New research (2022) that says $ DOES buy happiness but only if you know how to define happiness

[JEDI]

https://www.pnas.org/doi/epdf/10.1073/pnas.2208661120

Originally, it was thought $ doesn't buy happiness if you reached the basic needs stage of food/clothing/shelter.
Then it was happiness till $75k/yr income for a single person because financial safety net is met.

Now it's:
Once people get past a base level of security where their physical needs are taken care of and they have a financial safety net, “that’s where it gets tricky,” Thakor said. “You have to define happiness.”

Thakor often describes this in terms of “emotional wealth,” which she considers to be the next level of wealth that comes after a person’s physical and financial health. “What I’m referring to is not just clarity about what matters to you, but the ability to act on it, have time to enjoy it, and not feel stressed when you’re there,” Thakor said.

tL;dr:
- With financial health, it’s about getting to a point where the lack of money is not causing stress in your life, which includes being able to handle emergencies.
- With the next stage (emotional wealth), it’s about identifying what makes you happy, and how to find a way to work that into your life.


So i guess if you reached the 'emotional wealth' level and don't know what makes you happy, keep trying different things until you find it since you have the $?

Edit:
For the past few years, i've found a hobby i like doing. I spend many hrs a week doing it.
It's enjoyable but don't think it's the happiness level that the above is talking about.
It's more of just passes the time.

Unfortunately, i've stopped trying different things to reach that holy grail of happiness because i'm content on this hobby.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Well, duh?

I have 99 problems and I'd solve 92 of them if I found $30k in the street.

 

[highland145]

Well, duh?

I have 99 problems and I'd solve 92 of them if I found $30k in the street.

Nope, the drug dealer would kill your family.

Unless that's what you ....nvm

 

[BoomerD]

Nope, the drug dealer would kill your family.

Unless that's what you ....nvm

Hush, dammit...don't be disclosing other people's plans!

 

[repoman0]

Money buys time. Wife and I have like an 80% savings rate and the thought of quitting for good at age 40-45 instead of 60-70 makes me very happy indeed. More money would make me happier and happier because it would make that age grow smaller and smaller.

 

[dullard]

Well, duh?

I have 99 problems and I'd solve 92 of them if I found $30k in the street.

The quote about money not buying happiness is AFTER you found the $30k in the street and solved 92 of your problems. More money AFTER that point is much harder to use to buy happiness.

It was never intended to address people where $30k could help solve problems.

Think Elon Musk and Donald Trump. How happy are those miserable people?

 

[biostud]

I think why countries like Finland and Denmark score high in the happiness index, is that we really don’t (on average) has so much to worry about.

Low violence, good taxpayed education and health care, personal freedom and social security.

But being safe and few worries is not the same as happiness.

 

[Jon-T]

They also say that money can't buy love

But it can rent a good substitute foe 20 minutes

 

[pmv]

The quote about money not buying happiness is AFTER you found the $30k in the street and solved 92 of your problems. More money AFTER that point is much harder to use to buy happiness.

It was never intended to address people where $30k could help solve problems.

Think Elon Musk and Donald Trump. How happy are those miserable people?

A huge proportion of the sources of unhappiness can be solved with sufficient quantities of cash. Maybe not quite all of them, but a lot more than people often claim.

Fair point about Trump, though. But even there, maybe one could trace the roots of his obvious unhappiness back to a time when _someone_ didn't have the resources they needed at the time, though that someone probably wasn't Donald himself.

 

[Muse]

Jay Leno (who I like never watched) said (I'm told) that "money won't make you happy, but it can help."

That seems reasonable to me. It's contextual, obviously.

Money is fucked up and great at the same time. Parse that!

 

[Kaido]

 

[Kaido]

Once people get past a base level of security where their physical needs are taken care of and they have a financial safety net, “that’s where it gets tricky,” Thakor said. “You have to define happiness.”

I think that's really the key right there: it's hard to be happy if you don't define what happiness is, work to achieve it, and then work to maintain it. Defining happiness requires thinking, which most people hate doing. I think it's important to define whether you want to be merely content or actually happy, because happiness involves definition, commitment, and effort. Anyone can be content just to coast through life, but in my experience, happiness requires a bit more work to achieve & maintain! So the question is really: how happy do you want to be, and are you interested in the long-term commitment required to get there & stay there?

