New poll shows Hillary Clinton more unpopular than Trump, even less favorable after election loss

[Moonbeam]

There's difference in kind between factual observations of the world, and subjective opinions about those facts. That conceptual difference is identified with the terminology used in the previous sentence, for example adding 2 items to 2 items results in 4 items no matter the open-mindedness of whoever. This reality exists irrespective of the opinion of religious nutcases.

Yes it does and were you not a religious nutcase, as you put it, you would notice that you constantly confuse your opinions as if they were two plus two, and not your subjective assessment of reality. Your post, for example, was expressed as if it bore some reality to mine when in fact no connection was present. Basically, you saw a Moonbeam post and farted, as usual, pretending to high minded erudition. I suppose what matters was that you were impressed. You are remarkably self unaware. I'm sure you have some more good ones cooked up, no?

 

[Moonbeam]

Just a heads up that Bitek agrees the people who won are the Real dummies. No mystery here why people so easily played tend to lose.

I know. Isn't it wonderful that you and me are too smart to get played? They are such stupid chumps and we're so so so so much better. They should be kissing our feet and looking up to us a Gods. What fucking worthless saps. And once we can finally beat them into submission and bully them into pliancy, shall we have them send us a part of their salaries so we can proselytize and spread the our Godly news? Surely being so superior to others entitles us to some kind of reward. I mean, is worship really enough?

 

[agent00f]

Yes it does and were you not a religious nutcase, as you put it, you would notice that you constantly confuse your opinions as if they were two plus two, and not your subjective assessment of reality. Your post, for example, was expressed as if it bore some reality to mine when in fact no connection was present. Basically, you saw a Moonbeam post and farted, as usual, pretending to high minded erudition. I suppose what matters was that you were impressed. You are remarkably self unaware. I'm sure you have some more good ones cooked up, no?

No great surprise you've basically said the same about empirical science when it contradicts you.

I know. Isn't it wonderful that you and me are too smart to get played? They are such stupid chumps and we're so so so so much better. They should be kissing our feet and looking up to us a Gods. What fucking worthless saps. And once we can finally beat them into submission and bully them into pliancy, shall we have them send us a part of their salaries so we can proselytize and spread the our Godly news? Surely being so superior to others entitles us to some kind of reward. I mean, is worship really enough?

There's such a thing as objective reality even if religious psych cases choose not to believe in it. It's simple fact that some people choose only self-interest and you choose to take advantage of that for evangelical profit.

 

[Moonbeam]

agent00f: No great surprise you've basically said the same about empirical science when it contradicts you.

M: No, that is just an unempirical claim you make throwing in empirical science to pretend it's other than that, a completely illogical and irrational claim backed up by your pretended superiority. It's actually totally transparent, as is most else of what you have to say.

a: There's such a thing as objective reality even if religious psych cases choose not to believe in it. It's simple fact that some people choose only self-interest and you choose to take advantage of that for evangelical profit.

M: This is wonderful news. We get to make up our own facts by referring to them as simple. In that case, it's simply a fact that your argument style is on the two year old level. But I congratulate you on the total lack of self awareness and brain dead unflappability, that allows you to shamelessly post like that. Few who claim to be so superior act on such a transparent level

 

[Bitek]

It's just more of the usual concern trolling- "Bernie was so cheated! He woulda won! Democrats are so stupid!"

Where have I claimed this?

You keep coming back to this.

 

[Jhhnn]

Where have I claimed this?

You keep coming back to this.

I'm agreeing with you. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[Bitek]

I know. Isn't it wonderful that you and me are too smart to get played? They are such stupid chumps and we're so so so so much better. They should be kissing our feet and looking up to us a Gods. What fucking worthless saps. And once we can finally beat them into submission and bully them into pliancy, shall we have them send us a part of their salaries so we can proselytize and spread the our Godly news? Surely being so superior to others entitles us to some kind of reward. I mean, is worship really enough?

