New PS4.5 in the works?

[cmdrdredd]

Exactly. Remind me never to come near the console subforum again, I haven't seen this much doom and gloom since.. ever I think.

If you bought a PS4 that promised X performance, guess what? You will continue to get X performance.

Sony is now giving consumers an option to pay more for Y performance and it will deliver, Y performance.

People hate change and always call for its failure but I promise you, this is the correct move for consoles. Developers have been targeting multiple levels of performance for years and this will add maybe 1% to switch on a few things and upscale the render output resolutions.

I highly doubt most people knew about any difference in PS4 vs XBONE GPU. I would argue most simply saw that it was $100 cheaper and that it didn't suffer from that HORRIBLE PR fiasco from E3 2013 where Microsoft shot themselves in their own foot by saying on public record that you wouldn't be able to play used games, you'd be forced to use the Kinect, and that it had to be always online to use it for even single player.

Its laughable to think the market turnout was because of a perceived "GPU Disparity".

Consoles are adapting to modern trends and Sony is definitely making the right move here; update its SoC to maintain compatibility while offering an upgrade path for those with the means to and those that want to utilize their shiny new 4k TVs.

Except now the new games will run worse and look worse on the old box vs the new box and people will know it. So you aren't getting the premium experience on your console any longer. That is the perception issue that we are talking about. They wanted the PS4 to be "the best place to play". That's Sony's words from the last two E3 conferences. Now it will be treated as second best because they have the neo version or PS4.5...whatever.

You'll have developers showing games at E3 running on hardware that people think they have but don't because they don't have the new console. It'll be a big problem especially when someone plays a game at a friend's house or a demo kiosk and then the game doesn't look the same at home. I'm not talking about resolution because that's not the only changes that will be made I'm sure. Then...lazy devs who don't do any work for the new one on their game and the forums blow up with "the old console is holding us back"

You can't compare it to the PC platform because gamers on the PC understand their hardware for the most part and realize they won't always be able to run on ultra and may have to sacrifice resolution and such a bit to get a playable experience. Most console gamers are not used to this and would not likely understand the hardware tiers and why a game runs but doesn't run the same or look the same as another console playing the same game. It's not the same as the XB1 vs PS4 because people understand they are two different consoles. This will be one game, marketed for PS4 that runs differently depending on which PS4 model you have. That's just not going to sit well with many consumers and trying to explain it in a way that they can understand and won't anger them since they just spent $400 on a PS4 not long ago is going to be tough. I believe a great many people will just build a PC and give up on consoles if they have to keep buying new hardware every few years, why do that when you can just go right to the top and build a good PC and upgrade the GPU every couple years just the same?

 

[poofyhairguy]

also better games eco system is a matter of opinion

Fair enough, if you made your decision based on actual games only the PS4 has then I wasn't really talking about you. I was talking about the people who in 2013/2014 bought the PS4 because they assumed it would have a longer future as the top dog of consoles because it was the most powerful box.

I would like to think that most people buy consoles for the right reasons, aka it has the games they want. Yet I have seen enough comments in the articles that talk about some game running at 900p on the Xbox One to know that quite a few PS4 gamers kinda considered themselves some sort of "console master race" because their box got the better version of games. Now that segment of the PS4 base either needs to shell out another $400 for a PS4.5, or wallow in their misery of knowing that they too are a second class console citizens just like the Xbox One owners they used to chide.

Except now the new games will run worse on the old box vs the new box and you know it will. So you aren't getting the premium experience on your console any longer. That is the perception issue that we are talking about. They wanted the PS4 to be "the best place to play". That's Sony's words from the last two E3 conferences. Now it will be treated as second best because they have the neo version or PS4.5...whatever.

Yes! Thank you! That is exactly what I meant!

 

[purbeast0]

BREAKING NEWS AT 11 - XBOX ONE IS THE CONSOLE OF CHOICE FOR PLAYING XBOX ONE GAMES!!

/caps

 

[swilli89]

Except now the new games will run worse and look worse on the old box vs the new box and people will know it. So you aren't getting the premium experience on your console any longer. That is the perception issue that we are talking about. They wanted the PS4 to be "the best place to play". That's Sony's words from the last two E3 conferences. Now it will be treated as second best because they have the neo version or PS4.5...whatever.

Ah no, not at all. If the PS4 Neo's additional power is used to render the same games at 4k, and the PS4 continues to run at 1080p at the exact same quality settings, then how is that "new games will run worse and look worse"? The users will continue to get the same quality that they already paid for. Zero problems here. It's not Sony's fault people are so materialistic that they get upset about not having the best three years after release.

