New poll shows Hillary Clinton more unpopular than Trump, even less favorable after election loss

[agent00f]

Haha, clearly. Everything I've said is backed up by the political science literature, which is why I've cited it. I also imagine it's why you've stubbornly refused to cite any of the literature to back up your points. It's because you can't.

Just like a conservative you think that blindly repeating the same thing will eventually make it true.

No, you literally quoted one source which blew up in your face. Sounds familiar, if speaking of conservatives.

I don't know what to say other than I am baffled by your total lack of reading comprehension.

It sure takes some reading comprehension to see Karol explaining why it was Lugar who stayed steady by externally verifying absolute positions of bills he voted on instead of relying on NOMINATE. Same as anyone can verify that the democrats who were all about the single payer actually voted for Romneycare instead, and so on.

lol, called it.

If you're not going to provide real research to back up what you're saying, just say so. In fact, until you provide some research to back up what you're saying I won't be responding. Sad that you're no better than buckshot when it comes to things like this.

There's plenty of places explaining the proximity of the ACA to Romneycare as opposed to single payer if you can stop pretending to be as dumb as buckshot.

 

[fskimospy]

lol, called it.

 

[agent00f]

lol, called it.

A chucky worthy reply.

The ACA isn't some rando bill but rather the supposed crowning achievement of obama/centrists; let it sink in that their crowning achievement is the other party's healthcare proposal. NOMINATE measures they haven't move right at all as a result; seems legit.

 

[pmv]

Politics is about a heck of a lot more than votes in the legislature - why restrict the measure to such a limited domain? And since when are all votes on all issues of exactly equal importance?

 

[Jhhnn]

A chucky worthy reply.

The ACA isn't some rando bill but rather the supposed crowning achievement of obama/centrists; let it sink in that their crowning achievement is the other party's healthcare proposal. NOMINATE measures they haven't move right at all as a result; seems legit.

The great thing about Dems is that they can recognize good ideas not their own & incorporate them into plans of action. Various Repub plans from 1993 incorporated some of the elements of the ACA but never found favor at the party level.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...5/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

It's also quite clear that Repubs have charged off to the right fringe of the political spectrum in the meanwhile. Witness their current efforts.

Also true is that the ACA extends benefits to ~20M Americans who otherwise would have no coverage. From Dems' perspective, that's a good thing. We'll go even further given the chance.

 

[werepossum]

Nope. Fuck you. You conservatives can try to pick up the pieces. I'll just laugh as you fumble around and fuck shit up worse and worse each year.

Jaskalas is pushing true socialism and you refer to him as one of "you conservatives"? Now I'm unsure if TDS has totally rotted your brain or if you're one of those believing that 90% of the nation is the "far right". Could be both, I suppose. Either way it's both sad and hilarious.

 

[fskimospy]

Politics is about a heck of a lot more than votes in the legislature - why restrict the measure to such a limited domain? And since when are all votes on all issues of exactly equal importance?

The measure is restricted to the legislature because it's a cohesive, coherent body that has clearly defined parameters. Sure it would be great if we could make a larger model that covered everything but that's insanely hard to do. Maybe impossible. As for all votes being equal, legislators take thousands of votes and the thought is that things even out over time. Once you start weighting them you are basically putting your thumb on the scale of the outcome, which might make things more inaccurate.

No model is perfect, but the results of this one are pretty clear and they've turned out to be pretty decent at predicting future behavior. When it comes to social science, that's pretty great.

 

[agent00f]

The great thing about Dems is that they can recognize good ideas not their own & incorporate them into plans of action. Various Repub plans from 1993 incorporated some of the elements of the ACA but never found favor at the party level.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...5/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

It's also quite clear that Repubs have charged off to the right fringe of the political spectrum in the meanwhile. Witness their current efforts.

Also true is that the ACA extends benefits to ~20M Americans who otherwise would have no coverage. From Dems' perspective, that's a good thing. We'll go even further given the chance.

It's a simple fact that Romneycare/ACA is basically the GOP response to Clinton's original healthcare path, and here she & party are 20 years later celebrating complete and utter defeat in that fight. Seem the GOP played their game perfectly, to the extend that people like you still believe they're the smart ones for losing again and again. But good thing NOMINATE still tells us that the democratic party are more liberal than ever for passing conservative legislation.