Dopes, rubes, saps, idiots, marks. The language of the con artist towards his victims.

How do you think Trump views his supporters when he lies, deceives, and changes his positions so effortlessly?
How do you think he perceives his own actions?

I was listening to NPR's Radio Times' segment yesterday on lies and liars. In a discussion around con artists and the reactions of victims, it was discussed that the con man doesn't view his actions as immortal, but rather creates rationalizations of why the actions are acceptable.

One justification comes down to blaming the victim's gullibility, and if they were too stupid to believe their tricks, well, they got what they deserved.


Extending this outward, I reflected on our own (the left's) reactions to Trump's policies. Part is defiance, but another part is also permissiveness, toying with the acceptance of the policies in the knowledge how much it will harm his own voters. Why? Because if they were too stupid to believe him, they get what they deserve.

Must admit I've waivered between the two emotions, ultimately deciding the damage was too much to bear.
It's a curious thought process at play here.

 

[fskimospy]

Dopes, rubes, saps, idiots, marks. The language of the con artist towards his victims.

How do you think Trump views his supporters when he lies, deceives, and changes his positions so effortlessly?
How do you think he perceives his own actions?

I was listening to NPR's Radio Times' segment yesterday on lies and liars. In a discussion around con artist and reactions of victims, it was discussed that the con man doesn't view his actions and immortal, but rather creates rationalizations of why the actions are acceptable.

One justification comes down to blaming the victim's gullibility, and if they were too stupid to believe their tricks, well, they got what they deserved.


Extending this outward, I reflected on our own (the left's) reactions to Trump's policies. Part is defiance, but another part is also permissiveness, toying with the acceptance of the policies in the knowledge how much it will harm his own voters. Why? Because if they were too stupid to believe him, they get what they deserve.

Must admit I've waivered between the two emotions, ultimately deciding the damage was too much to bear.
It's a curious thought process at play here.

Yeah, I've seen some of this 'they'll get what they deserve, that will teach them!', which I view to be an immoral and shortsighted position to take.

1) Wishing suffering on people seems shitty regardless.
2) You aren't just 'punishing' Trump voters, you are punishing everyone.
3) If you think that's going to teach them something just think back to GWB. I'm sure lots of people thought Republicans would learn their lesson from their support for the disaster that was GWB and stop voting so foolishly. How did that work out?

 

[Jhhnn]

Dopes, rubes, saps, idiots, marks. The language of the con artist towards his victims.

How do you think Trump views his supporters when he lies, deceives, and changes his positions so effortlessly?
How do you think he perceives his own actions?

I was listening to NPR's Radio Times' segment yesterday on lies and liars. In a discussion around con artist and reactions of victims, it was discussed that the con man doesn't view his actions and immortal, but rather creates rationalizations of why the actions are acceptable.

One justification comes down to blaming the victim's gullibility, and if they were too stupid to believe their tricks, well, they got what they deserved.


Extending this outward, I reflected on our own (the left's) reactions to Trump's policies. Part is defiance, but another part is also permissiveness, toying with the acceptance of the policies in the knowledge how much it will harm his own voters. Why? Because if they were too stupid to believe him, they get what they deserve.

Must admit I've waivered between the two emotions, ultimately deciding the damage was too much to bear.
It's a curious thought process at play here.

Con men are social predators, a more refined sort of thug. They're just different kinds of psychopaths.

 

[ivwshane]

Dopes, rubes, saps, idiots, marks. The language of the con artist towards his victims.

How do you think Trump views his supporters when he lies, deceives, and changes his positions so effortlessly?
How do you think he perceives his own actions?

I was listening to NPR's Radio Times' segment yesterday on lies and liars. In a discussion around con artist and reactions of victims, it was discussed that the con man doesn't view his actions and immortal, but rather creates rationalizations of why the actions are acceptable.

One justification comes down to blaming the victim's gullibility, and if they were too stupid to believe their tricks, well, they got what they deserved.


