New "reliable" computer needed, Dell?

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: DrCool


nick1985

I know you really get a hard on for Chaintech.. but my whole point is Chaintech is UNPROVEN, and hasn't CONSISTENTLY produced a quality product, or supported it..

the review i posted shows, they are INCONSISTENT at this point. and both those boards are based on the same platform, the ZNF3-150 is supposed to be their 'coup de gra' of motherboards.. go figure.

"We are extremely pleased to award our Silver Editors Choice to the Chaintech VNF-250 motherboard. As the first in a new Zenith Value Series, we think Chaintech has a great idea - build an overclocker's dream board with all the performance and none of the frills for the lowest possible price. Chaintech also managed to do it without giving up really important features, which is even more commendable. The fact that Chaintech was a top performer in our overclocking tests at a price of less than $100 deserves our award. The VNF-250 proves that you can build a board any enthusiast will want without breaking the bank. Well done, Chaintech."

---Anandtech.com

so should i believe you or anandtech?

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: DrCool
Wingznut

I can't stand by idlely while ignorance is propagated.

Then enlighten us. What's a better system (including EVERYTHING) than the Dell I linked above, for a similar price?

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: techwanabe

Originally posted by: Gurck
A builder considering Dell? That's a first I'll just make the obligatory "are you nuckin' futs?" comment and move along

LOL!!! I'm just watching the debri's flying over head!

I've gotten a bit tired of sending components back - but I'm willing to consider a homebuilt system comperable to the Dell system I've been looking at for $1038 (that is my limit):

Dimension 8400
Pentium® 4 Processor 530 with HT Technology (3GHz, 800 FSB)
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
1Yr Ltd Warranty, 1Yr At-Home Service, and 1Yr Technical Support
1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz (2x512M)
160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/dbl layer write capability
FREE UPGRADE! 19 in E193FP Flat Panel Display
128MB PCI Express? x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon? X800 SE

I can certainly understand your position, but I'm inclined to believe it's an isolated experience and not the norm... by and large, DIYers have far better experiences, and I'm no exception - my DIY rigs blow away prebuilts I've come across in any aspect you can think of - price, reliability, customer support (me! ), customizability, quality, etc.

 

[thirdlegstump]

Macintosh.

 

[techwanabe]

I can certainly understand your position, but I'm inclined to believe it's an isolated experience and not the norm... by and large, DIYers have far better experiences, and I'm no exception - my DIY rigs blow away prebuilts I've come across in any aspect you can think of - price, reliability, customer support (me! ), customizability, quality, etc.

I don't know - after 4 years of it, maybe I'm just tired of trying to figure out what parts are good from listening to 50 people argue about which parts are best!

I actually enjoy the "tinkering" aspect of computers and it's nice to be able to know how to fix it blah blah. Just like anything else, you have those times when something keeps going wrong and you get disgruntled. My first PC I built was great - I replace the mobo/CPU, and that has worked great. I've built a bunch of computers at my last job, and those all worked great.

Frankly the system suggested looks pretty good to me - not much I don't like about it. Yes, the proprietary case/motherboard from Dell is annoying after the support runs out. That is the down side, esp if the computer breaks down.

I'm still open to persuation and convincing - I have to say the 19" LCD flat panel thrown in makes it pretty tempting. I think I would be hard pressed to build a computer of same spec's and add a 19" flat screen for 1000G's.

 

[ponyo]

I'm still open to persuation and convincing - I have to say the 19" LCD flat panel thrown in makes it pretty tempting. I think I would be hard pressed to build a computer of same spec's and add a 19" flat screen for 1000G's.

Most likely you can't. That's why that Dell deal is pretty decent one. When you factor in $100 for OS and $400 for the LCD, you can't build rest of that computer for $500. Very good specs on the rest of the components.

 

[techwanabe]

Originally posted by: Naustica

I'm still open to persuation and convincing - I have to say the 19" LCD flat panel thrown in makes it pretty tempting. I think I would be hard pressed to build a computer of same spec's and add a 19" flat screen for 1000G's.

Most likely you can't. That's why that Dell deal is pretty decent one. When you factor in $100 for OS and $400 for the LCD, you can't build rest of that computer for $500. Very good specs on the rest of the components.

I was adding up components and doing the math quickly in my head and I think it looks pretty good too, even if it does make builders cringe.

 

[ponyo]

I was adding up components and doing the math quickly in my head and I think it looks pretty good too, even if it does make builders cringe.

Building your own is nice but people here make too big deal of it. They think it's something difficult and special about it when in reality any trained monkey could do it. There are pros and cons to both DIY and buying something like Dell. It's up to the individual to see which solution is better.

