New to SSDs? Read this first before asking questions! (UPDATED 07/17/2011)

[Zap]

I'm fairly certain the Intel x25-m g2 firmware update does not cause loss of data.

NONE of the intel firmware updates (G1 either) caused loss of data. And only the early indilinx updates caused dataloss

DOH! I stand corrected.

Relax. All modern Mobos support AHCI. Yes all SSDs physically have SATA interfaces

I added a section Can your computer support an SSD a few days ago.

I like that "Relax." I'm gonna add "Don't Panic" to the OP as an homage to Douglas Adams.

 

[Anubis]

do issues still exist when ghosting a windows install to a new SSD? i remember reading horror stories about it not working correctly

 

[Zap]

Cloning a disc image works with latest software. What is not known at this time is how the software deals with alignment.

I suspect that if the partition was aligned to begin with, alignment will be preserved.

I do not know for sure.

As for cloning from a hard drive to an SSD, I think it ends up not aligned.

 

[Anubis]

As for cloning from a hard drive to an SSD, I think it ends up not aligned.

Thats bad right? i really don't wanna do a full install again which is why i was asking

 

[Zap]

Kind of bad. Improper alignment results in extra work for the drive, which reduces lifespan and performance. Still, there are those who use SSDs that way, and are still happy with them.

 

[rsuren]

Hello guys,
when is the new intel x-25 g3 (Postville Refresh) is getting released(at least a time frame) ??, is there any new news ??

thank you,
suren

 

[taltamir]

Hello guys,
when is the new intel x-25 g3 (Postville Refresh) is getting released(at least a time frame) ??, is there any new news ??

thank you,
suren

postville refresh is new g2 drives, AFAIK they are out already. the G3 drives are coming really soon. IIRC they were supposed to be last month, got delayed to next month. Probably will not be delayed again.
Also of same gen as G3 is the C400 and sandforce SF2000.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4100/ocz-vertex-pro-3-demo-worlds-first-sandforce-sf2000
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4086/microns-realssd-c400-uses-25nm-nand-at-161gb-offers-415mbs-reads

They have engineering samples already, and they are more than 2x faster than current tech. also expected in the next month or so.

 

[memory]

I just bought and installed a OCZ Vertex 2 120gb and put Windows 7 64bit on it. I have a few questions. According to CrystalDiskInfo, I am running firmware version 1.27. I went to OCZ's website and they have firmware version 1.24 for download. I am assuming 1.27 is the newer firmware. How am I running a newer version that what is available to download?

I have just got Windows installed. To me, it does not seem to start up any quicker. I have only restarted a couple of times though. What types of programs can I use to make sure I am getting the correct speed? Are there any other SSD programs that are useful.

One thing I have noticed is this SSD runs a little warmer than my old WD Black 500gb drive. The SSD runs right at 30 degrees celsius, the WD runs around 25 to 27. The SSD is in the same place as the WD. I thought SSD's were supposed to run cooler.

What about installing programs from a cd or dvd, do SSD's speed that up as well? For example, would reinstalling Windows be any faster now with an SSD or is that limited by the dvd drive?

Something else I noticed is in CrystalDiskInfo, under the function menu, there is an option called "wait time at startup." It is currently set to 30 seconds. What is this and what should it be set to?

 

[Zap]

According to CrystalDiskInfo, I am running firmware version 1.27. I went to OCZ's website and they have firmware version 1.24 for download. I am assuming 1.27 is the newer firmware. How am I running a newer version that what is available to download?

Could be any number of reasons. I've seen this happen with motherboards too. Nothing special.

I have just got Windows installed. To me, it does not seem to start up any quicker.

OMG so many people ask this that I think it is time to add it to the sticky. The short answer is that at BEST you will shave a couple seconds off your boot time to desktop. Where the SSD wins is that once you have your icons and the start menu, your system is usable right away, versus a HDD where you click on stuff but it just rattles away and you have to wait.

