drive going to be included in your intended build?
Note: the choice of an M.2 SSD may increase the difficulty of a Win7 installation.
Not impossible, but substantially more difficult, compared with Windows 10.
A standard SATA SSD boot drive may be the better option for a Win7 system build.

I'll definitely will have SATA DVD RW drive inside PC as I have Win 7-64 retail DVD.
As for M.2 - I consider 950 Pro for videoediting mainly. Probably will use 850 Pro instead..

Actually I've just spoken to a guy tech(PC)-specialist nearby and he recommended to wait for KabyLake expected in Audust|September because, according to him, Skylake is not very stable and in KobyLake there will be some improvements for stability and bug fixes.
Personally, I think much will depend on luck with motherboard, customer reviews on Amazon for z170 MBs are not very encouraging..

Anyway, much thanks for your testing, if you do any!

 

[DigDog]

Ken, he's in europe, here the 970s cost the same as when they came out.

Horizon, you clearly should be buying the new AMD card, which is released at the end of the month.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4nfwmn/rx_480_european_price_without_vat_etc/
(i know, reddit link ..)

regarding overclocking, i would suggest that you *do* some overclocking; not a lot, but a little bit, yes.
because the 6600k or 6700k will be more desirable as second-hand cpus later on. and you should be able to easily overclock to a stable 4.5ghz with the most basic cooling solutions.

that's just my opinion. i would go 6600k and a MSI Z170-A PRO, or whatever is the cheapest z170 board you can get. and i would stick with 2x8 Gb of ram. i edit in PowerDirector and have used Vegas previously and i have yet to see all my ram being used.

otherwise you can get a 6500 and a H-board, but since you are not overclocking at all, that would impact your editing.

there are also cheaper alternatives to the samsung SSDs, some nearly half the price, for a performance difference you (or your system) would not be able to see.

 

[HorizonTech]

Ken, he's in europe, here the 970s cost the same as when they came out.
Horizon, you clearly should be buying the new AMD card, which is released at the end of the month.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/4nfwmn/rx_480_european_price_without_vat_etc/
(i know, reddit link ..)
regarding overclocking, i would suggest that you *do* some overclocking; not a lot, but a little bit, yes.
because the 6600k or 6700k will be more desirable as second-hand cpus later on. and you should be able to easily overclock to a stable 4.5ghz with the most basic cooling solutions.
that's just my opinion. i would go 6600k and a MSI Z170-A PRO, or whatever is the cheapest z170 board you can get. and i would stick with 2x8 Gb of ram. i edit in PowerDirector and have used Vegas previously and i have yet to see all my ram being used.
otherwise you can get a 6500 and a H-board, but since you are not overclocking at all, that would impact your editing.
there are also cheaper alternatives to the samsung SSDs, some nearly half the price, for a performance difference you (or your system) would not be able to see.

Thanks a lot for the advice, I'm considering various possibilities, will consider your suggestion. May be will give a try with 6600k, cheap MB and cheap SSD and then if ok with Win 7, resell it and buy i7.
It's a pity that configuring PC has become much more complicated today than a few years ago with so many new technologies (e.g. 4K, USB 3.1, NVMe, DDR4 etc) and M$ endless experiments with Windows 8/10.

 

[vailr]

OK: have just successfully installed Win7-SP1 via SATA optical drive + PS/2 mouse (no PS/2 keyboard).
Motherboard: GIGABYTE - GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5. There was no bios setting changed, as far as "PS/2 Port 60/64 Emulation".
On initial boot to desktop, where the User name needs to be input, the onscreen keyboard can be used. Once booted onto the desktop, use the motherboard supplied driver disk to install the chipset, LAN & USB.
There's also a 476 Mb "convenience rollup update" for Win7, which can be downloaded ahead of time. Otherwise, there's much wasted time involved in getting the system updated.
Once the USB port driver is installed, the PS/2 mouse can be removed (while system is powered off) and replaced with a USB mouse and keyboard.
***********************
Edit: the board's bios does include "PS/2 Port 60/64 Emulation - Enabled" but failed to actually enable the USB keyboard or mouse during Win7 setup. The PS/2 mouse was sufficient to get the system up and running, however.

 

[HorizonTech]

Many thanks, Vailr, for the test! Really appreciate your effort. Glad, Win 7 installation worked.

 

[HorizonTech]

After some considerations, including comparing 6700K to recent 6800K and 6850K Broadwell-e, as for now decided to go Skylake 6700K route.
Also decided to avoid M.2 SSDs (if needed, will get it later as a second SSD).

So, here's the first draft configuration.
(I don't provide store link as all components will be ordered from our local
supplier with no online catalog).