 

[techwanabe]

Yeah,

I think to build a box with good parts with the same overall specs as that hot deal Dell computer would probably cost around $1000, including a copy of Windows XP etc. So basically I'm getting a free 19" LCD.

I noticed it is a VGA only with max 1200x1024 res an 16 ms refresh. Having only used conventional CRT's (mine is a 17" Samsung 753DF), how do you think I'd like the Dell 19" LCD? I'm not an screen afficianado or heavy duty FPS gamer, but rather play mostly RPG's like BG, IWD, NWN and lately Sacred. I like having a computer which can handle games well, so the Dell CPU with Radeon X800SE sound plenty good 'nuff - the screen, again, no experience with LCD. I've always heard CRT's are best for gaming.

 

[OMGoddess]

Originally posted by: DrCool

Originally posted by: Robor
An Optiplex is a workstation? Ha! You don't have a clue, do you? The Dell Optiplex is a simple and small desktop system designed for general use (Office apps, Email, etc), not a workstation designed for power users. It's pretty obvious you've never supported one because if you had you'd know that.

And apparently math and logic are not your strong point so I'll try and simplify it. If you have 30 sticks of memory and 2 of them fail it's 28 divided by 30 for a 93.33% good rate and 6.67% bad rate. It doesn't matter if they were quickly replaced or not, they still failed. Do *YOU* understand that?

Now quit posting in this thread before you dig the hole any deeper. At this point you're only throwing dirt on yourself...

you really are dense.. a workstation is just that, lets brake down the word:

work - the labor, task, or duty that is one's accustomed means of livelihood
station - equipment used usually by one person for performing a particular job

if you go to Dells website, the Optiplex series is listed under small business systems:
http://www1.us.dell.com/conten...n&s=bsd&~ck=mn

so, a Dell Optiplex computer, is a WORKSTATION

and it DOES matter if they are replaced.. as that would mean, they didn't become useless.. CRUCIAL will stand behind their product, can't be said of all companies

DGath

I've never said you had to spend ALOT to get quality components, just utilize companies that are QUALITY and back their products.

Wingznut

I can't stand by idlely while ignorance is propagated.

http://www1.us.dell.com/conten...=04&l=en&s=bsd'

This is a workstation, a poweruser computer what you posted is a desktop for small users.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: DrCool

Originally posted by: Robor
An Optiplex is a workstation? Ha! You don't have a clue, do you? The Dell Optiplex is a simple and small desktop system designed for general use (Office apps, Email, etc), not a workstation designed for power users. It's pretty obvious you've never supported one because if you had you'd know that.

And apparently math and logic are not your strong point so I'll try and simplify it. If you have 30 sticks of memory and 2 of them fail it's 28 divided by 30 for a 93.33% good rate and 6.67% bad rate. It doesn't matter if they were quickly replaced or not, they still failed. Do *YOU* understand that?

Now quit posting in this thread before you dig the hole any deeper. At this point you're only throwing dirt on yourself...

you really are dense.. a workstation is just that, lets brake down the word:

work - the labor, task, or duty that is one's accustomed means of livelihood
station - equipment used usually by one person for performing a particular job

if you go to Dells website, the Optiplex series is listed under small business systems:
http://www1.us.dell.com/conten...n&s=bsd&~ck=mn

so, a Dell Optiplex computer, is a WORKSTATION

and it DOES matter if they are replaced.. as that would mean, they didn't become useless.. CRUCIAL will stand behind their product, can't be said of all companies.

Um, before you call anyone dense maybe you should go back and read some of your posts. I don't want to break out the spelling and grammar police badge but you went over your limit a long time ago.

I'm quite aware of what an Optiplex system is, unlike you I've actually used and supported them. It's a low - mid grade desktop geared toward low cost and small size. That does *NOT* classify it as a "Workstation" (keep in mind this was your word used to back your weak argument). But since you offered *your* incorrect definition I'll attempt to educate you... Workstation Defined:

"WORKSTATION - A high-powered computer, one step below a minicomputer and a step above a microcomputer. The term often refers to fairly powerful dual-processor computers used to generate 3D images or manipulate 2D images or sound. Often workstations require very powerful graphics setups."

Now does that sound like a Dell Optiplex? I think not. Maybe next time you attempt to define something you should put the words together? Now put down the shovel and climb out of the hole.

 

[ponyo]

Although I would only buy LCD with DVI, that 19" LCD doesn't look too bad. 16ms is good response time and should be fine for the type of games you like to play. IMO, that LCD will be HUGE upgrade from your 17" Samsung CRT. While it's true that CRT is still the way to go for heavy gamer, you don't really fit that profile. I think LCD would actually better fit you based on the type of games you like to play. Radeon X800SE is perfect card for the 1284x1024 native resolution of that LCD and should easily power all your games at that res.