What types of programs can I use to make sure I am getting the correct speed? Are there any other SSD programs that are useful.

You aren't getting the "correct" speed.

Basically, few people get the "published" speed due to variations in testing, drivers, platform, etc.

With that being said... You ARE getting the "correct" speed. Probably.

If you want to benchmark, try AS-SSD or Crystal HD Mark or whatever HDD benchmarks are out there.

Just understand that benchmarking degrades your SSD. It will go a bit slower and you will use up part of its finite life (with write benchmarking).

One thing I have noticed is this SSD runs a little warmer than my old WD Black 500gb drive... I thought SSD's were supposed to run cooler.

I got nothing on this one, because I usually don't bother randomly diagnosing stuff that ain't broke.

One possible scenario is with how the drive is mounted. Hard drives dissipate heat through the computer chassis, because they touch the chassis. If an SSD is in a tray of some kind (even aluminum) then it isn't dissipating much heat.

What about installing programs from a cd or dvd, do SSD's speed that up as well? For example, would reinstalling Windows be any faster now with an SSD or is that limited by the dvd drive?

It would be a bit faster since things are unpacked to the SSD, but you are normally still limited by the slower device. That's like asking, "will my data copy faster over the network to a computer with 100Mbit NIC if the other computer has a gigabit NIC?"

Something else I noticed is in CrystalDiskInfo, under the function menu, there is an option called "wait time at startup." It is currently set to 30 seconds. What is this and what should it be set to?

I got nothing on this one. Never saw such an option because I never looked. Anyone else got an answer?

 

[Rubycon]

Cloning a disc image works with latest software. What is not known at this time is how the software deals with alignment.

I suspect that if the partition was aligned to begin with, alignment will be preserved.

I do not know for sure.

As for cloning from a hard drive to an SSD, I think it ends up not aligned.

I use Acronis and restored images are NOT properly aligned. I use a program called Paragon Alignment Utility that fixes it up fast.

 

[memory]

So I shouldn't try to update the firmware for now? I did run the firmware update program from OCZ and my drive is not listed so I couldn't change the firmware. Could this be because I am running a newer firmware version?

Why doesn't SSD's speed up boot time? They are faster than HDD's so why shouldn't they speed up boot time? I don't understand that one.

I just want to run a program to see what kind of numbers I am getting. I understand that it shortens its life span but is it enough to notice? I don't plan on doing this alot.

I have the SSD mounted in the same spot as the other drive. It is mounted in the adapter that came with it which is metal. My case has a place to mount an SSD without the need of an adapter on the bottom next to the PSU. I may try it there sometime and see if I get a different reading.

When first installing Windows on the drive, does it need to be formatted? I was not able to select format during installation, it was greyed out.

 

[Zap]

So I shouldn't try to update the firmware for now?

You said that you already have a NEWER firmware than is listed at the manufacturer's site. What the heck will you update to?

Why doesn't SSD's speed up boot time? They are faster than HDD's so why shouldn't they speed up boot time? I don't understand that one.

I'm working on it. Will be at the beginning of this thread when I'm done.

EDIT: Why doesn't Windows boot much faster with an SSD?

When first installing Windows on the drive, does it need to be formatted? I was not able to select format during installation, it was greyed out.

Except for times when you need to align the partition...

You install an SSD with Windows EXACTLY THE SAME WAY as you would install a HDD. Gosh I should make sure the sticky makes that clear too, as the part "don't need to do anything else" wasn't clear enough.

If it behaves differently than a HDD then there is something else going on.

 

[memory]

Ok so SSD's do not speed up boot time, I understand that. What will cause reduced boot times?

Take a look at this screenshot of AS SSD and tell me if the numbers look ok.

I don't know if this affects the numbers or not but I did have a few fixefox tabs and programs open.

Zap, did you find out anything about the wait time at startup option in CrystalDiskInfo? I was just curious what this is and should it even be changed.