Extending this outward, I reflected on our own (the left's) reactions to Trump's policies. Part is defiance, but another part is also permissiveness, toying with the acceptance of the policies in the knowledge how much it will harm his own voters. Why? Because if they were too stupid to believe him, they get what they deserve.

Must admit I've waivered between the two emotions, ultimately deciding the damage was too much to bear.
It's a curious thought process at play here.

"They deserve what they get" is a reaction out of frustration. I'd bet that most people that say that here don't really wish people to be harmed by their actions. However at some point, you become exhausted and you throw your hands up. That's where a lot of us are right now. We feel powerless to help and our only hope is that people will learn the hard way. At the same time, we know deep down that people will not learn and they will continue harming themselves.

 

[Starbuck1975]

It's simply a fact that a political strategy of conservatives eg fox news was to ferment unrest in the D party during a contentious primary. Sanders largely agreed/caucused with the rest on pretty much all issues.

You just can't help carrying that water.

You just can't bring yourself to acknowledge that the donor class bet on the wrong horse.

Obama vs Clinton was an even more contentious primary. The key difference is that Obama offered a rationale for his candidacy.

It was easy for the GOP to ferment unrest. The DNC gave them a fertile field on which to plant their seeds. The GOP used the same narrative playbook that Obama used to beat Clinton.

You're likable enough

 

[Starbuck1975]

Where have I claimed this?

You keep coming back to this.

He often does. That you had the audacity to question or criticize Clinton automatically means that you're a concern troll.

 

[agent00f]

agent00f: No great surprise you've basically said the same about empirical science when it contradicts you.

M: No, that is just an unempirical claim you make throwing in empirical science to pretend it's other than that, a completely illogical and irrational claim backed up by your pretended superiority. It's actually totally transparent, as is most else of what you have to say.

No, it's simple fact your pet psych "theory" is extrapolated from your abnormal personal experience and contradicts modern empirical/clinical psychology. And similarly when you resort to mysticism when confronted with the fact that we live in an objective physical reality.

a: There's such a thing as objective reality even if religious psych cases choose not to believe in it. It's simple fact that some people choose only self-interest and you choose to take advantage of that for evangelical profit.

M: This is wonderful news. We get to make up our own facts by referring to them as simple. In that case, it's simply a fact that your argument style is on the two year old level. But I congratulate you on the total lack of self awareness and brain dead unflappability, that allows you to shamelessly post like that. Few who claim to be so superior act on such a transparent level

Some facts are objectively simple as they can be readily observed or referenced from readily available material. For example, anyone can look up manic/bipolar depression, particular how it relates to a messiah complex, then see the posts reflecting on your past and current religious fanaticism make for a textbook case, without taking my word for it. This is simply an objective reality which is invariant to whatever you might mouth off about.

 

[agent00f]

You just can't bring yourself to acknowledge that the donor class bet on the wrong horse.

Obama vs Clinton was an even more contentious primary. The key difference is that Obama offered a rationale for his candidacy.

It was easy for the GOP to ferment unrest. The DNC gave them a fertile field on which to plant their seeds. The GOP used the same narrative playbook that Obama used to beat Clinton.

You're likable enough

No, it's simple fact that Clinton did about as well vote wise against Trump as Obama v Romney. The difference is Trump/conservatives pulled out all the racism stops this time which made a difference in the rust belt, which you'll be quick to cover for by blaming the DNC or whatever else it takes.

Yeah, I've seen some of this 'they'll get what they deserve, that will teach them!', which I view to be an immoral and shortsighted position to take.

1) Wishing suffering on people seems shitty regardless.
2) You aren't just 'punishing' Trump voters, you are punishing everyone.
3) If you think that's going to teach them something just think back to GWB. I'm sure lots of people thought Republicans would learn their lesson from their support for the disaster that was GWB and stop voting so foolishly. How did that work out?