You'll have developers showing games at E3 running on hardware that people think they have but don't because they don't have the new console. It'll be a big problem especially when someone plays a game at a friend's house or a demo kiosk and then the game doesn't look the same at home. I'm not talking about resolution because that's not the only changes that will be made I'm sure. Then...lazy devs who don't do any work for the new one on their game and the forums blow up with "the old console is holding us back"

You're making a whole lotta assumptions here. You outlined a situation where consumers are dumb and ill-informed; that's not Sony's fault at all. Also you have no idea what performance targets or quality targets they are shooting for in PS4 Neo. All signs point to the additional hardware being used for 4k rendering (which people with 1080P TV's wouldn't need anyways, and VR).

You can't compare it to the PC platform because gamers on the PC understand their hardware for the most part and realize they won't always be able to run on ultra and may have to sacrifice resolution and such a bit to get a playable experience. Most console gamers are not used to this and would not likely understand the hardware tiers and why a game runs but doesn't run the same or look the same as another console playing the same game. It's not the same as the XB1 vs PS4 because people understand they are two different consoles. This will be one game, marketed for PS4 that runs differently depending on which PS4 model you have. That's just not going to sit well with many consumers and trying to explain it in a way that they can understand and won't anger them since they just spent $400 on a PS4 not long ago is going to be tough. I believe a great many people will just build a PC and give up on consoles if they have to keep buying new hardware every few years, why do that when you can just go right to the top and build a good PC and upgrade the GPU every couple years just the same?

So you are the ultimate consumer advocate huh? You made like 8 assumptions in this one blurb alone. Do you have any research of facts to back any of that up?

And to highlight the bolded text, that's nowhere near reality and why people choose the platforms they choose. If someone wants to relax on the couch with a controller in hand and not worry about RAM, power supply, Windows installs and update and the million other things related to PC, then they choose a console. Three years is plenty of time for a console to sit at the same performance level before an update is released that does NOT break compatibility.


One final time, this is NOT aimed at people with 1080P televisions. Neo games will not look way better or run way better at that setting, this is targeted at gamers who haven't bought in yet due to lack of 4k, or gamers that are currently gaming on 4k but have the money to upgrade.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Ah no, not at all. If the PS4 Neo's additional power is used to render the same games at 4k, and the PS4 continues to run at 1080p at the exact same quality settings, then how is that "new games will run worse and look worse"? The users will continue to get the same quality that they already paid for. Zero problems here. It's not Sony's fault people are so materialistic that they get upset about not having the best three years after release.




You're making a whole lotta assumptions here. You outlined a situation where consumers are dumb and ill-informed; that's not Sony's fault at all. Also you have no idea what performance targets or quality targets they are shooting for in PS4 Neo. All signs point to the additional hardware being used for 4k rendering (which people with 1080P TV's wouldn't need anyways, and VR).



So you are the ultimate consumer advocate huh? You made like 8 assumptions in this one blurb alone. Do you have any research of facts to back any of that up?

And to highlight the bolded text, that's nowhere near reality and why people choose the platforms they choose. If someone wants to relax on the couch with a controller in hand and not worry about RAM, power supply, Windows installs and update and the million other things related to PC, then they choose a console. Three years is plenty of time for a console to sit at the same performance level before an update is released that does NOT break compatibility.


One final time, this is NOT aimed at people with 1080P televisions. Neo games will not look way better or run way better at that setting, this is targeted at gamers who haven't bought in yet due to lack of 4k, or gamers that are currently gaming on 4k but have the money to upgrade.

I guess you have never heard of something called consumer perception. The perception is that the old box is the low end model and the reality is that the games do NOT look as good as the new console. Thus it runs worse.

You don't need research facts to know how consumers are. Spend any amount of time in a retail setting and you'll see how ill informed people really are. Stop reading forums and go out in the world and see how little people actually know about the products out there.

I don't know what alternate reality you live in where a 3 year old console with 99% of the games worth talking about being recycled titles from the old console is acceptable.

So again go look up what perception means and apply it here. Sony built up the perception of the PS4 being the premium console experience and they now relegate that to second class status. That's what's going on here, and if you think any games will actually be rendered at 4k and playable you're delusional. I am confident that the extra power will be used for effects and details more often.

 

[sze5003]

There is no way the console will render games playable at 4k. A top notch PC has issues doing that currently without a bunch of hardware upgrades.

Its going to scale game resolution up from 1080 and support 4k streaming for multimedia such as Netflix and other methods of Media.

 

[swilli89]

I guess you have never heard of something called consumer perception. The perception is that the old box is the low end model and the reality is that the games do NOT look as good as the new console. Thus it runs worse.

