New PS4.5 in the works?

[Homerboy]

http://kotaku.com/sources-sony-is-working-on-a-ps4-5-1765723053

Sony is currently planning a new version of the PS4 with increased graphical power and games running at 4K resolution, developer sources tell Kotaku.

We don’t know whether current PS4 owners will be able to upgrade or if they’ll have to buy an entirely new device to benefit from this power boost, but from what we hear, Sony has started briefing developers.

Based on conversations with developers who have spoken with Sony, this ‘PS4.5’ will include an upgraded GPU both to support high-end 4K resolution for games and add more processing power that can enhance the games supported by PlayStation VR, the headset Sony will launch this fall. It’s unclear if ‘PS4.5’ is an official name or just a nickname that developers have been using. One developer jokingly called it the ‘PS4K’ while telling me about the device.

In layman’s terms, 4K resolution is around four times the pixel size of 1080p, which is the current standard for games on PlayStation 4 and competing consoles. The current PS4 can output 4K photos and videos, but cannot support 4K resolutions for games. With this upgrade, it would. Besides resolution, developers would have an opportunity to push more effects and other graphical tweaks to make their games look better, thanks to the new GPU.

A more powerful PS4 would also allow the machine to be more competitive with PCs in the world of virtual reality. With a higher-end GPU, the PS4 could more easily match up against the more expensive Oculus Rift and HTC Vive virtual reality headsets, which are designed to work with powerful PCs.

When contacted yesterday about this report, Sony declined to comment. “We can’t comment on rumors or speculation,” a spokesperson said in an e-mail.

The circle of people who knew about this upgraded PS4 was small until recently. I first heard about the device from one trusted source, then two. Kotaku’s Jason Schreier and Stephen Totilo were also able to independently verify the existence of these hardware plans with their own developer sources, although some of the details have been vague; one source told us that the device felt “exploratory” and that it may not even be released this year.

We’ve also heard that at this week’s Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, Sony held meetings with developers about the hardware and how it would work. As we were chasing down this story, coincidentally, Kotaku UK EIC Keza MacDonald overheard some developers casually talking about the machine while on line at GDC. They mentioned the name ‘PS4.5’ and discussed its increased horsepower, mentioning both 4K resolution and PlayStation VR.

Our sources aren’t sure when this upgraded machine will ship to consumers, nor how much it will cost. The PS4’s price dropped from $400 to $350 last fall, and one source indicated that this new ‘PS4.5’ could let Sony keep selling PS4 hardware at a higher profit margin for $400.

There are still lots of big questions surrounding the device. Will Sony allow people to trade in their existing PS4s to buy the new machine? How will developers cope with releasing games on multiple types of hardware? Could some games only support PS4.5, as is the case with the New Nintendo 3DS? When this PS4 goes on sale, will Sony continue to sell old PS4 hardware at a lower price? How can Sony manage all this without fragmenting the market?

Right now, we don’t have the answer to those questions.

The PS4.5 may not be alone, either.

I’ve heard whispers about an upgraded Xbox One for a while now, and Microsoft has been public about the possibility. At a press briefing earlier this month, Xbox head Phil Spencer hinted to journalists that his company has been exploring the possibility of evolving hardware. “We look at these other ecosystems out there like mobile, tablet and PC,” Spencer told the assembled press, as reported by Polygon, “and we see that they have a very continuous evolution cycle in hardware, whereas between console generations most of the evolution is making it cheaper and potentially making it smaller.”

Spencer later walked back those comments while speaking on the Major Nelson podcast, pouring some water on the idea of a customizable, PC-like Xbox. “Am I going to break open my console and start upgrading individual pieces of my console? That’s not our plan,” he said. “There is something special about what happens with a console. You buy an appliance-like device; you plug it into your TV; it works when you plug it in. It’s not like I’m going to ship a screwdriver set with every console that comes out.”