 

[Zap]

What will cause reduced boot times?

Either a more optimized OS, system that POSTs faster or an older OS.

Alternately you can enable S3 Sleep mode and enjoy near instant "booting."

Take a look at this screenshot of AS SSD and tell me if the numbers look ok.

Yes they look fine. Performance is below "advertised" but I've warned that they will be, especially since it looks as if you are testing your drive while running your OS on it. The "advertised" numbers are tested on a blank secondary drive.

Compare your scores against a hard drive and you'll see that a hard drive can't touch it.

Zap, did you find out anything about the wait time at startup option in CrystalDiskInfo? I was just curious what this is and should it even be changed.

Nope. I have no idea what it is and my Google skills are probably no better than yours.

 

[memory]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question but what is S3 sleep mode? Is that a bios setting? Are you serious about instant booting?

Normally I reinstall Windows couple times a year, sometimes more, sometimes less. Should I reinstall Windows less frequent now since I am using an SSD? Would that shorten the life span?

 

[sticks435]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question but what is S3 sleep mode? Is that a bios setting? Are you serious about instant booting?

Normally I reinstall Windows couple times a year, sometimes more, sometimes less. Should I reinstall Windows less frequent now since I am using an SSD? Would that shorten the life span?

S3 is a power saving mode which stores everything you have open to your RAM, instead of your HHD. It allows you to resume from a standby state almost instantly, as RAM is the fastest storage device you have.

 

[Zap]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question but what is S3 sleep mode? Is that a bios setting? Are you serious about instant booting?

Yes, though perhaps I shouldn't call it "booting" since it doesn't go through the boot process. You need to enable it in BIOS (most default to S1 mode, not S3). It might be called "S3 Standby," AKA "Suspend to RAM." You will also need to allow Windows to control power management. I think the default Windows 7 "Balanced" mode enables S3. Look in Power Options in Control Panel for "Sleep after" setting in minutes.

When the system "sleeps" it "suspends to RAM" meaning that everything on your system turns completely off except a trickle of power going to your RAM. I don't know exactly how little power is used, but likely only a Watt or so. Your system probably uses that much anyways due to 5VSB (5V stand-by power). Heck, even your fans will all stop (unless your motherboard doesn't implement S3 properly). Once you turn on your system (some systems can turn on by a mouse or keyboard button, power button works as well) you go back to exactly what you were doing when it went to sleep. If you had a few programs open, they are still open.

Note that some software does not respond well to sleep, and of course I mentioned it isn't always implemented properly on the motherboard or BIOS. For instance my Asus P6T (X58 chipset) takes a long time to wake from S3 (15 seconds maybe, still faster than booting) and often after S3 sleep I will lose one of the sound card channels. My wife's previous Core i5 as well as current Core i5 both work just fine and resumes from S3 in about 2 seconds or less. My HTPC is socket 775 (G45 chipset) and takes more like 3-5 seconds to resume from S3. I've built other socket 1156 and 775 systems that have all resumed fine from S3 within 2-5 seconds.

Normally I reinstall Windows couple times a year, sometimes more, sometimes less. Should I reinstall Windows less frequent now since I am using an SSD? Would that shorten the life span?

Any time you write to an SSD, you use up a bit of its life. With that being said, under "normal" usage (whatever that means) an SSD should outlast its warranty (except for Patriot TorqX with 10 year warranty). Just reinstall Windows if you need to. Now, if you were reinstalling because Windows was getting slow from clutter, you'll find that with an SSD you won't have to do that.

 

[Zap]

I want to check my ssd degradation ,What software should i use ??

You can use AS-SSD or HDTune or any other benchmarking program and compare results with specifications. Note that generally speaking your numbers will almost never match specification, and really you need a before and after results with which to compare. Also, every time you check, you cause MORE degradation.