You don't need research facts to know how consumers are. Spend any amount of time in a retail setting and you'll see how ill informed people really are. Stop reading forums and go out in the world and see how little people actually know about the products out there.

I don't know what alternate reality you live in where a 3 year old console with 99% of the games worth talking about being recycled titles from the old console is acceptable.

So again go look up what perception means and apply it here. Sony built up the perception of the PS4 being the premium console experience and they now relegate that to second class status. That's what's going on here, and if you think any games will actually be rendered at 4k and playable you're delusional. I am confident that the extra power will be used for effects and details more often.

You conflicted your own post so many times I won't even go through it. But at the end of the day, what is your point? You want less options? Fine, just ignore this new release and stick your head in the sand while everyone else enjoys higher quality games.

 

[sze5003]

I wonder how many people will buy if they already don't have a 4k TV. I don't have one and no plans of getting one either. There better be some qualities that would make such a purchase justifying. Hell I don't even watch TV or have an HD box..tired of getting up charged for cable I barely use by Comcast every 6 months with their "promotions."

 

[purbeast0]

Ah no, not at all. If the PS4 Neo's additional power is used to render the same games at 4k, and the PS4 continues to run at 1080p at the exact same quality settings, then how is that "new games will run worse and look worse"? The users will continue to get the same quality that they already paid for. Zero problems here. It's not Sony's fault people are so materialistic that they get upset about not having the best three years after release.

i agree 100% with this statement and is always why i lol when people say that one consoles graphics are incredible and the other looks like crap. or when people say LOL PC IS AWESOME PS4 AND XBOX ONE LOOK LIKE GARBAGE!

no ... all 3 of them look great.

 

[purbeast0]

I wonder how many people will buy if they already don't have a 4k TV. I don't have one and no plans of getting one either. There better be some qualities that would make such a purchase justifying. Hell I don't even watch TV or have an HD box..tired of getting up charged for cable I barely use by Comcast every 6 months with their "promotions."

lets be real people will still buy it and think their HD tvs will be displaying it in 4k.

just like people bought HD tv's but still had cable boxes hooked up on coax and stretched the 4:3 picture to fit 16:9 screen and were like OMG LOOK HOW GOOD HD LOOKS!!

 

[sze5003]

lets be real people will still buy it and think their HD tvs will be displaying it in 4k.

just like people bought HD tv's but still had cable boxes hooked up on coax and stretched the 4:3 picture to fit 16:9 screen and were like OMG LOOK HOW GOOD HD LOOKS!!

Its sad but true, I can see many thinking it will also be a box that turns your TV into 4k lol. At least the average consumer.

Still sucks from a standpoint of visuals and effects, obviously those with the 4.5 will get the better experience assuming they are using the proper display.

At the same time, a lot of the PS4 multiplatform games have been remakes with the exclusion of bloodborne, infamous, the order, and uncharted. What are they going to do release 4k remakes as well the first two years?

I'm also looking at the free games with gold vs the free Sony games. Triple A titles sometimes vs mostly third party indie. I don't play online on Xbox because most of my buddies have a ps4 but I was just looking at my free games library I have accumulated and noticed this.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Ah no, not at all. If the PS4 Neo's additional power is used to render the same games at 4k, and the PS4 continues to run at 1080p at the exact same quality settings,

Is this from a source or is this your speculation?

 

[sze5003]

Is this from a source or is this your speculation?

According to this visuals will be better but player base will not be separate and neither will the games. Also it's saying the neo will be required to maintain the same frame rate or better as the ps4 games.

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/sources-the-upgraded-playstation-4-is-codenamed-ne/1100-5437

 

[poofyhairguy]

According to this visuals will be better but player base will not be separate and neither will the games. Also it's saying the neo will be required to maintain the same frame rate or better as the ps4 games.

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/sources-the-upgraded-playstation-4-is-codenamed-ne/1100-5437

Thank you for the link. This is an interesting hardware generation of consoles for sure. Kinda refreshing after the last generation which was pretty boring.

 

[iluvdeal]

My guess is when it does finally come out and we side by side comparisons of "normal" PS4 games versus NEO mode, the differences won't be that great as the hardware changes aren't that big.

I own a PS4 and 4k TV but I won't upgrade just for slightly better game graphics. However if I want to get a Ultra HD (4k) Blu-ray player down the road and the price of PS4.5 drops, I'll definitely consider it. I like that this upgrade option is available and that it doesn't split the userbase like the Sega 32X did. There's no need to keep a console's hardware whose lifespan is 5+ years static.