No overclocking or may be "a bit overclocking up to 4.5 GHz".

ОС Windows 7 Pro x64
CPU i7 6700K
MB Asus z170 Pro Gaming
GPU GTX 1070 (ASUS ROG PCI-E 8192Mb (STRIX-GTX1070-O8G-GAMING)
with 1632 Stock / 1860 Boost MHz; DVI, 2xHDMI 2.0, 2xDisplayPort.
or
MSI 1070 Gaming X with 1506 Stock / 1683 Boost MHz in Silent Mode; DVI, HDMI 2.0b, 3xDisplayPort
or some better and cheaper alternative of 1070?
RAM DDR4 2133 16GB (2x8) Kingston KVR21N15D8/8 8GB (RAM made by SK Hynix Chip.No H5AN4G8NMFRTFC)
or
32GB (2x16) SK Hynix HMA82GU6MFR8N-TF (SK Hynix Chip.No H5AN8G8NMFRTFC)
SSD Samsung 850 Pro 512Gb (have read detailed reviews and remember your, DigDog, suggestion to get "some nearly half the price" but still want to try Samsung. Also I'm considering 850 EVO but think 850 Pro is worth its small extra price premium comparing to EVO). But I continue reading though -).
HDD Seagate 3 TB NAS or WD RED (?)
Case Fractal Design R5 Black (it's not always in stock - are ther good alternatives??)
Power Unit Seasonic 660W SS-660XP2 Active PFC F3
Cooling Thermalright True Spirit 140 Rev A/ Power (??)
DVD RW ASUS DRW-24F1MT (DVD±RW) Black RTL

As I understand the most luck will be needed with MB and RAM.

Is it a balanced config? Please, correct and comment.

By the way, is it a rule to get MB and GPU from the same brand? Does it
provide more stability?

Really appreciate your help.

 

[Ken g6]

As long as you're considering overclocking you should get faster RAM. Minimum 2400 1.2v.

I'm quite pleased with my 2x16 2666. Somehow it's faster even than its clock indicates - something about dual ranking? But I probably paid too much for it.

 

[piasabird]

If you try to load win 7 on a skylake motherboard you can do it with USB but you need to add special drivers.

 

[HorizonTech]

As long as you're considering overclocking you should get faster RAM. Minimum 2400 1.2v.
I'm quite pleased with my 2x16 2666. Somehow it's faster even than its clock indicates - something about dual ranking? But I probably paid too much for it.

Yeah, thanks, I'm considering that. The problem is, that I'd like to get SK Hynix/Samsung or Kingston RAM (Kingston only with SK Hynix chips). But according to Asus Pro Gaming QVL I don't see any 2666 and even 2400MHz 16Gb/8Gb RAM modules with Samsung/SK Hynix chips. Really wouldn't like to experiment with e.g. "Team" or "Apacer" RAM.
G.Skill? But there's no info in the QVL, which chips they use.
Crucual? May be...

Piasabird, thanks. I'm aware of it but will have to take that risk.

 

[DigDog]

get the R4 instead, and if you can get the no-window version. it has extra soundproofing material, and honestly, how many times are you going to look at your PC and go wow .. four? five? soundproofing is better.

also, looks to me like you could get some better ram, considering the rest of the build. i see several DDR4-3000 2x8Gb for $70 or less.
example http://pcpartpicker.com/products/me...466,403600,403666,403733,403866,404000,404133

 

[RussianSensation]

Yeah, thanks, I'm considering that. The problem is, that I'd like to get SK Hynix/Samsung or Kingston RAM (Kingston only with SK Hynix chips). But according to Asus Pro Gaming QVL I don't see any 2666 and even 2400MHz 16Gb/8Gb RAM modules with Samsung/SK Hynix chips. Really wouldn't like to experiment with e.g. "Team" or "Apacer" RAM.
G.Skill? But there's no info in the QVL, which chips they use.
Crucual? May be...

Piasabird, thanks. I'm aware of it but will have to take that risk.

This is irrelevant. There are thousands of memory modules and it's not possible for Asus/Gigabyte/Asrock/MSI to test all possible combinations. With Skylake, the sweet spot for memory is DDR4 3000-3200 given the current prices, but the faster, the better.

Also, unless running virtual machines or you know for sure you will use 32GB of memory, 16GB is all you need.

I would also upgrade your W7 Pro to W10 asap. W10 has DX12 and is the future OS for which games/programs/security updates will be optimized for. I think W7 is more than 5 years old by now.

In your first post you also mention that you won't be gaming much. Why are you getting a GTX1070 then? Get an RX 480 or a GTX1060 instead. For casual gaming those are great cards.

