New to SSDs? Read this first before asking questions! (UPDATED 07/17/2011)

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DannyLove

Lifer
Oct 17, 2000
12,876
4
76
I see. As far as recording, I'd be recording a lot, I have a project to fulfill where I'm recording vinyl to mp3 and I have tons of it. And the method I use records as .wav first which we all know is a lot of space. I suppose I can save the files to a HDD, I was just merely asking if it would generally be a good idea to write on the SSD. TY
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
I see. As far as recording, I'd be recording a lot, I have a project to fulfill where I'm recording vinyl to mp3 and I have tons of it. And the method I use records as .wav first which we all know is a lot of space. I suppose I can save the files to a HDD, I was just merely asking if it would generally be a good idea to write on the SSD. TY

How much exactly? I seriously seriously doubt it is nearly as much as you think it is.
Uncompressed WAV are what you find on audio CD. that is, 84 minutes per 700MB of space. That is not nearly as large as you think.
At nonstop writing the SSD would be writing 8640000MB/day.
Unless you are ripping 12343 whole 84 minute disks a DAY you will not reach that number.

I am looking at wikipedia and I am showing that venyl records varied from 4 minutes to a max of 50 minutes per record (double sided).
So you would need to rip even more of those.

However, you don't have to max out your SSD to wear it out. LCPM is 700MB/84 minutes = 8.34 MB/min.
An 80GB SSD with 1.84x write amplification (I am using my own as an example) and 5000 writes per cell gives you a total lifespan of 80GB * 5000 / 1.84 = 217391.3GB total writes in drive life
If you want it to last 10 years that limits you to 21739.13GB/year * year/365days = 59.56GB/day = 60988.68MB/day
50 minute vinyl * 8.34MB/min = 417MB vinyl

60988.68MB/day / 417MB vinyl = 146.25 vinyls (50 min variety) a day.
And that is for a 10 year lifespan of the SSD. Rip 1/10th of that and now the drive lasts 100 years. Of course you have OTHER things writing to it but really, its a non issue.
 
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DannyLove

Lifer
Oct 17, 2000
12,876
4
76
lol, I guess its a non-issue then after your math explanation. Sounds like this can work then. Thanks so much for your input.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
With Windows 7, you use an SSD just like you would use a hard drive, with two differences. You want to enable AHCI in BIOS, and you don't want to run Defrag. I repeat, THAT'S IT!

it should be noted, you DO want to run defrag, you just want to only run it on your spindle drives. (which you probably have as bulk storage alongside your SSD).
By default windows 7 will only schedule automatic defragmenting on spindle drives, but exclude SSDs. You can manually defrag an SSD, but shouldn't. Defrag isn't even loaded into memory on startup, only when it is scheduled to run. So a system with only an SSD and no spindle drive will never run the defrag service.. unless you plug in a spindle drive one day.

It should be noted that the intel SSD toobox "ssd optimizations" disables defrag outright. This sabotages the performance of the spindle HDD, making it look even worse compared to the SSD on a system with an intel SSD. You should not let the intel SSD toolbox "optimize" your OS. Not a single one of the changes that they make to your OS is positive, every single one of them is a bad choice.
 

Damascus

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,434
0
0
An SSD will work better with a 4k aligned partition and an operating system and BIOS that supports Trim. What does this all mean? 4k aligned partition is just some mumbo jumbo that means your system can support big hard drives (like the new 3TB drives). Windows Vista and Windows 7 support it, but Windows XP does not. All SSDs and more and more HDDs are coming out that need 4k aligned partitions, so this isn't unique to SSDs. Drives will usually work without it, but at a loss in efficiency and (in the case of SSDs) maybe decreased life span.

I recently purchased the 120GB X25-M and had the Windows 7 installer create and format a partition on it.

I made the partition exactly 102400MiB (exactly 100GiB) and in Disk Management, it does list the drive as 100.0GiB. However in Explorer, the drive is listed as 99.9GiB and lo and behold, when I check the properties, the drive is 107,374,178,304 bytes which is exactly 4096 bytes/one 4KiB cluster less than 100GiB.

