New System build

[lost0822]

Ok first build coming up, I?ve been itching to do this for a while and have a plan together but want some advice on the parts from you guys. First off let me say that I can?t wait to build cause, I have the money now and getting some bonus (work) money soon, plus my wife and I are trying to get pregnant and I know that if I wait till dec. or jan. she probably (hopefully) will be pregnant by then and will get pissed if I spend a bunch of money on a system then?.trust me if I order now before she gets pregnant it will be much easier for me. Here?s what I got together.

Case:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-144&depa=0

PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-922&depa=0

CPU:
http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=120843

Mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-468&depa=0

RAM:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-480&depa=0

Video Card:
I already own a eVGA 6800GT

DVD RW:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=27-152-023&depa=0

DVD Rom:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=27-131-119&depa=0

Floppy:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=21-103-116&depa=0

Thermal Paste:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=35-100-008&depa=0

I also already have a sound card, keyboard, mouse and monitor.
First is there anything I am missing, like I said this will be my first build so if you need to suggest something and embarrass me please do! I mostly game but do very light home movie editing.

Also should I possibly just go with a 3400+ since I already have a 6800GT? Meaning is it worth it for me to get the 939 socket or not since I will not take advantage of PCI-E any time in the near future because of my new 6800GT. Is the 3500 that much faster or will it be good for me to get for future upgrading of my cpu? I don?t plan on overclocking right away since that would be new to me as well, but would like to experiment with it in the future. Thanks for any suggestions, please help me in any way you think you can.

 

[Gurck]

Looks pretty nice, only things that jump out at me are that a lot of ATers have had problems with MSI mainboards and with Lite-On DVD drives. On the Lite-On DVD-rom - I just sent one back to newegg for exchange because it was loud, scratched my CDs, was only recognized by windows half the time, and when recognized only recognized if a CD was in it half the time. Oh, and if you're looking at OCing, get at least pc3500 ram.

 

[sisooktom]

I wouldn't bother with 939. If you upgrade in the future you will almost certainly want a new board to go with your new CPU. The 3400+ should be fine. The rest looks good.

 

[lost0822]

Originally posted by: Gurck
Looks pretty nice, only things that jump out at me are that a lot of ATers have had problems with MSI mainboards and with Lite-On DVD drives. On the Lite-On DVD-rom - I just sent one back to newegg for exchange because it was loud, scratched my CDs, was only recognized by windows half the time, and when recognized only recognized if a CD was in it half the time. Oh, and if you're looking at OCing, get at least pc3500 ram.

what mobo would you suggest?

 

[Gurck]

Not familiar with particular models, but as far as brand name I prefer Asus. A lot of ATers have had good experiences with, and would likely recommend, Asus, Abit, and DFI.

 

[RussianSensation]

This looks like a real good system. However after carefully analyzing this build, it seems that some thigns can be changed. Yeah sure anandtech chooses msi platinum mobo as the best mobo, but do you need the PLatinum edition? Half the features it has you wont even need or ever use.

I wouldnt go socket 939 either because it is too expensive and 3400+ is just as fast as the 3500+ processor. 550 watt power supply is MAJOR OVERKILL for that system. Why do you need 12 grams of thermal paste? That case is way too expensive for what it offers. And if you spending so much on all the components why go with a slow 8x dvd writer and not 12 or 16x versions? Socket 939 doesnt support PCIe so basically anyone who is buying it now is either looking to upgrade the processor later, wants to get 3% extra speed from dual channel (for $100 extra for 3500+ vs 3400+).

Here is how you can save money and get a system just as fast:

A64 3400+ @ 2.4ghz (newcastle core) - $284 - more mhz benefits gaming and office apps more in my opinion than 1mb cache (except doom 3) => possibly implies potential for more overclocking headroom since the chip is clocked higher in the beginning. Even if this processor's rating is 3400+, it has 200mhz more than the "clawhammer" A64 3400+ with 1mb cache. See dual channel for A64 is supposed to add 100+ in speed rating. Since A64 3500+ is 2.2ghz 512kb cache, and this one is @2.4 or 9% faster in clock speed, this should MORE than make up for the dual channel loss, and I believe this one should be faster.

