New Video Card vs. New Processor

MikeNice

Junior Member
Dec 26, 2002
3
0
0
Here's my current specs:

ECS K7AMA
AMD AthlonXP 1800+ 1.53GHz
VisionTek Xtasy GeForce 3 Ti200
512MB RAM

I've got about $250 of spending money right now and I was wondering which would best increase my performance for Unreal Tournament 2K3. If I get a video card, it will definitely be a Geforce 4 Ti4600. If I get a processor, it will be a high end AthlonXP. I will eventually have both, but for now, I want the biggest performance increase until I get the other one.

So far people have giving me reasons for both ways but I'm still undecided. Any input would be apreciated. THANKS!
 

MSNY

Senior member
Oct 29, 1999
474
0
0
I'm in the same boat with a similar system except with a GF2 Ultra. I'm considering either a GF/FX or Radeon 9700PRO.
Either one of these I think will be like "getting a processor upgrade". In the short term a GF4 may be at a good price while the above 2 cards are released. While DX9 is now out, remember that the GF4 does NOT support this API, so future games many not run good or at all on it. Of course that will be a while down the road.

If you want to future proof your deicison then the above 2 cards are best. If you want a card for the short term, and at a good price then the GF4 might be best.

I'm waiting for the GF/FX release in just a few weeks to compare benches. At that time the GF4 prices should drop like a rock. So if you can wait, it might be smart and save you $$.
 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
9,537
2
0
Definitely your video card. Your CPU is still very capable. With a CPU of that speed, and the main reason for upgrading is gaming performance, a video card will be the upgrade that will impact game performance the most.

With that budget, you can get a 9500pro which will be a very significant upgrade. If you can hold out a month or so (GeForce FX release), that'll drive current prices down oven further. Then you may be able to get a 9700 standard in your price range, or even a 9700 pro.

Chiz
 

lifeguard1999

Platinum Member
Jul 3, 2000
2,323
1
0
Looking at the Anandtech CPU scaling review for .GPU Shootout with Unreal Tournament 2003 - CPU Scaling. At 1.53 GHz and beyond, the GF3 Ti200 is GPU bound at 800x600 with about 140fps. A GeForce Ti4600 is getting 200+fps at 800x600. Therefore, a CPU upgrade is worthless with the GF3 Ti200 and any resolution above 800x600. The GeForce Ti4600 continues to scale with the CPU at 800x600.

Looking at the Anandtech CPU scaling review for the 9700 Pro. At 1.53 GHz and beyond, the Ti4600 is GPU bound at both 1024x768 and 1280x1024. Any increase in CPU speed beyond that point yields very little increase in FPS. The 9700 Pro continues to scale for 1024x768, but starts to be GPU bound at 1280x1024.

The 9500 Pro, which is DX9 capable, is very competitive to the Ti4600 (wins some benchmarks, loses others). But I do not expect DX9 games to arrive for another year.

Of course, to take the GPU out of being the limiting factor, you could simply dial back the detail settings. Still, I would go with a video card upgrade in your case.

Personally, I would wait 1 month for the GeForce FX to be announced as that will put pressure on the Ti4600/9700 Pro prices, just like MSNY said. Then again, the Ti4600 prices have dropped a good bit already with the 9700 Pro coming out.
 

MSNY

Senior member
Oct 29, 1999
474
0
0
Ive also reflected on the GPU/CPU bounding effects. But let's face it, most of us are sytem builders who will upgrade. So even if your card choice is overkill now, when you do upgrade the CPU you will. in effect, be getting a larger overall boost and may even delay another video card update for a while longer.

I'd like to at least go to a 3 ghz system by the end of next year (03') so the high end cards now are worth it to me now.
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
Definitely a VGA. Your Ti200 is a very feeble card by todays standards, your 1800+ could drive a 9700 pretty well.
 