The best thing to do is to make sure Trim is enabled, and unless performance is severely degraded to the point of it being awful, just don't worry about it.

 

[taltamir]

intel SSD toolbox can give you the value (at least on intel drives, don't know if it can or if it is accurate on others). It will show a smart value "E9 media wearout indicator".
Mine is showing 97. This means I used up 3% of my drive's lifespan and have 97% remaining. (I owned it for more than a year now).

 

[naxeem]

I need a new drive and max I'd like to throw at it is $500.
Right now I have Intel 160GB G2 since I was told that is the most reliable drive, fastest for OS and keeps it's performance over the time.

Now I need a new one, a.k.a. one more. I see many new drives available. G.Skill and Mushkin being on top of the list.

Priorities for me are: reliability, performance, size, price.
If there is no significant difference in reliability, I'd choose performance as first. Since SSDs should be much more reliable than HDDs, I presume reliability should not be an issue either way.

Are G.Skill and Mushkin that report 285/275 really that much faster than Intel 160GB G2 that reports 250/70 and performs 240/100?
I use those drives for development work and virtual machine images running.

What would you suggest?
OCZ Vertex 2? G.Skill Phoenix Pro? Mushkin Callisto Deluxe? or again Intel G2 if it's really much reliable than others.

I've heard some people had problems with SSDs "loosing data"? I presume thats history with current generation.

 

[taltamir]

get the intel G3 in a month

 

[Aristotelian]

Regarding SSD degradation through use (writes):

I bought 2x Crucial C300 (256GB) recently, and plan to use one as my OS drive with all of the work applications (From Microsoft Office, to video/photo editing, SolidWorks and so on), with the second one for Games, downloads, ripping movies, my music and so on (as I hate to have to sort through physical storage media).

The data on the first drive shouldn't change too much (beyond windows update and software patching in general) but on the second drive the games might change, the downloaded data might be sorted through and deleted/archived as necessary (on an external 1TB drive) and my music tastes might shift. Essentially my question is, should SSD drives not be used as a multipurpose target drive still? I posted this concern in my General Hardware thread regarding my new build and was essentially told "by the time the degradation is a problem it'll be time for a new ssd anyway". I read the faq and noted Zap's concern re: repeated benchmarking, defragging and so on, but I didn't see anything warning one against using an ssd as a multipurpose multimedia drive. Ideally I'd like to use these two ssds for pretty much all of my PC usage, keeping my 1TB external merely for disk imaging/backing up my work as needed (using it as little as possible). I would hope to get a good two years usage out of this latest build, keeping things as zippy as possible.

 

[taltamir]

by the time the degradation is a problem it'll be time for a new ssd anyway

This is correct.

but I didn't see anything warning one against using an ssd as a multipurpose multimedia drive.

Because this is not a problem.

keeping things as zippy as possible.

The speed of the SSD does not degrade from writing to it.
The "performance degredation" is a misnomer, when a drive gets to "written to at least once" state there is a significant one time drop of about 1/3 its speed. It does not further degrade, and the speed can be restored to the "never written to" state (and prevented from dropping again) if you have TRIM.

The limited amount of writes means that after a certain amount of data has been written your SSD becomes read only. This is long enough on modern SSDs to not be an issue. My 80GB intel G2 for example has lost 3% of its lifespan's writes after more then a year of use. This gives it an estimated lifespan of 33 years. I am not going to be using it for 33 years.

 

[Anubis]

I use Acronis and restored images are NOT properly aligned. I use a program called Paragon Alignment Utility that fixes it up fast.

winry to the rescue :thumbsup:

ill make note of this but ill prob just do a full install anyway, bout that time and i got some other quirks that can easily be fixed but just doing a reinstall

 

[LuluTheMonk]

Step 1: Enable AHCI in BIOS. (alternately RAID)

Step 2: Install Windows 7.

That's it!

What if you don't have AHCI? I have an abit IP35-E and am pretty sure I don't have AHCI.