It's also a simple fact that centrist democrats cannot admit to the previous simple facts any more than conservatives can admit they're russian puppets.

 

[Moonbeam]

lol, called it.

.

A chucky worthy reply.

The ACA isn't some rando bill but rather the supposed crowning achievement of obama/centrists; let it sink in that their crowning achievement is the other party's healthcare proposal. NOMINATE measures they haven't move right at all as a result; seems legit.

First, welcome to eskimospy to the club of racist enablers.....

Now, is politics the art of the possible? If so what is the problem with a Republican bill being the Democrats crowning achievement. Is Obamacare better than what existed before it? Was any kind of healthcare easy to pass? How is a full three branch Republican government doing with changing it? What's the countries feeling about whether they want to lose it. Aren't you some kind of idealistic dreamer and purist, perhaps an insane one at that?

 

[agent00f]

.

First, welcome to eskimospy to the club of racist enablers.....

Now, is politics the art of the possible? If so what is the problem with a Republican bill being the Democrats crowning achievement. Is Obamacare better than what existed before it? Was any kind of healthcare easy to pass? How is a full three branch Republican government doing with changing it? What's the countries feeling about whether they want to lose it. Aren't you some kind of idealistic dreamer and purist, perhaps an insane one at that?

No, eskimosky isn't a racist enabler, just an apologist for centrist D's. But a nazi-apologist creating rapport with him is a pretty good illustration of how politics works.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's a simple fact that Romneycare/ACA is basically the GOP response to Clinton's original healthcare path, and here she & party are 20 years later celebrating complete and utter defeat in that fight. Seem the GOP played their game perfectly, to the extend that people like you still believe they're the smart ones for losing again and again. But good thing NOMINATE still tells us that the democratic party are more liberal than ever for passing conservative legislation.

It's also a simple fact that centrist democrats cannot admit to the previous simple facts any more than conservatives can admit they're russian puppets.

The failed Repub healthcare proposals of 1993 were some of the last semi liberal ideas that Repubs ever had.

Dems celebrate the fact that the ACA delivers coverage to ~20M Americans who otherwise wouldn't have it. It's lke Deng Xiaoping offered- "It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice."

 

[Jhhnn]

It's a simple fact that Romneycare/ACA is basically the GOP response to Clinton's original healthcare path, and here she & party are 20 years later celebrating complete and utter defeat in that fight. Seem the GOP played their game perfectly, to the extend that people like you still believe they're the smart ones for losing again and again. But good thing NOMINATE still tells us that the democratic party are more liberal than ever for passing conservative legislation.

It's also a simple fact that centrist democrats cannot admit to the previous simple facts any more than conservatives can admit they're russian puppets.

If Repubs actually supported those proposals back in 1993, why did they oppose them in 2010? Why didn't they advance them when hey held the legislature during the Dubya years?

Because a vast majority of their congress critters never have supported govt intervention in
healthcare at all. They worship at the altar of the free market capitalist plutocracy & smaller gubmint for less constraints upon it.

Because radical right elements of the financial elite captured the Repub party long ago. They pay the bills & they'll mostly make or break Repub politicians as they see fit. They've funded an enormous decades long propaganda effort that's basically crazified the Repub base. Right now they're breaking balls to get themselves enormous tax cuts regardless of the consequences to the rest of America.

Just keep spreading the FUD.

 

[Moonbeam]

No, eskimosky isn't a racist enabler, just an apologist for centrist D's. But a nazi-apologist creating rapport with him is a pretty good illustration of how politics works.

You answered none of my questions but simply repeated your personal grievance and wound licking, possible over being dismisses as a nobody in the dysfunctional American culture because of your race. You wouldn't happen to be a gifted and highly educated untouchable would you? It seems likely there has to be something in your history that leads you to identify, collect and box other people in a class that is now your turn to justify getting even with and dismiss as totally inferior to you.