Plans are always changing, and some of the details we’ve heard are fuzzy, but one thing has become clear: Sony is exploring the possibility of releasing a more powerful console way before the PlayStation 5. With both Sony and Microsoft possibly entering new territory, and Nintendo’s NX on the way, this should be an exciting year for gaming hardware no matter what comes next.

4/19 Update: http://kotaku.com/more-details-emerge-on-ps4-5-which-reportedly-wont-get-1771708549

Last month, we told you that Sony was working on a new, improved model of the PS4, what was basically a PS4.5. Now Giant Bomb is reporting some further details on this new console, and it all sounds...a bit weird.

Their report says Sony is referring to the upgraded hardware as NEO (something we’ve also heard), and that it will “feature a higher clock speed than the original PS4, an improved GPU, and higher bandwidth on the memory.”

Now here’s where it gets interesting. The new specs mean that there’ll be two types of PS4 games available: those that can run on any PS4, and those that take advantage of the newer console’s extra power. Rather than divide the market, the report says that from October 2016, every single PS4 game that’s released must have a “base mode”, which would work on older consoles, and a “NEO Mode” for the new machines (which would put stuff in 4K, etc). Developers wouldn’t be allowed to make “NEO-only” games, nor could they “separate NEO users from original PS4 players while playing on PSN.”

The NEO wouldn’t replace the current PS4, but “will exist alongside of it and use the same user environment”. And while there’s an October deadline for NEO-compatible releases, that doesn’t mean the new console will be out that month.

Finally, for games that have already been released, Giant Bomb’s report says older titles can also create “NEO mode” versions if they’d like, they just have to go back in and release it as a patch.

 

[ImpulsE69]

There's only 1 game on the New 3DS (and of course the SNES games which is a bunch of BS since we know snes games run on the current 3DS). While a bigger better version of PS4 would be nice, it would fracture the community and hurt whatever lead they have unless they simply produce games at the lower denominator level and have enhancements for those games for the better one. Then again, maybe they'll see why PC gamers get irate about how developing for LCD is an issue.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Gonna call BS on this one. There's no way they would release a new console with different hardware and expect people who just bought them at christmas to be happy.You would have games that would either not work or run like crap on the old one and it's way too early for a PS5. Then you'd have developers literally pulling the plug on games overnight because they would start porting code to the new hardware. You'd have a worse games lineup than we've already had. Both of the things I mentioned are BAD for Sony and MS if not for gaming in general. You want to kill console gaming? Tell people that their $400 box no longer plays the games the same and they need to upgrade to another $400 box. I can see someone playing a game at a friends house and buying it based on that only to realize it looks like crap on their console and they have no idea why. Unless they want us all to just move to PC gaming this makes very little sense to release different "revisions" of the same console every couple years. They are trying to copy the phone model without the benefit of carrier subsidies and payment plans. Some people may think this is a good idea but IMO it ruins the simplicity of consoles for consumers and pushes gamers more and more toward PC. If it becomes a thing I might stop buying consoles. I already deal with PC upgrades to keep up with the latest games. Oh and I don't know how they plan to do 4K gaming when the hardware requirements are pretty high and firing it into a $400 box seems like a big stretch.

That said there are always "hardware plans" but they can be years in the making before there is even any prototype. That's not new.

Oh and Kotaku seems to always have clickbait articles with supposed "industry sources" and other BS that are basically just internet rumors and go nowhwere.

 

[purbeast0]

if this is true, this is a terrible idea.

 

[ImpulsE69]

if this is true, this is a terrible idea.

For once I think we all agree.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Gonna call BS on this one.

That is just it, they are embracing the PC methodology and will simply have the games detect if the system it is running on has capabilities to run at a higher resolution or higher gracphics settings (and/or simply use the PC code that most of the games already implement and give you an options menu to turn on/off various graphics effects and change resolution).

This isn't anything new in the PC world (and in fact has been in use for 30+ years over there...).