It's also simply fact that people who act in rational self-interest respond to (dis)incentive. For example they act less racist publicly if it results in social stigma. The germans certainly understood this with denazification, and american do too but can't bring themselves to solve the problem.

 

[Moonbeam]

Dopes, rubes, saps, idiots, marks. The language of the con artist towards his victims.

How do you think Trump views his supporters when he lies, deceives, and changes his positions so effortlessly?
How do you think he perceives his own actions?

I was listening to NPR's Radio Times' segment yesterday on lies and liars. In a discussion around con artists and the reactions of victims, it was discussed that the con man doesn't view his actions as immortal, but rather creates rationalizations of why the actions are acceptable.

One justification comes down to blaming the victim's gullibility, and if they were too stupid to believe their tricks, well, they got what they deserved.


Extending this outward, I reflected on our own (the left's) reactions to Trump's policies. Part is defiance, but another part is also permissiveness, toying with the acceptance of the policies in the knowledge how much it will harm his own voters. Why? Because if they were too stupid to believe him, they get what they deserve.

Must admit I've waivered between the two emotions, ultimately deciding the damage was too much to bear.
It's a curious thought process at play here.

Wow nice post. I believe that it is understanding that even the con artist believes in the good, that saps get what they deserve, tells us that it is our unconscious and unexamined defects in our opinions of what the good is that is at fault, not our faith there is a good. To me that says that the battlefield is on the plane of ideas, not on a war to criminalize human nature. You can experience the realization of the profound danger the ideas of truth people hold without hating the person themselves. They were programmed and to hate back is just a different take on that program, in my opinion. There may be some who are genetically at risk in the empathy department but there is hope even there.

The whole point, is in how we respond to hate. Hating back, in my opinion, just adds fuel to the flame. A rational sensible response, I think, won't come from agitated hateful minds.

 

[Moonbeam]

"They deserve what they get" is a reaction out of frustration. I'd bet that most people that say that here don't really wish people to be harmed by their actions. However at some point, you become exhausted and you throw your hands up. That's where a lot of us are right now. We feel powerless to help and our only hope is that people will learn the hard way. At the same time, we know deep down that people will not learn and they will continue harming themselves.

I think that once you have abandoned all hope that you personally can do noting by direct assault on the bigotry itself, you can at least take some comfort in the fact that such people can't actually help themselves for being who they are, that in fact they are that way because it was the only way they could survive as children by surrendering to the conditioning. How can we hate people who did the only thing they could to survive.

But all that just means that their real selves, the self that is the same in all of us, is buried deeply not dead. It can awaken at any time and one can never predict how or when. It may be fair to not have much faith in any one particular bigot, but I don't think there is any reason not to have faith in the real person who is hidden. We simply are the same, born in the image of God or whatever the universe put in our genes.

 

[Jhhnn]

He often does. That you had the audacity to question or criticize Clinton automatically means that you're a concern troll.

You haven't shown anything different.

I mean, the point of criticizing Clinton at this point is what, exactly?

Other than inflaming silly & self righteous Bernie bros & gaslighting Dems in general, that is. She lost. She'll never run again. Donald, Vlad, the right wing noise machine & the deplorables gave her the bukkake treatment. Spooged all over her for the delicious liberal tears.

 

[agent00f]

Wow nice post. I believe that it is understanding that even the con artist believes in the good, that saps get what they deserve, tells us that it is our unconscious and unexamined defects in our opinions of what the good is that is at fault, not our faith there is a good. To me that says that the battlefield is on the plane of ideas, not on a war to criminalize human nature. You can experience the realization of the profound danger the ideas of truth people hold without hating the person themselves. They were programmed and to hate back is just a different take on that program, in my opinion. There may be some who are genetically at risk in the empathy department but there is hope even there.

The whole point, is in how we respond to hate. Hating back, in my opinion, just adds fuel to the flame. A rational sensible response, I think, won't come from agitated hateful minds.