 

[HorizonTech]

DigDog, RussianSensation, thanks for your response!

get the R4 instead, and if you can get the no-window version. it has extra soundproofing material, and honestly, how many times are you going to look at your PC and go wow .. four? five? soundproofing is better.

Didn't know that R5 is equipped with window. I'll take R4, then! Appreciated!

also, looks to me like you could get some better ram, considering the rest of the build. i see several DDR4-3000 2x8Gb

With Skylake, the sweet spot for memory is DDR4 3000-3200 given the current prices, but the faster, the better.

Also, unless running virtual machines or you know for sure you will use 32GB of memory, 16GB is all you need.

I'm thinking of 16Gb. But the price difference for above SK Hynix 16Gb is affordable.

As for 3000+ Mhz, I see two drawbacks:
1) I was strongly recommended to take RAM without heatsinks, but can't
see any such modules at speeds higher than 2133.
2) I've heard that it is not optimal for Skylake and may cause its degradation, meaning that after some time i7 will not be capable to work at such memory speed.

Given very affordable price for 16Gb SK Hynix module, might take it.

By the way - as it is sold by one module, I will have to buy two separate modules of the same RAM. Is it ok, or official kits are strongly recommended?

Also there's Kingston 2x16Gb kit Kingston KVR21N15D8K2/32
About. But it's not in QVL. And no information about chip producer for this modules.

In your first post you also mention that you won't be gaming much. Why are you getting a GTX1070 then? Get an RX 480 or a GTX1060 instead. For casual gaming those are great cards.

On our local market both 1060 and 1070 are significantly overpriced anyway. 1070 is for 2560x1440p @60Hz, as I have such monitor. Also, as I'm not going to replace it for several years, 256-bit memory interface and 8Gb VRAM seems superior.

 

[vailr]

The faster DDR4 modules (rated above about: 2800), are going to require higher voltages (1.35 volts or more) to function. Therefore, may want to consider only 1.2 volt (@ stock setting) modules. Kingston Hynix 2666 DDR4 only requires 1.2 volts, for example.

 

[DigDog]

the ram heatsinks are basically just cosmetic, they do nothing one way or the other. i dont know why you were recommended to get ram w/o the heatsinks, never heard anything like that before. i would disregard any and all advice you got from that person.

memory degradation is not a .. well, it is a real thing, but not really something that should bother you.
yes ram can fail, the motherboard voltage can drop, but i assure you it's basically a non-issue.
if you are worried about this, spend an extra $10-20 and buy ram from Corsair, their customer service is legendary - and it's top quality ram anyway.

the R4 has windows and non-windowed versions. I assume the R5 does too, but not sure.

i read and extensive thread on reddit (ugh, reddit) about the R5 vs R4 and apparently the R4 has slightly better build quality (they are both excellent, so no worries if you wind up with an R5) and it's cheaper. win/win?

 

[Ken g6]

I think some of the advice may have gotten mangled in the retelling.

I think the advice about heatsinks on RAM is to avoid tall heatsinks that may run in to the CPU heat sink. Good advice there.

I think the "memory degradation" issue is about memory controller degradation on the CPU, from running at 1.35V. Skylake is supposed to be designed to run at that voltage (But not 1.5V!), but I saw some weird reports from the first few weeks of chips. Things seem to have gotten better, but if you're still concerned, you can stick with 1.2V RAM.

 

[HorizonTech]

the ram heatsinks are basically just cosmetic, they do nothing one way or the other. ... i would disregard any and all advice you got from that person.

I think some of the advice may have gotten mangled in the retelling.
I think the advice about heatsinks on RAM is to avoid tall heatsinks that may run in to the CPU heat sink. Good advice there.

I think, Ken g6, you are right, very difficult to find proper translation to english of technical words. Please, excuse if it leads to any misunderstandings.

As for now, i'm taking two 16GB modules of 2133 DDR4 SK Hynix HMA82GU6MFR8N It's in the QVL for the board. It is "without heatsinks"
in my terminology.

I think the "memory degradation" issue is about memory controller degradation on the CPU, from running at 1.35V. Skylake is supposed to be designed to run at that voltage (But not 1.5V!), but I saw some weird reports from the first few weeks of chips. Things seem to have gotten better, but if you're still concerned, you can stick with 1.2V RAM.

Yes, I was talking about CPU degradation, not RAM itself. But again, i'm not a specialist in hardware, so only trying to understand.

i read and extensive thread on reddit (ugh, reddit) about the R5 vs R4 and apparently the R4 has slightly better build quality (they are both excellent, so no worries if you wind up with an R5) and it's cheaper. win/win?

I'll try to get R4 without window if available. By the way, it seems that models of R4 with window have W at the end of model number. So hope it will be easy to identify without-window item.