For example, I don't feel very happy when I don't get enough sleep, or when I'm not well-fed, or when I skip exercise, because then my body starts hammering on me, so part of my happiness picture includes maintaining my health, which is something I wasn't too interested in growing up. Psychologically, I maintain a "motivation cradle" concept, which consists of (1) a hot project I'm immersed in right now, and (2) a hot project waiting in the wings that I'm looking forward to working on. That way I feel good physically & also am plugged in mentally to exciting things, rather than just being tired & not having any cool stuff that I'm actively involved in.

I'm not great at it, but I'm a lot happier now than I was growing up because I know more of the rules & have defined more of what I want. It ain't easy!

 

[JEDI]

I think that's really the key right there: it's hard to be happy if you don't define what happiness is, work to achieve it, and then work to maintain it. Defining happiness requires thinking, which most people hate doing. I think it's important to define whether you want to be merely content or actually happy, because happiness involves definition, commitment, and effort. Anyone can be content just to coast through life, but in my experience, happiness requires a bit more work to achieve & maintain! So the question is really: how happy do you want to be, and are you interested in the long-term commitment required to get there & stay there?

For example, I don't feel very happy when I don't get enough sleep, or when I'm not well-fed, or when I skip exercise, because then my body starts hammering on me, so part of my happiness picture includes maintaining my health, which is something I wasn't too interested in growing up. Psychologically, I maintain a "motivation cradle" concept, which consists of (1) a hot project I'm immersed in right now, and (2) a hot project waiting in the wings that I'm looking forward to working on. That way I feel good physically & also am plugged in mentally to exciting things, rather than just being tired & not having any cool stuff that I'm actively involved in.

I'm not great at it, but I'm a lot happier now than I was growing up because I know more of the rules & have defined more of what I want. It ain't easy!

So you're saying 3rd stage of happiness:
- coast by on being content (like with my hobby)
- or work to not only define and achieve true happiness but also work on maintaining it too

I think I'll stick with being content since I'm there already

 

[nakedfrog]

So you're saying 3rd stage of happiness:
- coast by on being content (like with my hobby)
- or work to not only define and achieve true happiness but also work on maintaining it too

I think I'll stick with being content since I'm there already

The thing is that maintaining it doesn't necessarily feel like "work" either, at least for my goals. The ends that I'm working towards are things I enjoy, so putting in the effort necessary to achieve those ends involves doing something I already enjoy, but I do need to invest more than a "casual" level of effort in order to make progress.

 

[Kaido]

So you're saying 3rd stage of happiness:
- coast by on being content (like with my hobby)
- or work to not only define and achieve true happiness but also work on maintaining it too

I think I'll stick with being content since I'm there already

There's not really a wrong answer; it's all about personal choices. But it's hard to be happy if you don't proactively define what happiness means to you, work to achieve it, and then work to maintain it. In your case, your hobby embodies you proactively being happy, because you are (1) choosing to do something, and (2) are actively pursuing it. A lot of people I know just go to work, come home, drink, watch TV, and pass out. If that's all you want from life & are content with that, more power to you! But what YOU are doing is proactively adding good things to your life, by choice, and by effort! You could just sit around & surf the net all day & NOT do a hobby, but you're actively engaged in it!

I've been on both sides of the pendulum: I had low energy growing up & was a major couch potato. Then I kinda became a workaholic & worked like 70 hours a week for many years. I've tried to find balance in recent years. My long-term take is that we get to choose to be as happy as we are willing to allow ourselves to be, regardless of our present circumstances. This involves a lot of personal responsibility because it means finding out how happiness works, defining what happiness means to us personally, and engaging consistently in the pursuit & maintenance of happiness. Basically, being content is free, but happiness isn't!

 

[A///]

I always saw the money doesn't buy happiness quote referring to internal health or mental health. there's only so much you can do for your insiders if you're past a point of no return or if you're mentally unstable or in a bad place mentally. you can get help but idk the success rate on that. if you're fine body wise and healthy mentally then money will certainly buy you happiness and anyone saying it doesn't is lying to themselves or have only been exposed to a certain quality of life that they cannot comprehend what's out there.