 

[showb1z]

I guess you have never heard of something called consumer perception. The perception is that the old box is the low end model and the reality is that the games do NOT look as good as the new console. Thus it runs worse.

You don't need research facts to know how consumers are. Spend any amount of time in a retail setting and you'll see how ill informed people really are. Stop reading forums and go out in the world and see how little people actually know about the products out there.

I don't know what alternate reality you live in where a 3 year old console with 99% of the games worth talking about being recycled titles from the old console is acceptable.

So again go look up what perception means and apply it here. Sony built up the perception of the PS4 being the premium console experience and they now relegate that to second class status. That's what's going on here, and if you think any games will actually be rendered at 4k and playable you're delusional. I am confident that the extra power will be used for effects and details more often.

The PS4 was going to lose the "premium feel" anyway when the NX releases.
A new Nintendo console with their usual strong 1st party line-up, real 3rd party support and more powerful hardware could be a major issue for Sony/MS. This is a perfectly logical move.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

The PS4 was going to lose the "premium feel" anyway when the NX releases.
A new Nintendo console with their usual strong 1st party line-up, real 3rd party support and more powerful hardware could be a major issue for Sony/MS. This is a perfectly logical move.

That's just not how Nintendo works.

 

[sze5003]

My guess is when it does finally come out and we side by side comparisons of "normal" PS4 games versus NEO mode, the differences won't be that great as the hardware changes aren't that big.

I own a PS4 and 4k TV but I won't upgrade just for slightly better game graphics. However if I want to get a Ultra HD (4k) Blu-ray player down the road and the price of PS4.5 drops, I'll definitely consider it. I like that this upgrade option is available and that it doesn't split the userbase like the Sega 32X did. There's no need to keep a console's hardware whose lifespan is 5+ years static.

If anything the visuals should pop out more assuming they get the scaling right for the larger resolution. But I bet most of that stuff will mainly deal with lighting improvements, effects, draw distance.

 

[purbeast0]

My guess is when it does finally come out and we side by side comparisons of "normal" PS4 games versus NEO mode, the differences won't be that great as the hardware changes aren't that big.

I own a PS4 and 4k TV but I won't upgrade just for slightly better game graphics. However if I want to get a Ultra HD (4k) Blu-ray player down the road and the price of PS4.5 drops, I'll definitely consider it. I like that this upgrade option is available and that it doesn't split the userbase like the Sega 32X did. There's no need to keep a console's hardware whose lifespan is 5+ years static.

32x was a peripheral, this is a new console. apples to oranges.

 

[sweenish]

That's just not how Nintendo works.

That's not how Nintendo HAS WORKED due to their hardware. If NX is more traditional, third parties will develop for it again. Granted, 4 generations is a long time, and very nearly qualifies the way you said it.

Rumors have said it's pretty much as simple as changing targets to get NX code to compile.

 

[Sonikku]

The processor is still crap. They needed to double its power more badly than they needed to double the gpu.

 

[Homerboy]

People get updated $800 phones every 6 months and barely blink.
Updated 3 year old console and it's the end of the world?

 

[sze5003]

People get updated $800 phones every 6 months and barely blink.
Updated 3 year old console and it's the end of the world?

I think people don't mind as much as long as they have some discount to upgrade to the new one. You have people that just got a ps4 and now they feel screwed over because they won't feel like they have the same experience. I think this most people's view on it. Not so much that it's a new device.

At the same time they didn't do jack with ps4 in terms of new games..two years of remakes and all of a sudden let's make a new console. Its just not a popular business idea for consoles.

Phones make more sense..name one person who you know doesn't have their smartphone on them constantly. Therefore, more viable for an upgrade.

 

[Trader05]

People get updated $800 phones every 6 months and barely blink.
Updated 3 year old console and it's the end of the world?

This^

 

[Homerboy]

I think people don't mind as much as long as they have some discount to upgrade to the new one. You have people that just got a ps4 and now they feel screwed over because they won't feel like they have the same experience. I think this most people's view on it. Not so much that it's a new device.

At the same time they didn't do jack with ps4 in terms of new games..two years of remakes and all of a sudden let's make a new console. Its just not a popular business idea for consoles.

Phones make more sense..name one person who you know doesn't have their smartphone on them constantly. Therefore, more viable for an upgrade.

I just got a PS4 and don't feel slighted in the least. Technology marches on. I get it. If it made my current games obsolete, I'd be upset, but I lose noting in this scenario (as it's currently being understood at least). I'm guessing there will be a "discount to upgrade" too - a trade in program, selling your PS4 yourself etc etc. Nobody said the PS4 needs to be thrown in the garbage.

If/when they come out with this new PS4.5 I assure you it will sell like crazy.