The problem every extremist bigot runs into is that by being blind to their own bigotry they lose sight of how people not so infected are easily able to see that bigotry as odd, off the charts, and abnormal. It's very easy to tell a bigot but impossible to tell them much. And you sure fit that bill.

Was Obamacare an exercise in the art of the possible in the sense it is what was able to actually pass and be implemented in reality dismissing all hypotheticals and pipe dreams? Are we better off with or without it?

 

[bshole]

Wrong again! Empirical research shows the opposite.

Here, enjoy another paper from Poole about precisely that subject.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.532.5197&rep=rep1&type=pdf This paper cites large amounts of other research into the topic that shows similar results if you're looking for more diversity.

Why is your response to someone informing you that you don't understand an issue to talk about more things you don't understand?



So basically you made up another false claim to try and escape your original stupid argument. Again, empirical research shows positions are stable over time and it shows that Democrats have become more liberal over time. If you think otherwise, provide empirical research to the contrary. If not, thanks for showcasing your stupidity again. lol. Again, only one of us here actually knows what he's talking about and it sure isn't you.

You're exactly like the conservatives you claim to hate so much. Just as ignorant and stupid, and just as sure you aren't. lol. I absolutely love meeting poseurs like you because you will keep digging deeper and deeper and it just gets funnier and funnier.

Perhaps liberal on social issues. Certainly not on foreign policy and not so much on protecting workers from predatory capitalists.

 

[agent00f]

You answered none of my questions but simply repeated your personal grievance and wound licking, possible over being dismisses as a nobody in the dysfunctional American culture because of your race. You wouldn't happen to be a gifted and highly educated untouchable would you? It seems likely there has to be something in your history that leads you to identify, collect and box other people in a class that is now your turn to justify getting even with and dismiss as totally inferior to you.

The problem every extremist bigot runs into is that by being blind to their own bigotry they lose sight of how people not so infected are easily able to see that bigotry as odd, off the charts, and abnormal. It's very easy to tell a bigot but impossible to tell them much. And you sure fit that bill.

Rather comical hypocrisy from the jesus wannabe.

The entire extent of your psych crackpot is "everyone is reliving their childhood pain", literally a classic case of projecting your own abnormal experience and nothing more. Add to that this new sociopathic play to gain the affections of degens after noticing trump's success at that game. They're the Real victims, amirite?

It's simply a matter of fact that anyone who's actually read the psych book is in a better position to explain that reality as it is, same as anyone who understands evolution is in a better position to explain the origins of humans than the "everything came from the ground" guy who extrapolates everything from his simplistic observation of plant seeds. You know as well as anyone else which is you.

Was Obamacare an exercise in the art of the possible in the sense it is what was able to actually pass and be implemented in reality dismissing all hypotheticals and pipe dreams? Are we better off with or without it?

It's another fact that if Trumpsters want slavery back, the centrists will start negotiating compromise at segregation and celebrate signing off on slavery because it's better than genocide.

Never have I seen a group brag more about being absolute shit at politics.

 

[agent00f]

The failed Repub healthcare proposals of 1993 were some of the last semi liberal ideas that Repubs ever had.

Dems celebrate the fact that the ACA delivers coverage to ~20M Americans who otherwise wouldn't have it. It's lke Deng Xiaoping offered- "It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice."

Bring a friend next time you go buy a car. Better yet bring your new bff moonbeam.

If Repubs actually supported those proposals back in 1993, why did they oppose them in 2010? Why didn't they advance them when hey held the legislature during the Dubya years?

Because a vast majority of their congress critters never have supported govt intervention in
healthcare at all. They worship at the altar of the free market capitalist plutocracy & smaller gubmint for less constraints upon it.

Because radical right elements of the financial elite captured the Repub party long ago. They pay the bills & they'll mostly make or break Repub politicians as they see fit. They've funded an enormous decades long propaganda effort that's basically crazified the Repub base. Right now they're breaking balls to get themselves enormous tax cuts regardless of the consequences to the rest of America.

Just keep spreading the FUD.

Pretty obvious they went further right because they know the dumbshits will predictably follow then brag about political prowess as dumbshits do.

 

[Moonbeam]

Rather comical hypocrisy from the jesus wannabe.