 

[cmdrdredd]

That is just it, they are embracing the PC methodology and will simply have the games detect if the system it is running on has capabilities to run at a higher resolution or higher gracphics settings (and/or simply use the PC code that most of the games already implement and give you an options menu to turn on/off various graphics effects and change resolution).

This isn't anything new in the PC world (and in fact has been in use for 30+ years over there...).

May as well just buy a PC then to me. I don't see the appeal to this for a console gamer.

 

[HeXen]

Gonna call BS on this one. There's no way they would release a new console with different hardware and expect people who just bought them at christmas to be happy.You would have games that would either not work or run like crap on the old one and it's way too early for a PS5. Then you'd have developers literally pulling the plug on games overnight because they would start porting code to the new hardware. You'd have a worse games lineup than we've already had. Both of the things I mentioned are BAD for Sony and MS if not for gaming in general. You want to kill console gaming? Tell people that their $400 box no longer plays the games the same and they need to upgrade to another $400 box. I can see someone playing a game at a friends house and buying it based on that only to realize it looks like crap on their console and they have no idea why. Unless they want us all to just move to PC gaming this makes very little sense to release different "revisions" of the same console every couple years. They are trying to copy the phone model without the benefit of carrier subsidies and payment plans. Some people may think this is a good idea but IMO it ruins the simplicity of consoles for consumers and pushes gamers more and more toward PC. If it becomes a thing I might stop buying consoles. I already deal with PC upgrades to keep up with the latest games. Oh and I don't know how they plan to do 4K gaming when the hardware requirements are pretty high and firing it into a $400 box seems like a big stretch.

That said there are always "hardware plans" but they can be years in the making before there is even any prototype. That's not new.

Oh and Kotaku seems to always have clickbait articles with supposed "industry sources" and other BS that are basically just internet rumors and go nowhwere.

Wait, people do it all the time with tablets and phones. Some people buy iPhones and iPads every single year a new hardware model comes out. So long as it's fully backwards compatible with games and peripherals, people will buy. And IF this is true, no doubt it will play the older PS4 games and the old PS4 will likely play the new ones, just at a lower resolution.

We do live in a toss away tech age. Some people won't even keep their TV for more than a few years.

May as well just buy a PC then to me. I don't see the appeal to this for a console gamer.

$400 for an entire system vs $400 + just for a graphics card is probably the appeal. Plus friends online..etc. Console gamers don't like the PC cause it's not as bro friendly.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Wait, people do it all the time with tablets and phones. Some people buy iPhones and iPads every single year a new hardware model comes out. So long as it's fully backwards compatible with games and peripherals, people will buy. And IF this is true, no doubt it will play the older PS4 games and the old PS4 will likely play the new ones, just at a lower resolution.

We do live in a toss away tech age. Some people won't even keep their TV for more than a few years.



$400 for an entire system vs $400 + just for a graphics card is probably the appeal. Plus friends online..etc. Console gamers don't like the PC cause it's not as bro friendly.

Actually most people don't pay full price for those devices. You can differ the cost over time or get a subsidized price. In the case of iPhones they have the "new phone every year" plan where you pay a monthly fee and when a new iPhone releases you get it without actually buying it when you trade in your old one. People are not always going out and paying $700 each time.

This model isn't available for consoles. When you begin to fragment the user base between models, even if the games work, there will be big backlash. Think about my example of someone buying a game they saw at a friend's house and finding out the game runs and looks bad compared to what they thought they were getting because they need to buy the new console. They won't be happy.

Besides all that Microsoft and Sony have shown me that all they know how to do is release remasters, re-releases, and HD versions of old games. A lot of the highly anticipated titles aren't even released yet for the current consoles. Now they want me to buy new hardware every couple years? They have had almost 3 years to bring me some of the experiences they said we would get and it is sad to say but I think the most exciting thing in those 3 years has been backwards compatibility for the xb1. I don't have a lot of confidence they can push out anything meaningful in a 2 year lifecycle and no, playing the game on the old hardware is not appealing.

PC gamers often complain about games being dumbed down for consoles. Now you will have people claiming a game is stripped down to work on the weak hardware in the old console from years ago.