 

[Kaido]

I always saw the money doesn't buy happiness quote referring to internal health or mental health. there's only so much you can do for your insiders if you're past a point of no return or if you're mentally unstable or in a bad place mentally. you can get help but idk the success rate on that. if you're fine body wise and healthy mentally then money will certainly buy you happiness and anyone saying it doesn't is lying to themselves or have only been exposed to a certain quality of life that they cannot comprehend what's out there.

I went through a rabbit hole of AskReddit threads on wealth one time...for both people who were wealthy or became wealthy, the ultimate takeaway was "money doesn't make you happy, but it does make being unhappy less miserable". I think it's a bit complicated because of the hierarchy of needs...like, it's hard not to be stressed out all the time if you're starving, if you're stressed about paying bills, etc.

Back in college, I had to work 3 jobs at one point to pay for school. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD yet & was having a REALLY hard time with my studies...that experience of having to work & do school during ALL of my waking hours & not getting paid squat REALLY motivated me to finish school so that I could get a reliable long-term job. Fortunately, 15+ years later, I'm in a far better position in life, but it also gave me a lot of appreciation for having a stable job with a decent salary that will be relevant in the future! And yeah, money DOES buy a LOT of short-term happiness, hahaha! Just not so much on the long-term happiness aspect.

The stuff that ultra-rich people do is pretty bonkers. I have some friends who are live-in yacht chefs who service the exorbitantly wealthy...people who have no problem chartering a fully-staffed boat for as long as they want to have an oceanic vacation for, all for the paltry fee of a million dollars a week in rental & service fees. Like imagine having a bad day & then just bugging out for a couple weeks on the water for $2 million dollars without blinking an eye. It's a whole different world out there when you have the bucks!!

 

[pmv]

I always saw the money doesn't buy happiness quote referring to internal health or mental health. there's only so much you can do for your insiders if you're past a point of no return or if you're mentally unstable or in a bad place mentally. you can get help but idk the success rate on that. if you're fine body wise and healthy mentally then money will certainly buy you happiness and anyone saying it doesn't is lying to themselves or have only been exposed to a certain quality of life that they cannot comprehend what's out there.

It can help a lot on physical health (even when you have "socialised health care" - the NHS tends to be run on the basis of providing healthcare to everyone as cheaply as possible, so if you were seriously rich there are things you could get access to that are not necessarily available on the NHS - which is particularly struggling at the moment anyway).

Money can help to a degree with mental health - a huge number of 'mental health' issues are really a consequence of living conditions or work-stress. But it can't fix every mental issue, I'm sure. But even those it can't fix, it maybe might have prevented developing in the first place if someone's parents or grandparents had had more of the stuff.

 

[A///]

It can help a lot on physical health (even when you have "socialised health care" - the NHS tends to be run on the basis of providing healthcare to everyone as cheaply as possible, so if you were seriously rich there are things you could get access to that are not necessarily available on the NHS - which is particularly struggling at the moment anyway).

Money can help to a degree with mental health - a huge number of 'mental health' issues are really a consequence of living conditions or work-stress. But it can't fix every mental issue, I'm sure. But even those it can't fix, it maybe might have prevented developing in the first place if someone's parents or grandparents had had more of the stuff.

we're talking about different things here. if someone has 6 slipped discs and becomes a multi millionaire they're not going to become immediately healthier with invasive surgery. the time to heat willl be proportionately long than if they had the money and could seek the medical care before their first slipped disc or never had the issue in the first place because they didn't need to work. someone who's had to have limbs removed due to diabetes getting worse and worse due to lack of money and medical care won't regrow.

As an expat I know how the NHS works. It's wildly different than what I remember it being. If I still lived in the uk today I'd seek private care before relying on the nhs.

 

[A///]

I went through a rabbit hole of AskReddit threads on wealth one time...for both people who were wealthy or became wealthy, the ultimate takeaway was "money doesn't make you happy, but it does make being unhappy less miserable". I think it's a bit complicated because of the hierarchy of needs...like, it's hard not to be stressed out all the time if you're starving, if you're stressed about paying bills, etc.