The entire extent of your psych crackpot is "everyone is reliving their childhood pain", literally a classic case of projecting your own abnormal experience and nothing more. Add to that this new sociopathic play to gain the affections of degens after noticing trump's success at that game. They're the Real victims, amirite?

It's simply a matter of fact that anyone who's actually read the psych book is in a better position to explain that reality as it is, same as anyone who understands evolution is in a better position to explain the origins of humans than the "everything came from the ground" guy who extrapolates everything from his simplistic observation of plant seeds. You know as well as anyone else which is you.



It's another fact that if Trumpsters want slavery back, the centrists will start negotiating compromise at segregation and celebrate signing off on slavery because it's better than genocide.

Never have I seen a group brag more about being absolute shit at politics.

Gee, by the time I got to the end of that magnificent example of cow flop some how I hadn't forgotten you didn't answer some simple questions:

Was Obamacare an exercise in the art of the possible in the sense it is what was able to actually pass and be implemented in reality dismissing all hypotheticals and pipe dreams? Are we better off with or without it? I mean, it should be clearly obvious to anybody paying attention that you mocked democrats patsies for voting in a Republican plan. So are the American people better off or worse off with Obamacare, the only healthcare bill that has actually proven to be able to pass because it did.

 

[agent00f]

Gee, by the time I got to the end of that magnificent example of cow flop some how I hadn't forgotten you didn't answer some simple questions:

Was Obamacare an exercise in the art of the possible in the sense it is what was able to actually pass and be implemented in reality dismissing all hypotheticals and pipe dreams? Are we better off with or without it? I mean, it should be clearly obvious to anybody paying attention that you mocked democrats patsies for voting in a Republican plan. So are the American people better off or worse off with Obamacare, the only healthcare bill that has actually proven to be able to pass because it did.

If I were dumb enough to play degens' games I'd be where Jhhnn is.

 

[Maxima1]

No model is perfect, but the results of this one are pretty clear and they've turned out to be pretty decent at predicting future behavior. When it comes to social science, that's pretty great.

No one needs any study. Republicans have moved further right and Democrats haven't gotten more liberal.

The great thing about Dems is that they can recognize good ideas not their own & incorporate them into plans of action. Various Repub plans from 1993 incorporated some of the elements of the ACA but never found favor at the party level.

Bull****! Democrats have decided again to try to double down on identity politics to shift focus off of real change in the economic arena. Much of what the Hildabeast said in the primaries was only said to try to fend off Bernie. Which reminds me, they're going along with the Republicans by making a bunch of hit pieces on Bernie about the FBI investigation. They're afraid -- no terrified! of him despite some of his main points being single payer and free college tuition (which is a drop in the bucket even without reforms to reduce costs).

The failed Repub healthcare proposals of 1993 were some of the last semi liberal ideas that Repubs ever had.

Why are you just going back to 1993 around Gingrich's contract with America? Go back to Nixon and Republican platform had basic income. Jimmy Carter was also at the time when single payer had highest chance of passage, but he squandered it. Jimmy Carter started the liberal fiscal conservatism and Clinton cemented it.

If Repubs actually supported those proposals back in 1993, why did they oppose them in 2010? Why didn't they advance them when hey held the legislature during the Dubya years?

It's like the bull**** "deficits matter" talking point. In reality deficits only matter once Democrats have power. Hilarious how they've had several years ****** but when the bill actually matters to repeal or repeal & replace, they cower.

Because radical right elements of the financial elite captured the Repub party long ago. They pay the bills & they'll mostly make or break Repub politicians as they see fit.

They've also captured the Democrat party as they share many of the same donors, and Republicans have enabled donors to have more and more influence. That's partly why Democrat leadership like Pelosi are against and actively undermining the goal of single payer and other reforms that go against the status quo. It's why Obummer almost got a "grand bargain" with massive cuts. It's why Obummer's own people and other establishment Democrats tried to tell us how great Gorsuch would be.

 

[J.Wilkins]

Jaskalas is pushing true socialism and you refer to him as one of "you conservatives"? Now I'm unsure if TDS has totally rotted your brain or if you're one of those believing that 90% of the nation is the "far right". Could be both, I suppose. Either way it's both sad and hilarious.