 

[lupi]

If games can scale down themselves to run on either hardware I think it's a good idea. I'd rather have them put out more powerful consoles every couple of years and software stay valid throughout (with option to buy enhancement DLC packs to make it looks better on newer models if you'd like) than how it's done now.

 

[Exophase]

There's only 1 game on the New 3DS (and of course the SNES games which is a bunch of BS since we know snes games run on the current 3DS).

Emulating SNES to release level quality on a 268MHz ARM11 w/o L2 cache is actually really hard. Not necessarily impossible (particularly for some controlled subset of games) but quite likely beyond the ability of Nintendo or their contractors.

 

[cmdrdredd]

If games can scale down themselves to run on either hardware I think it's a good idea. I'd rather have them put out more powerful consoles every couple of years and software stay valid throughout (with option to buy enhancement DLC packs to make it looks better on newer models if you'd like) than how it's done now.

So you want them to monetize the better graphics now in addition to making you buy a new console every 2 or so years? Great lol

 

[xantub]

I'm ok with it, as long as they require devs to target their games at the original hardware. So basically, if you have the new hardware, loading a map could go from 15 seconds to 7, or the occasional frame drop in super-heavy effect situations disappears, but never say "Game only for the PS 4.5".

 

[cmdrdredd]

I'm ok with it, as long as they require devs to target their games at the original hardware. So basically, if you have the new hardware, loading a map could go from 15 seconds to 7, or the occasional frame drop in super-heavy effect situations disappears, but never say "Game only for the PS 4.5".

I don't think that's what they want as most people would not buy the new hardware if it's only minor things like that. Even resolution being 4K probably isn't enough of a jump to make people buy. I don't know many gamers on 4K screens besides myself.

 

[ZGR]

Most console gamers I know and talk to don't even know the difference between 30hz and 60hz let alone 4k.

 

[lupi]

So you want them to monetize the better graphics now in addition to making you buy a new console every 2 or so years? Great lol

not exactly, you can buy and have a slightly better graphic experience, or less load times, or more storage. but game play itself won't really change and it allows those that waited to buy the older editions cheaper increasing the overall install base.

 

[zerocool84]

Of course I'd love a more powerful PS4 but like others, I think this is just a rumor.

 

[sxr7171]

Probably will render current games at 4k30 or maybe somewhere in between and upscale. The masses really like to go for 4k, it's the new catchword in LCD TVs. Most people don't realize they sit too far away to actually notice.

 

[HeXen]

Actually most people don't pay full price for those devices. You can differ the cost over time or get a subsidized price. In the case of iPhones they have the "new phone every year" plan where you pay a monthly fee and when a new iPhone releases you get it without actually buying it when you trade in your old one. People are not always going out and paying $700 each time.

This model isn't available for consoles. When you begin to fragment the user base between models, even if the games work, there will be big backlash. Think about my example of someone buying a game they saw at a friend's house and finding out the game runs and looks bad compared to what they thought they were getting because they need to buy the new console. They won't be happy.

Besides all that Microsoft and Sony have shown me that all they know how to do is release remasters, re-releases, and HD versions of old games. A lot of the highly anticipated titles aren't even released yet for the current consoles. Now they want me to buy new hardware every couple years? They have had almost 3 years to bring me some of the experiences they said we would get and it is sad to say but I think the most exciting thing in those 3 years has been backwards compatibility for the xb1. I don't have a lot of confidence they can push out anything meaningful in a 2 year lifecycle and no, playing the game on the old hardware is not appealing.

PC gamers often complain about games being dumbed down for consoles. Now you will have people claiming a game is stripped down to work on the weak hardware in the old console from years ago.