 

[techwanabe]

Originally posted by: Naustica
Although I would only buy LCD with DVI, that 19" LCD doesn't look too bad. 16ms is good response time and should be fine for the type of games you like to play. IMO, that LCD will be HUGE upgrade from your 17" Samsung CRT. While it's true that CRT is still the way to go for heavy gamer, you don't really fit that profile. I think LCD would actually better fit you based on the type of games you like to play. Radeon X800SE is perfect card for the 1284x1024 native resolution of that LCD and should easily power all your games at that res.

Naustica,

Thanks for your helpful comments. I have to say LCD's are sexy, but I've been a bit sceptical of them due to the comments that people say about CRT's being best AND the bit about games or other app's not being displayed at native resolutions. LCD's have to interpolate because they have a fixed number of pixels vs the CRT which can adjust the density of pixels with the magnetic harness. If you think the monitor listed in the deal will work good for me, and handle some light 3D gaming, this may work out well for me.

 

[ponyo]

I've been using Dell 2001FP 20" LCD and Sony G520P 21" CRT dual monitor setup since last year so I've some firsthand experience with pros and cons of using CRT and LCD. Just like building your own vs buying Dell, there are pros and cons to CRT/LCD.

Think of it this way. If you do decide to go with that Dell, you basically get that 19" LCD for free. You can use it or sell it or do whatever you want with it. Personally I think it's a huge upgrade from your 17" Samsung CRT but you're the user. If you do decide to sell it, you probably can get $300-400 for it and you can buy the monitor of your choice or simply save that money. Ulitmately it's your money and you need to decide what's best for you. We can only give you our opinion. Good luck.

 

[DGath]

Here is my system....
Samsung 997DF - $200 - $200

Monarch Centira

Add on XP for ~$100 if you aren't the pirating type, but that should put you at right around $1000, with a fabulous monitor, and a high end budget system that is 100% upgradable in a case that is one of my favs.

IMO, The Semprons are a great deal. Just check out the benchmarks scattered about the net. Especially that 3100+.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: techwanabe

Originally posted by: Naustica
Although I would only buy LCD with DVI, that 19" LCD doesn't look too bad. 16ms is good response time and should be fine for the type of games you like to play. IMO, that LCD will be HUGE upgrade from your 17" Samsung CRT. While it's true that CRT is still the way to go for heavy gamer, you don't really fit that profile. I think LCD would actually better fit you based on the type of games you like to play. Radeon X800SE is perfect card for the 1284x1024 native resolution of that LCD and should easily power all your games at that res.

Naustica,

Thanks for your helpful comments. I have to say LCD's are sexy, but I've been a bit sceptical of them due to the comments that people say about CRT's being best AND the bit about games or other app's not being displayed at native resolutions. LCD's have to interpolate because they have a fixed number of pixels vs the CRT which can adjust the density of pixels with the magnetic harness. If you think the monitor listed in the deal will work good for me, and handle some light 3D gaming, this may work out well for me.

For that price it would be quite difficult to build a system yourself. That's why so many people are buying Dells on good deals. I've built plenty of high-end systems but when my mom and dad were in the market for a computer I had them get a Dell.

As far as the LCD vs CRT debate, there's no such thing as the perfect monitor. It all depends on your situation. CRT's take up more space, use more energy, and generally aren't as crisp in text. LCD's force you to run their native resolution for the best quality, are more prone to dead/stuck pixels, and have a slight lag. You have to decide for yourself what is best for you.

I was using a very nice 22" Compaq P1220 (Mitsubishi Diamondtron tube) CRT and it was great for gaming but text was a bit blurry anything above 1280x960. I upgraded(?) to a Dell 2001FP last week and it's quite impressive. Even at 1600x1200 text is razor sharp but you do see lag compared to a CRT. For instance, if you are on web page and scroll slowly up and down you'll see an image or solid field sort of "pixelate" until the LCD catches up. It's not that noticeable - chances are you'll only see it if you look for it on purpose. It's more obvious in games though. I tried it with Doom3 and if you're moving around it's not too bad but like in a web page if you're not moving and looking around you'll notice the LCD lag compared to a CRT. It's sort of annoying but something you'll have to put up with if you want the benefits of LCD technology.

Good luck no matter how you go!

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: DGath
Here is my system....
Samsung 997DF - $200 - $200

Monarch Centira

Add on XP for ~$100 if you aren't the pirating type, but that should put you at right around $1000, with a fabulous monitor, and a high end budget system that is 100% upgradable in a case that is one of my favs.