Off topic but I'm wondering about this "Trump Derangement Syndrome" thing and how it works.

If I recall correctly the term "Derangement Syndrome" started with Obama after GW as a means to say "stop blaming the old president for the new presidents failed policies", isn't that the case?

So then saying someone has TDS would be like saying "stop blaming Trump for his own mistakes"?

That does seem to be the mantra of Trump himself and his followers which would explain why they keep bringing up Hillary and Obama every other day.

 

[Moonbeam]

If I were dumb enough to play degens' games I'd be where Jhhnn is.

No you're just smart enough to know that if you answered it would show just how wrong you are about the evils of compromise and what chumps democrats were to do it on Obamacare, their crowning achievement. And we see how well the Republicans are doing on their own.

So really simple question having nothing at all to do with degen games, a lie you fabricated to pretend your too smart to answer, is Obamacare a net positive over what was there before, or a net negative. It is the only real healthcare bill we have that has passed in recent times. Try just a + or a - if plus or minus is too hard.

 

[amenx]

What if she gets a hairbrained idea to run again?

 

[ivwshane]

No one needs any study. Republicans have moved further right and Democrats haven't gotten more liberal.



Bull****! Democrats have decided again to try to double down on identity politics to shift focus off of real change in the economic arena. Much of what the Hildabeast said in the primaries was only said to try to fend off Bernie. Which reminds me, they're going along with the Republicans by making a bunch of hit pieces on Bernie about the FBI investigation. They're afraid -- no terrified! of him despite some of his main points being single payer and free college tuition (which is a drop in the bucket even without reforms to reduce costs).



Why are you just going back to 1993 around Gingrich's contract with America? Go back to Nixon and Republican platform had basic income. Jimmy Carter was also at the time when single payer had highest chance of passage, but he squandered it. Jimmy Carter started the liberal fiscal conservatism and Clinton cemented it.



It's like the bull**** "deficits matter" talking point. In reality deficits only matter once Democrats have power. Hilarious how they've had several years ****** but when the bill actually matters to repeal or repeal & replace, they cower.



They've also captured the Democrat party as they share many of the same donors, and Republicans have enabled donors to have more and more influence. That's partly why Democrat leadership like Pelosi are against and actively undermining the goal of single payer and other reforms that go against the status quo. It's why Obummer almost got a "grand bargain" with massive cuts. It's why Obummer's own people and other establishment Democrats tried to tell us how great Gorsuch would be.

You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. Dem leadership all support a single payer option. The issue is a matter of whether or not it would pass and the answer is it has zero chance in hell at the moment. Therefore, Clinton supported an incremental approach and pelosi supports a "states first" approach. Considering both Hillary and pelosi have vastly more legislative accomplishments than Bernie, its pretty clear a full throated approach is not the answer.

Bernies a great politician, he's been on the right side of every issue his entire life. However his list of legislative accomplishments can be counted on one hand and none of them are particularly note worthy.

 

[dank69]

Jaskalas is pushing true socialism and you refer to him as one of "you conservatives"? Now I'm unsure if TDS has totally rotted your brain or if you're one of those believing that 90% of the nation is the "far right". Could be both, I suppose. Either way it's both sad and hilarious.

You wouldn't recognize "true socialism" if you came home to find it in bed with your wife. Jaskalas has been a liberal hating "independent" like you right up until he couldn't deny the data anymore. Of course, the data will never affect you so at least he has that over you. Too bad it's too late to do anything. America stuck a shiv in the sides of the people who have been the only thing standing between them and total domination by the wealthy. So fuck them all. I will get mine and laugh as you sit at your computer wondering why it takes you ten minutes to watch a 30 second youtube video about how stupid liberals are.

 

[Sea Ray]

How different 2016 would have looked if the Ds had 17 candidates to choose from.

Wouldn't have mattered. The Dem machine was set for Hillary. That's why we didn't have more candidates. Guys like Biden were told that under no uncertain terms. That Dem machine let us all down. It meant that we didn't have a decent alternative to Trump