Which can still translate to a console just the same. A console is a computer, a phone is a computer and even modern TV's are computers nowadays, mine has tons of apps for it. You're stubbornly sticking to the old ideology of what a console is and how a console "should" be sold. Even for PC's, quite a lot has changed this past decade. We went from multiple discs with horrendous DRM schemes, to pay as you play schemes, to micro transactions and from huge towers to options of small ITX form factors....point is, gaming is always evolving, it's just slow enough that we get used to it as it comes.

You don't have to upgrade anything every couple of years. Some people still use the original iPad, I know I did until last year when Target was buying them back for $200 gift card. People will do what they always do, sell the old, buy the new and if tech companies offer trade ins, buy backs, discounts...etc, they'll suck em up just the same. And speaking of complaints, it's funny because all gamers do is complain. Do you not read console forums like Gamespot? Those console gamers complain way more than PC gamers do. They complain about resolution and frame rates especially. So what if they evolve their complaints to something else...does it really matter?

 

[norseamd]

I dunno, if it is a more powerful PS4 that can play all the older games I dont think it is that bad of an idea. I would assume most games would still be made for the PS4, with plenty with unlocked improvement when playing on the PS4.5, and a few games only made for the PS4.5.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I dunno, if it is a more powerful PS4 that can play all the older games I dont think it is that bad of an idea. I would assume most games would still be made for the PS4, with plenty with unlocked improvement when playing on the PS4.5, and a few games only made for the PS4.5.

Then will you be willing to again buy a new PS4 model in another 2 or 3 years after that? Just think about the last 3 years of the PS4's life since launch. Can you honestly say you are happy with the library? Aside from yearly releases (assassin's creed, sports, CoD) and remasters and remakes what really has there been that is the corner stone game?

That's my biggest problem. They haven't delivered on the games, neither MS or Sony really has IMO. There's been a few titles I really enjoyed don't get me wrong but there hasn't been that defining one yet. Are we expected to believe they can deliver games faster on a new set of hardware? Again I'll repeat myself that just because the new games are supposed to work on the old hardware doesn't mean they will work well and you will always be compelled to spend another $400 or whatever price they decide to play it properly.

A lot of you guys seem to think because the game will run on the old hardware that it's no problem. It's a big problem when you start playing online and someone is able to see you first because of longer draw distances or their game is running 60fps and yours is only 30 and they have an advantage. Not only that but there was and still is the whole thing of e3 demos never being what the actual game looks like, this will get worse when you have multiple revisions of the same console and expect people who aren't forum readers to know that how the game looks isn't how their console can play it and it will be an even bigger disparity than now.

 

[norseamd]

Just buy a PC already if you dont have one if you have these problems. I have a PS3 but never use it anymore. And no one ever said you cant have both separate and cross-platform lobbies for console multiplayer. I think how they would run a PS4/PS4.5 dual platform system is more important than whether or not a dual platform system is being done.

 

[Lil Frier]

$400 for an entire system vs $400 + just for a graphics card is probably the appeal. Plus friends online..etc. Console gamers don't like the PC cause it's not as bro friendly.

The $400 card will stay strong for longer, though. It wasn't for 3-4 years before my 2009 5850 became the recommended card, and it's just now getting to the point it doesn't hit the minimum mark with regularity. By comparison, the 2013 consoles released with 2011 GPU tech.

 

[zerocool84]

A big problem is the added cost/time of having two different graphical versions of the same game. As we've seen, there are games that are super buggy with justify the one version, having two definitely drive up costs and potential for issues. Yes of course we get updates on consoles now but I'm not keen on adding another potential issue with the already large amount of issues we already get with some games. I can wait for the next version of the Playstation.

 

[Exophase]

A big problem is the added cost/time of having two different graphical versions of the same game. As we've seen, there are games that are super buggy with justify the one version, having two definitely drive up costs and potential for issues. Yes of course we get updates on consoles now but I'm not keen on adding another potential issue with the already large amount of issues we already get with some games. I can wait for the next version of the Playstation.

They'd probably just support higher resolutions and frame rates, as opposed to different assets or anything else that costs a lot. They're pretty much already doing the same thing between XB1, PS4, and PC of varying targets.