I'm not sure why that is, I just thought it was odd.
 

Drsignguy

Platinum Member
Mar 24, 2002
2,264
0
76
Windows creates a partition for data protection and also The Gigabyte is "rounded off", simplified.

Wikipedia explains it in detail:


From Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte#C ... _confusion

Consumer confusion
Since 2001, most consumer hard drives are defined by their gigabyte-range capacities. The true capacity is usually some number above or below the class designation. Although most manufacturers of hard disks and Flash disks define 1 gigabyte as 1,000,000,000 bytes, the computer operating systems used by most users usually calculate a gigabyte by dividing the bytes (whether it is disk capacity, file size, or system RAM) by 1,073,741,824. This distinction is a cause of confusion, as a hard disk with a manufacturer rated capacity of 400 gigabytes may have its capacity reported by the operating system as only 372 GB, depending on the type of report.

The difference between units based on SI and binary prefixes increases exponentially — in other words, an SI kilobyte is nearly 98% as much as a kibibyte, but a megabyte is under 96% as much as a mebibyte, and a gigabyte is just over 93% as much as a gibibyte. This means that a 500 GB hard disk drive would appear as "465 GB". As storage sizes get larger and higher units are used, this difference will become more pronounced.

Note that computer memory is addressed in base 2, due to its design, so memory size is always a power of two (or some closely related quantity, for instance 384 MiB = 3×227 bytes). It is thus convenient to work in binary units for RAM at the hardware level (for example, in using DIMM memory units). RAM memory size as seen by application software has no consistent bias towards power of two units, as the operating system will allocate memory in other granularities. Other computer measurements, like storage hardware size, data transfer rates, clock speeds, operations per second, etc., do not have an inherent base, and are usually presented in decimal units.

An example, take a hard drive that can store exactly 250×109 or 250 billion bytes after formatting. Generally, operating systems calculate disk and file sizes using binary numbers, so this 250 GB drive would be reported as "232.83 GB". The result is that there is a significant discrepancy between what the consumer believes they have purchased and what their operating system says they have.

Some consumers feel short-changed when they discover the difference, and claim that manufacturers of drives and data transfer devices are using the decimal measurements in an intentionally misleading way to inflate their numbers. Several legal disputes have been waged over the confusion.

To further complicate matters, flash memory chips are organized in multiples of 2, but retail flash memory products have available capacities specified by multiples of 10. Removable flash storage products contain file systems that make the devices behave like hard disks instead of RAM, yet it is called 'memory'. In operating systems like Windows Vista, flash memory can indeed be treated like RAM.

The basis of the problem is that the official definition of the SI units is not well known,[citation needed] and some legal settlements include directions for manufacturers to use clearer information, e.g. by stating a hard disk's size in both GB and GiB. However, JEDEC memory standards still use the IEEE 100 nomenclatures.
 

Damascus

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,434
0
0
If that response was directed at me, I was clearly using binary prefixes, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.
 

rsuren

Junior Member
Jan 17, 2011
9
0
0
Hello,
when will SSD based on 20nm will come out ??,
do you have any news the intel's next SSD series ?? (400 Series)

why i'm asking this? to get cheaper SSD, since present one are still expensive,
and there is no the brand then intel which i can trust in the long run.
other SSD are failing so fast.

thank you,
suren
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Hello,
when will SSD based on 20nm will come out ??,
do you have any news the intel's next SSD series ?? (400 Series)

why i'm asking this? to get cheaper SSD, since present one are still expensive,
and there is no the brand then intel which i can trust in the long run.
other SSD are failing so fast.

thank you,
suren

25nm greatly cut production cost but cost to purchase for consumer did not go down. This is because supply and demand, there is simply too much demand and demand is actually increasing all the time. We will eventually reach a saturation point, but 20nm is not necessarily going to mean lower prices.
 

rsuren

Junior Member
Jan 17, 2011
9
0
0
Hello,
thank you for the reply.,
and yes, even newegg is selling the new intel 320 SSD at higher price then MSRP
 

rsuren

Junior Member
Jan 17, 2011
9
0
0
Hello guys,
can anyone please recommend me in SSD which is close to reliable as intel's 320 SSDs and cheap ?? i'm looking for 120 GB drive.

thank you,\suren
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
2
81
can anyone please recommend me in SSD which is close to reliable as intel's 320 SSDs and cheap ?? i'm looking for 120 GB drive.

