New Samsung Magician v4.9.6 pulled...?

nofixedaddress

Junior Member
Apr 26, 2016
2
0
0
I downloaded and installed new version 4.9.6 of Samsung Magician from http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/global/html/support/downloads.html several hours ago across my Samsung SSD home PCs, but I now notice the site has been changed back to v4.9.5... apart from a screenshot as evidence @ http://imgur.com/Qq09dcp all I could find on google was links to non-English news sites about it such as http://www.chip.de/downloads/Samsung-SSD-Magician-Tool_45696908.htm and http://winfuture.de/downloadvorschalt,3405.html which indicate I just happened to have a look on the Samsung site at the right time, it wasn't up long. Did anyone else install it? Has it been pulled for a reason?
 
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nofixedaddress

Junior Member
Apr 26, 2016
2
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skipsneeky2

Diamond Member
May 21, 2011
5,035
1
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I just ordered a 850 Pro,is this software really that essential to have?Would the ssd run any worst or better?Till i transfer it to my wifes rig some time later or i get a Sata 3 pci e card i will be stuck at Sata 2 speeds.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
When it works it works pretty well but its not required by any means unless your running an OS which doesn't support TRIM.

I've owned multiple Samsung 830's, 840's & 850's so far and the only issue I've had with Magician was that it for some reason still fails to recognize my 840 Pro.
 

JimmiG

Platinum Member
Feb 24, 2005
2,024
112
106
There's the Rapid mode that can sometimes improve performance, mostly in synthetic benchmarks. Other than that, the software is of little use. There are a few outdated "tweaks" that supposedly increase the lifetime of the SSD but they don't really apply any more.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
I just ordered a 850 Pro,is this software really that essential to have?Would the ssd run any worst or better?Till i transfer it to my wifes rig some time later or i get a Sata 3 pci e card i will be stuck at Sata 2 speeds.

That's a worthwhile question, and I have an answer -- if only an opinion.

I have an 840-Pro boot-system disk for my main-use system, and installed Magician so I could take advantage of RAPID.

But we buy various makes and SSD models. Magician won't cache those drives, even as it will perform a benchmark on them.

Crucial also has its utility, but I forgot it's name. And I just bought an ADATA 480GB SSD which comes with a program called SSD-Tool with an interface of so much eye-candy that you'd want to wear Ray-Bans. I had remarked that the "OS optimization" feature of SSD-Tool is so aggressive that you'd rather make the tweaks to virtual-memory, Prefetch, SuperFetch and indexing by doing it manually -- not a big problem.

If you had three SSDs in the same system of different manufacture, you could install all the bundled software for each, so that you have something that reports the number of TB writes for each one. But you can't cache all the SSDs unless the bundled software offers caching, and you'd have three different operable caches -- a proposition that seems sloppy or potentially troublesome.

So I don't use RAPID. I wouldn't even use the Marvell feature that works with certain controller chip models. Even Intel IRST SSD-caching of hard-disks is proprietary, but it doesn't have to be.

I'm really happy with the lifetime license for Primocache. Much more versatile than RAPID, allows for L1 caches for SSD partitions and volumes, and L1+L2 caches for HDDs if you want to dedicate all or part of an SSD to cache an HDD and then cache the whole enchilada to RAM.

The latest version now allows for the L1 cache to be written to an SSD boot-drive, so that it's restored at boot-time. Figure if you shrunk or eliminated your swap/paging file, and your L1 cache is defined to be about 3GB, that's a feasible trade-off. Unlike Windows Virtual Memory, Primo is not going to write anything of the L1 to disk for "persistence" until you restart or shut down your system.

One more in my long diatribe here. You mentioned that you are using the 850 on an SATA-II controller plug? The caching would help with that considerably. I have a Crucial MX100 500GB in a 9-year-old C2D executive notebook with an SATA-II controller. The lappie is fitted with 8GB of RAM, and I can use 3GB -- even more -- to cache the SSD.

There have been many criticisms of the caching solution, but caching has been around as a technique throughout the evolution of the technology. I cannot quantify how much it helps, but with all my experience with it -- it doesn't hurt anything.
 
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nanaki333

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2002
3,772
13
81
There's the Rapid mode that can sometimes improve performance, mostly in synthetic benchmarks. Other than that, the software is of little use. There are a few outdated "tweaks" that supposedly increase the lifetime of the SSD but they don't really apply any more.

i'm not sure if RAPID mode does deferred writing to SSD, but if so, it is 100% useful for prolonging the life of your SSD.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
i'm not sure if RAPID mode does deferred writing to SSD, but if so, it is 100% useful for prolonging the life of your SSD.

I think it does, but it doesn't matter to me: PrimoCache let's you do deferred writes and tweak the setting.

However, from the Anvil Benchmark and for a boot-system disk, the extra safety for caching without deferred writes mostly results in a lower write-rate for 4K random-writes, in my case, about 60MB/s.

I still haven't decided for sure to abjure using it for boot-system SSDs. It could be like that old Lou Reed song -- "Take a Walk on the Wild Side." I DID try it for a few days with no mishaps.

The thing to remember, though, is that you want a rock-solid hardware configuration with perfectly reliable RAM, no conflicts, no crashes for insufficiently-tweaked overclock settings and so on -- BEFORE you do something like that. You'd want your UPS to be working perfectly in event of a power-outage. In fact, you'd want a perfectly-tuned system to use RAPID-type caching without deferred writes.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
Just a note on new observations about the latest Primocache version 2.2.0.