IMO, The Semprons are a great deal. Just check out the benchmarks scattered about the net. Especially that 3100+.

You realize that is paied with a 9600SE....his G4ti4200 is faster

 

[techwanabe]

You realize that is paied with a 9600SE....his G4ti4200 is faster

My GF4ti4200 has been fast enough for me. I was talking to the tech at ASUS, and since this is the 4th RMA, he is talking about a newer model which equiv or better - probably the FX series which has been so detested by AT users. I wonder what is considered equiv or better in the FX series? ??

Regarding that Samsung 19" monitor - I bought one last spring at BB, and hauled that beast back and forth to the store 3 or 4 times exchanging it because I kept getting models with dead pixels. (probably holes not punched through on the shadow mask.

This Samsung 753DF is starting to get a bit blurry around the edges, which is why I like the idea of a "whole" system with an LCD monitor.

How is the aspect ratio at 1200x1024? I think that is the native res of the 19" DELL LCD.

 

[techwanabe]

Now I've read some folks think the 19" LCD with .29 dot pitch look blurrier than the 17" with .25. Would it really be better to have the smaller 17" LCD? Those of you with experience looking at them?

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: techwanabe
Now I've read some folks think the 19" LCD with .29 dot pitch look blurrier than the 17" with .25. Would it really be better to have the smaller 17" LCD? Those of you with experience looking at them?

It depends, only way to know for sure is to test them out a bit, you can have a look through CC, BB, or compUSA, if you don't mind fending off rabid salesboys , or ask / search around here. Keep in mind that dot pitch and response time doesn't tell the full tale. Especially with response time, depending how it's measured, lower ms LCDs can evidence more ghosting than ones with higher times. I'll agree that Dell deal doesn't look half bad, though I would still build if I were in your situation.

 

[DGath]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: DGath
Here is my system....
Samsung 997DF - $200 - $200

Monarch Centira

Add on XP for ~$100 if you aren't the pirating type, but that should put you at right around $1000, with a fabulous monitor, and a high end budget system that is 100% upgradable in a case that is one of my favs.

IMO, The Semprons are a great deal. Just check out the benchmarks scattered about the net. Especially that 3100+.

You realize that is paied with a 9600SE....his G4ti4200 is faster

Yeah, I saw the 9600SuckEdition. I spent about 5 minutes looking around for a base system and that looked like a good starting point. Fully customizable though, so if that didn't work for him, he could up it.

And to answer your question techwanabe, it's equivelent is roughly a 5600

 

[techwanabe]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: techwanabe
Now I've read some folks think the 19" LCD with .29 dot pitch look blurrier than the 17" with .25. Would it really be better to have the smaller 17" LCD? Those of you with experience looking at them?

It depends, only way to know for sure is to test them out a bit, you can have a look through CC, BB, or compUSA, if you don't mind fending off rabid salesboys , or ask / search around here. Keep in mind that dot pitch and response time doesn't tell the full tale. Especially with response time, depending how it's measured, lower ms LCDs can evidence more ghosting than ones with higher times. I'll agree that Dell deal doesn't look half bad, though I would still build if I were in your situation.

Looks like it is a moot point now - I check back at Dell and I got a message for the coupon code say it had expired (the one supposedly good until 11pm Monday CST - I guess they were just kidding). They pulled the deal, I won't buy now - too bad Dell . Looks like I'll wait and see if they can tempt me with anything else.

 

[techwanabe]

Now that the Dell deal has been pulled early, there are no immediate prefab systems that look compelling - now what? I might as well get suggestions for "reliable" "proven" parts for a possible Intel Pentium 4 system. Might as well consider something faster than what I have - min 2.8 Ghz, 1 Gb RAM, 80 GB hard drive, Good P/S and case.

If any killer Dell deals come along in the next few weeks, I'll consider those too.

 

[RickH]

If you build this thing and there are ANY PROBLEMS AT ALL you will be hearing about it for the next 20 years. If they give you the money to buy a computer--buy a computer. Don't take a chance.
R

 

[techwanabe]

Originally posted by: RickH
If you build this thing and there are ANY PROBLEMS AT ALL you will be hearing about it for the next 20 years. If they give you the money to buy a computer--buy a computer. Don't take a chance.
R

Well, that is why I was considering the Dell. My folks have had their Dell 450 mhz for probably what, 5 years now and it has been pretty reliable. So they wouldn't fault me for going that way. The speakers went bad but the hardware has been fine. Windows was reloaded when something go a bit whacked software wise.

I have working computers so I can take my sweet time waiting for another hot deal from Dell.