Chaintech VNF3-250 - $75 - this has AGP/PCI lock, same nforce 3 250 chipset, but lacks firewire and gigabit lan that your mobo has (probably 2 features you wont use or nothing that 100mbps lan and usb 2.0 cant substitute). This overclocks to 275FSB, less than MSI, but I doubt you'll get to top either board out so this is irrelevant. Review Besides MSI is a type of company that tends to get good reviews, but once people buy them, they get a lot of problems with their motherboards and generally people stay away from them.

Corsair Value 512mb PC3200 C2.5 - $79 x 2. I figure for $2 get CAS 2.5 latency vs. 3.0 for the one you wanna get. For $2, I couldnt resist even if latency doesnt affect A64 as much as P4. Run this at 2.5-3-3-10 for optimal performance.

I'd personally step up to 12 or 16x dvd writer form Pioneer, Liteon or NEC. Do you need 2 DVD drives? Unless you intend to copy CD/DVD to CD/DVD then you can save $$$ right there.

I'd get rid of the floppy since no one uses it. It is cheaper to burn a CD if you ever need to transfer data or more versatile to buy a USB key. Get smaller thermal paste container because you'll probably only use it 1-10 times tops and the smaller one is enough.

For power supply, I'd consider Antec 430, 480 or Tagan 480. Also enermax 470 or something along those lines has 2 separate 12 V rails, so for the Nvidia card that might be the best choice. No need to spend $110 on the 550W antec (might as well get PC Power and Cooling if you are gonna spend $100+)

If you are gonna spend $100+ on a case, i'd probably look at Thermaltake Tsunami like this One (they come with window and without (cheaper). Also coolermaster wavemaster or something by them, lian-li is good too. For 80-90 i'd consider Kingwin 424 model. But case is a personal preference (I just dont like the antec one).

If you are not going to overclock extensively just get the cpu with retail cooler, otherwise without going overboard, you can get SLK-948 for $30 with a $10 panaflo 92mm fan, or maybe Zalman CNPS7000-ALCU for $26 or the Copper version for $3 more. Also where the Zalman is sold cheap, you can pick up Thermal paste for only $6.

Also if you do intend to overclock, I'd probably get A64 3000+ 2.0ghz for $160 as it is a better value and should overclock to 2.4ghz. And if you are upgrading from a 2.8 P4 in your signature, then I wouldnt upgrade anything and just overclock that processor.

Sorry for the long reply.

 

[lost0822]

awesome reply, that's the kind of info i'm looking for.
First that computer i have is a gateway, which run good an works fine, but i can't overclock with the motherboard i have and the case is a mini which sucks.

I am considering the 3400 (but i need the heatsink and fan, which the one you suggested does not have) as well, i guess i could upgrade to a 3700 if i wanted to right?
Is is really not worth getting the 939 for future upgrades since the 3700 is the last 754 socket made? or am i totally wrong here? I also have a firewire card that i can take out of my gateway that i put in there.

I have an antec 430 true power that i put in my gateway, i guess i could take that out and put the old one back in.

I'm also considering the faster dvd drives and i do copy dvd to dvd.

I like the antec case and am set on buying it.
I want the floppy it's only 10 bucks.
thanks for the thermal paste advice.

still deciding on the ram as well, but like i said that's for the great advice...anyone else?

 

[lost0822]

bump, anyone else?

 

[mechBgon]

I wouldn't get the TrueControl, I'd get the regular TruePower. That bay-mounted thing looks tacky and I wouldn't want to tamper with the PSU's output anyway.

Also, if you don't have a memory-card reader, there's a nice 3.5" black one, Inwin i530B, with front-audio ports, a USB 2.0 port and a Firewire port on it. That could be a nice little trinket for $21. And if you'd like to get a cable/DSL router to be your perimeter firewall (if you don't already have one), then they have a good price on the Netgear RP614, $30 after MIR now.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: lost0822

I am considering the 3400 (but i need the heatsink and fan, which the one you suggested does not have) as well, i guess i could upgrade to a 3700 if i wanted to right?