As I may have mentioned, Romex added a feature that wasn't there in the earlier versions: "Prefetch last cache," with two sub-options -- "Start at Windows Boot," and "Lock Cache Content."

This makes RAM-caching of an SSD more similar to a persistent cache storage available at boot time. It simply loads the last previous cache content before shutdown/restart back into RAM. It has a noticeable effect at startup.
 

Coup27

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2010
2,140
3
81
Samsung don't publish SSD firmwares in ISO format on their global downloads page anymore so unless they're hidden away somewhere else Magician is the only way to do firmware updates.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
I just ordered a 850 Pro,is this software really that essential to have?Would the ssd run any worst or better?Till i transfer it to my wifes rig some time later or i get a Sata 3 pci e card i will be stuck at Sata 2 speeds.
literally every single one of the optimization suggestions made by samsung magician is wrong. note that this is not just my personal opinion, rather it is microsoft's. every one of those optimization suggestions is samsung saying "we know better than Microsoft on how to make a disk operating system".
No they don't, MS made all the optimizations needed for SSDs, windows 7+ does not treat SSDs the same as HDDs.

Use it only for:
1. trim on a non-trim os. you shouldn't use such an OS anyways (samsung falsely claims only win 8+ do trim, its actually 7+. also open source os like linux.). So basically, if you are still running winxp or vista, use magician for trim
2. secure erasing your drive before selling it
3. updating firmware. (run it once, upgrade firmware if available, and then uninstall.)
 
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Coup27

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2010
2,140
3
81
3. updating firmware. (run it once, upgrade firmware if available, and then uninstall.)
Can you enable the hardware encryption without Magician? I forgot that one, if not, then you need Magician for that as well.

I also wouldn't uninstall it. They've finally added an easy "remove from startup" if you right click the icon so there's no harm in it being installed for the uses it does have.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,785
1,500
126
Can you enable the hardware encryption without Magician? I forgot that one, if not, then you need Magician for that as well.

I also wouldn't uninstall it. They've finally added an easy "remove from startup" if you right click the icon so there's no harm in it being installed for the uses it does have.

I wouldn't uninstall it, even for using a different general-purpose RAM and SSD-caching program. Just don't enable RAPID if you'd already set up the general-purpose program to do the RAM-caching. Even so, the programs don't conflict with each other if you only use RAPID for the Sammy drive and avoid any RAM-caching for the Sammy Drive with the general-purpose program.

I'd mentioned the "SSD Tool" program that comes with the ADATA drive, similar to Magician and more aggressive with "auto-optimization" features. Whatever anyone says about Win7 or later handling SSDs without further intervention, I've seen several "How-To" guides from various sources about tweaks that can be made manually through Windows features: limiting the Virtual-Memory/Swap-file to a size that still allows for VSS shadow-copying and other necessary Windows features; elimination of drive and file indexing; disabling Prefetch and SuperFetch. All of those tweaks have had no negative effect on performance and reduce disk-writes per the VM-swapfile usage.

The benchies I get are just as high or higher for the tweaks. And if you plan on enabling "Prefetch last cache" to start at Windows bootup with a program like PrimoCache 2.2.0, you will still have additional disk-writes for making a RAM-cache persistent between boot-sessions. So reducing the size of the swap-file should mitigate all of that, if you don't use 16GB for the caching. My default swapfile had been 16GB as the windows-managed default due to the amount of RAM; it is now only 2GB at most, and the caching program is configured to use at most 4GB. And I suspect my PrimoCache program only writes the amount of data used in the cache, so the one-time write at system-restart/shutdown would be <= 4GB.

Personally, I've never bothered with the disk encryption features. I would think the only risk I'd face for that choice might arise if somebody stole my system and it left my physical possession "unwiped." Tell me if I'm wrong.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Can you enable the hardware encryption without Magician? I forgot that one, if not, then you need Magician for that as well.
Yes, the hardware encryption is set up via the bios and requires no software.

I also wouldn't uninstall it. They've finally added an easy "remove from startup" if you right click the icon so there's no harm in it being installed for the uses it does have.
that is acceptable too.
personally I just prefer it gone, if i need it i can install it in 15 seconds
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,450
10,119
126
Samsung don't publish SSD firmwares in ISO format on their global downloads page anymore so unless they're hidden away somewhere else Magician is the only way to do firmware updates.

Samsung's retribution to Linux users, for the hullaballo of a report of "confirmed" firmware bugs RE:TRIM, except that it turned out to be a Linux kernel bug after all (IIRC).

http://techreport.com/news/28473/some-samsung-ssds-may-suffer-from-a-buggy-trim-implementation

http://techreport.com/news/28724/samsung-docs-detail-linux-trim-bug-and-fix
 
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Soulkeeper

Diamond Member
Nov 23, 2001
6,713
142
106
They are still blacklisted in the kernel due to the trim issues
https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/k...c?id=9a9324d3969678d44b330e1230ad2c8ae67acf81

/* devices that don't properly handle queued TRIM commands */

This kinda thing is common for lots of hardware, always need to add work arounds for hardware or firmware issues. Makes me wonder if it is fixed now, the blacklist could be a just incase for the older drives people might have.

Just manually trimmed my new 850pro and it worked, so I dunno.
 
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