I think that once you have abandoned all hope that you personally can do noting by direct assault on the bigotry itself, you can at least take some comfort in the fact that such people can't actually help themselves for being who they are, that in fact they are that way because it was the only way they could survive as children by surrendering to the conditioning. How can we hate people who did the only thing they could to survive.

But all that just means that their real selves, the self that is the same in all of us, is buried deeply not dead. It can awaken at any time and one can never predict how or when. It may be fair to not have much faith in any one particular bigot, but I don't think there is any reason not to have faith in the real person who is hidden. We simply are the same, born in the image of God or whatever the universe put in our genes.

Humans do rather have an inherent intelligence it comes to surviving/success, ie acting in their own rational self-interest. For example, your rational self-interest to be flexible with rhetoric for the sake of maximizing adherents to pet crackpot, same as any other evangelical preacher wannabe.

 

[Moonbeam]

No, it's simple fact your pet psych "theory" is extrapolated from your abnormal personal experience and contradicts modern empirical/clinical psychology. And similarly when you resort to mysticism when confronted with the fact that we live in an objective physical reality.



Some facts are objectively simple as they can be readily observed or referenced from readily available material. For example, anyone can look up manic/bipolar depression, particular how it relates to a messiah complex, then see the posts reflecting on your past and current religious fanaticism make for a textbook case, without taking my word for it. This is simply an objective reality which is invariant to whatever you might mouth off about.

I have a book in a drawer in my den that says you're an idiot and an ass. It is also scientifically authoritative and factual as anybody will see who reads it. It is also much more authoritative than any fiction you care to invent. It is a collaboration of the worlds greatest geniuses. It also says that the bigger the ass you pretend to be, the more transparent you become.

It's all in the book of facts and there's no arguing with it. Sorry about your failure.

 

[agent00f]

I have a book in a drawer in my den that says you're an idiot and an ass. It is also scientifically authoritative and factual as anybody will see who reads it. It is also much more authoritative than any fiction you care to invent. It is a collaboration of the worlds greatest geniuses. It also says that the bigger the ass you pretend to be, the more transparent you become.

It's all in the book of facts and there's no arguing with it. Sorry about your failure.

Great job proving the point about you & science.

 

[Moonbeam]

Humans do rather have an inherent intelligence it comes to surviving/success, ie acting in their own rational self-interest. For example, your rational self-interest to be flexible with rhetoric for the sake of maximizing adherents to pet crackpot, same as any other evangelical preacher wannabe.

Sounds like preaching to me. But then what else is new. It's not like you know much. Isn't this fun. Don't you feel so mature having this dialog with me. You get to proclaim your obsessive compulsion to make an ass of yourself every time I post.

 

[Moonbeam]

Great job proving the point about you & science.

Thank you. Glad you could see how transparent you are when it's my turn to play agent.

 

[agent00f]

Sounds like preaching to me. But then what else is new. It's not like you know much. Isn't this fun. Don't you feel so mature having this dialog with me. You get to proclaim your obsessive compulsion to make an ass of yourself every time I post.

Sure, it's the people who deny evolution that know more. Speaking of preaching, that sounds familiar.

 

[agent00f]

Thank you. Glad you could see how transparent you are when it's my turn to play agent.

I think you're smart enough to know the difference between science books and your books, even if self-interest compels you to pretend otherwise same as your new audience.

 

[ivwshane]

I think that once you have abandoned all hope that you personally can do noting by direct assault on the bigotry itself, you can at least take some comfort in the fact that such people can't actually help themselves for being who they are, that in fact they are that way because it was the only way they could survive as children by surrendering to the conditioning. How can we hate people who did the only thing they could to survive.

But all that just means that their real selves, the self that is the same in all of us, is buried deeply not dead. It can awaken at any time and one can never predict how or when. It may be fair to not have much faith in any one particular bigot, but I don't think there is any reason not to have faith in the real person who is hidden. We simply are the same, born in the image of God or whatever the universe put in our genes.

I don't hate them, I just can't care about them more than they care about themselves.