Actually above I suggested the Zalman CNPS7000 and Thermalright SLK948 and posted links for them. They are outstanding cooling solutions without going too overboard and both will be quiet. Since the OEM processor is $283 and the Retail version (with fan) is $295, the price difference is $12. I figure since the Zalman is $26, if you are thinking of retail sink then spending extra $14 on a MUCH better and quieter cooler is well worth it. Yes you can upgrade to a 3700+ later. But 3700+ has 1mb cache and runs at 2.4ghz. So look at it, it wont be much of an upgrade since the 3400+ I linked for you already runs at 2.4 but only has 512kb cache. Cache shouldn't make 300+ change in the speed rating that is why the 3400+ Newcastle at 2.4ghz is underrated in my opinion.

Is is really not worth getting the 939 for future upgrades since the 3700 is the last 754 socket made? or am i totally wrong here? I also have a firewire card that i can take out of my gateway that i put in there.

Well that is a very good question. I guess it all depends on how often you upgrade. I tend to upgrade my cpu and the motherboard together since I upgrade every 1 or 2 years making the current motherboard often old and not supporting the new FSB (ie. 800 for p4, now they are moving to 1066, etc)

One of the most important changes to follow is the addition of PCIe lane to CK8 ("nforce 4") chipset. These motherboards should be available in 1 month or so. Chances are that if you intend to keep upgrading your system, then soon you might need a PCIe graphics card and even if you get socket 939 NOW, it simply doesnt support this format. So I am thinking let socket 754 and your 6800GT carry you for 1-2 years happily and then update with a new graphics card (PCIe format) as well, which will require you a new motherboard regardless whether you get socket 754 or 939 now (so why waste extra $$$ on SAME performance for 939????)

I have an antec 430 true power that i put in my gateway, i guess i could take that out and put the old one back in.

That would be plenty for your new system. If you intend to use the gateway, make sure that the power supply for the P4 system is decent enough to support it though. Besides, I am all for replacing parts if they are insufficient, but why buy a new power supply if the 430 is enough? If you have problems with the 430, THEN you can consider buying a stronger PSU.

I'm also considering the faster dvd drives and i do copy dvd to dvd.
I like the antec case and am set on buying it.
I want the floppy it's only 10 bucks.

Can't argue with your opinion

About the DVD-Writer:

Here is the review for a 16 x Pioneer Drive - Link
However, I'd probably consider NEC 16 x drive though because it has 48x24x48 CD-Writer speed instead of 32x24x40 of the Pioneer drive. The burning speed difference between 16x and 12x dvd-writers is only 30 seconds or so though (7 min vs. 6:30) but then again no 16x media is yet available so it is difficult to say if this will improve.

still deciding on the ram as well, but like i said that's for the great advice...anyone else?

This is a tough question because better ram is only worth spending money on if you intend to overclock. Good quality PC4000/4400 ram should run you about $250-300 for 1 gig; WAY MORE than the $150 you have set for yourself, now. The question is, is it worth it? In my opinion, NO. Sure running A64 in Synchronous mode is going to give you a boost in performance but you can also use ratios when you overclock, so PC3200 shouldn't stop you from overclocking. The thing is spending $150 later on a processor or even gpu upgrade will probably serve you better as an overall speed increase. But if you do decide to consider awesome RAM, then look into this review: =F-A-S-T= DDR Memory: 2-2-2 Roars on the Scene and this one: Geil PC3200 Ultra X I recall both reviews do recommend a certain type of ram better for A64 system (OCZ? or Crucial Ballistix based on Micron chips, so read into that a bit more).

If you still want overclocking room, don't want to spend TOO much and want good timings, I'd probably consider Kingmax Hardcore PC4000 512mb = $103 a piece 2 sticks of this stuff should be roughly $50 more than your corsair value setup but they overclock great and have more than enough room for you and tight timings at 433 DDR => Review

Here is a little example:

If you do end up getting 3400+ @ 2.4, it will be 12 multiplier x 200. So since most A64 top out at 2.6-2.7 on air cooling, most likely this ram will be sufficient enough to run at tight timings without breaking the bank. Of course remember that you can always enable lower ratios on the A64 processor since they are unlocked and run your cpu at ratios 6-10 to help increase your memory bandwidth and "A64 FSB." In this case the memories I linked and the Kingmax should be favourable over the usual PC3200 stuff (ie. running 3400+ stock 2.4 @ 9 x 266FSB => still produces 2.4 clock speed but the system will be faster. You'll need PC4300 capable (or overclockable ram) to achieve this example.)

Hope this helps.

 

[lost0822]

again awesome thanks a lot!