Back in college, I had to work 3 jobs at one point to pay for school. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD yet & was having a REALLY hard time with my studies...that experience of having to work & do school during ALL of my waking hours & not getting paid squat REALLY motivated me to finish school so that I could get a reliable long-term job. Fortunately, 15+ years later, I'm in a far better position in life, but it also gave me a lot of appreciation for having a stable job with a decent salary that will be relevant in the future! And yeah, money DOES buy a LOT of short-term happiness, hahaha! Just not so much on the long-term happiness aspect.

The stuff that ultra-rich people do is pretty bonkers. I have some friends who are live-in yacht chefs who service the exorbitantly wealthy...people who have no problem chartering a fully-staffed boat for as long as they want to have an oceanic vacation for, all for the paltry fee of a million dollars a week in rental & service fees. Like imagine having a bad day & then just bugging out for a couple weeks on the water for $2 million dollars without blinking an eye. It's a whole different world out there when you have the bucks!!


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your definition of short term vs long term happiness is subjective.I don't see why you would use reddit as a source. afaik that site is mostly used by young people who've barely gotten their asses out of university.

 

[Kaido]

your definition of short term vs long term happiness is subjective.I don't see why you would use reddit as a source.

Oh, it's 100% subjective! This is simply my interpretation of what I've found to work for me over time:

* It's really easy for me to coast & merely be content. To me, being content is a trap that prevents me from being happy; being content is simply not as fulfilling as staying actively engaged in being happy.
* Being happy, for me, takes effort. I typically don't just magically "feel happy" for no reason.
* Physically, I don't do well when I'm short on sleep, have poor nutritional intake, don't exercise, and am stressed out.
* Mentally & emotionally, I need to be plugged into ongoing education, fun projects, etc. I get pretty apathetic when I'm not active, not contributing, and am bored by choice.

I see my body as a chemical factory. Sleep releases AGH, stress management manages cortisol release, food releases dopamine, exercise releases endorphins. If I want those neurotransmitters & hormones in my body, then I have to bother to pull those levers to release them into my bloodstream on a daily basis. I run on the low-energy side of the fence, so I tend to have to be pretty serious about doing it every day to stay in that feel-good groove.

I eventually just hit a point where I wasn't content being content anymore; I wanted to actually feel happy & feel good on a regular basis. As far as reddit goes, there was actually an action-triggering quote for me, which went something like, "I don't want to be a bystander in my own life anymore." That really struck home with me because dealing with poor health & low energy is a barrier, but not a verdict. I'm not perfect at it by any means, but I've got a much better idea of how happiness works for me & what I want from life as I've given it more thought & effort over the years, and have made an internal commitment to working to stay within that groove, rather than just coasting (I say that as I'm posting on ATOT LOL).

 

[nakedfrog]

your definition of short term vs long term happiness is subjective.I don't see why you would use reddit as a source. afaik that site is mostly used by young people who've barely gotten their asses out of university.

I've encountered quite a few folks in their 30s-70s there, it really depends where you're looking.

 

[A///]

I've encountered quite a few folks in their 30s-70s there, it really depends where you're looking.

im sure there are. I don't use the web site much myself because it's difficult for me to figure out and use.

 

[Kaido]

I've encountered quite a few folks in their 30s-70s there, it really depends where you're looking.

There's the typical echochambery stuff, but there's also a lot of really fantastic niches with some really excellent people there...I've learned a lot over the years from reddit!

 

[nakedfrog]

im sure there are. I don't use the web site much myself because it's difficult for me to figure out and use.

Yeah, it's a bit shit, but ATOT isn't the hoppin' hive of activity it once was, and there's an endless stream of content over there. Obviously Sturgeon's law is still in play and 80% (being generous here) of it is crap.

There's the typical echochambery stuff, but there's also a lot of really fantastic niches with some really excellent people there...I've learned a lot over the years from reddit!

I tend to have a lot of niche interests, so it's definitely good for that. Even then... still not a lot of activity in the irish bouzouki subreddit, LOL. But I'm participating in ukulele challenges now, so that's fun.