Maybe an Intel X25-M G2 120GB? If you can find one in-stock and on-sale. There have been some hot deals putting these under $200. If they're discontinued, then may as well wait for the Intel 320 120GB to go on a sale.
 

bulanula

Member
Apr 20, 2011
76
0
0
Zap, what SSD would you recommend considering that it needs to have the following things :

-use SLC memory
-be Intel-based for superior reliability ( eg the best controller sandforce is not reliable enough for me )
-have AES hardware encryption ?
-sata not pci

Thank you very much for your time !

More on this SLC discussion here http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=31634385 !
 
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Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
2
81
I don't know about AES hardware encryption, but there's only one SSD that matches your other requirements, and that is the Intel X25-E series of SSDs.
 

bulanula

Member
Apr 20, 2011
76
0
0
Well I am kind of hoping that the rumoured Larsen Creek will also match these requirements at a cheap price.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
Setup - 90GB Vertex 2, Dell M4400 laptop (latest BIOS), 32-bit Windows XP SP3 on a domain.

Problem - after logging in, the system hangs for about 2 minutes. Totally locks up, then acts normal. Also, it seems to stutter from time to time. Other than that, it's great - gets about 255 MB/s, real fast, everything else is peachy. Drive is setup in BIOS as IRRT (Intel Rapid Recorvery Technology), not sure if that's ATA or AHCI. Have the latest updates in Windows. Lockup problems don't happen on the previous hard drive. I haven't setup 32-bit XP with an SSD before, so I'm not sure if there's some special tweaks I need to do - manual alignment, AHCI, apps, etc.
 
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Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
2
81
The partition will be misaligned. I'm not sure it would cause the 2 minute hang, but it could be the cause of the stuttering.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,518
5,340
136
The partition will be misaligned. I'm not sure it would cause the 2 minute hang, but it could be the cause of the stuttering.

OK, so align the drive & reinstall the OS? Is cloning an image back to the SSD after aligning OK, or would that screw things up?
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
2
81
That usually screws it up because alignment happens with the partition, and cloning overwrites the partition.
 

omainik

Junior Member
Jun 22, 2011
1
0
0
Please recommend an SSD for MacBook Pro.

The optical drive of my MBP doesnt work reliably any more, so I want to replace it with a SSD. The HDD stays. The SSD is only for System files and often used user data - currently 44GB. The machine should stay for the next two years. So 60GB used space should be sufficient.

The machine is used for viewing the web, photo viewing, sound recording in 24 Bit / 96 kHz.

The HDD is fast enough for recording purposes.

Is 100Gb SSD enough to allow level wearing mechanism to work correctly?
The MBP is two Years old and does support only 3 MB/S Sata.

Which size and type of SSD should I install?
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
2
81
Please recommend an SSD for MacBook Pro.
...
Which size and type of SSD should I install?

There are already some recommendations earlier in this thread (see first section).

For capacity, the larger the better. The reason is:
1) Larger drives perform better.
2) If perchance you run out of capacity, life REALLY starts to suck.
3) Wear leveling means it may outlast your computer.
 

ibex333

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2005
4,092
123
106
My SSDs are in RAID 0 array... CrystalDisk cannot show if I have Trim or not because of this. How do I know if I have this Trim feature?
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
2
81
If they are actually IN a RAID array, then they are not getting Trim commands.
 

WaTaGuMp

Lifer
May 10, 2001
21,207
2,506
126
I wonder how long till we see much higher price drops. I am trying my best to hold off till then.
 
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