AnAndAustin

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
2,112
0
0
XP1800+ is more than powerful enough, I'd wait on the CPU upgrade until the XP2400+ and up CPUs come down in price (Feb-Mar). IN fact GF3TI200 with a little tweaking is still able to play ALL current games with good FPS and res, if you want something now forget the GF4TI4600 it's a waste of cash, go for a Rad9500PRO for about $200 as it's far superior in pretty much every way. A GF2ultra is still decent but I'd rec upgrading to a GF3 or more pref Rad8500 or GF4TI4200 which offer a HUGE improvement (esp with an XP1800+ and up type CPU) and are about $100. Again you could go with a Rad9500PRO as that's a very sweet card but GF3 level perf is still more than enough for all but the most mad/hungry users.
 

MikeNice

Junior Member
Dec 26, 2002
3
0
0
Thanks everyone for your help so far. I just got home from work and had a bit of reading to do. I guess I'll definitely be going with a video card upgrade. I'm also going to wait for the release of the GFFX so current card prices will drop.

Why are most of you guys against the 4600? I don't get it. I thought that was a top-of-the-line card (besides the 9700). I had an ATI 8500 a while back but it didn't get along too well with my system, thats when I got the Ti200. I'm a bit wary about going back to ATI. I'm wondering if it still won't get along with my system or if they fixed their compatibility issues.

From what you guys referred, I'm leaning toward the card. Not sure which one yet tho...
 

Rubberbband

Member
Nov 28, 2002
34
0
0
I had a Ti200 and was getting about 7200 3dmarks. Now I get 10031 3dmarks with my GF4 Ti4200. Not a huge leap but a noticeable one. I also use the 1800XP by the way.
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
7,430
0
71
I agree, 1800+ is sufficient for the time being, and the new video card will give an appreciable speed upgrade.

The GF3 would still actually gain something from a CPU upgrade (it isnt totally CPU bound above 1.4 GHz), but the GF4 upgrade would be much more effective. Plus the GF4 would gain even more from a faster CPU down the road.
 

MikeNice

Junior Member
Dec 26, 2002
3
0
0
Someone just told me that I should think about getting a new MoBo also. One that will support 8x AGP. Man...so many variables to consider.

Let me ask it this way instead then...

If you guys had my system and (now) $350 to spend for improvements, what would you do? BTW, my mem isn't DDR.
 

mrzed

Senior member
Jan 29, 2001
811
0
0
I'm kinda with AnAndAustin on this. You can pretty much play anything at reasonable resolution with your setup. If I had your system, I'd spend the $350 on a great monitor or chair or DVD burner or something. But then I only tend to upgrade when my system just won't do something that I want/need it to. Some folks just want to upgrade, and I can respect that. Better than spending it on drugs I suppose.
 

AnAndAustin

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2002
2,112
0
0
What chipset does the ECS K7AMA use? If it's KT266A, KT333, KT400, nForce, SiS735 or SiS745 I wouldn't rec you bother upgrading it, any of those should take at least any 266FSB AthlonXP (up to XP2400+?). Things that the newer mobos have since KT266A / SiS735 really aren't overly necessary at all. ATA133 isn't truly any better than ATA100 or even ATA66 FTM. Same goes for AGP8x over AGP4x, VERY minute diff and not worth spending money on at all, I doubt even the Rad9700PRO takes much hit (1%ish) by running in 4x mode. 333FSB only gets worth it for the XP2400+ and faster CPUs but even then 266FSB doesn't overly hurt perf, prob not worth spending the extra on a new mobo if that's all your current one won't do. Then there's USB2, about the only thing with a noticable perf gain but even then there's still very little which uses it and this can easily be added via a cheap PCI card if necessary anyway. Another matter is Barton support (AthlonXP with double the cache), I'm pretty sure only KT400 and nForce2 will accept it but I doubt anybody knows for sure, but a Barton with 512k L2 cache is unlikely to be much faster than current XP's and will certainly be expensive, SktA is reaching the end of the line (hello Hammer) which is another reason to avoid laying down too much cash if your current mobo is okay. So basicly it's unlikely that a mobo upgrade would be worth it. Oh, I nearly forgot you said you currently use SDR PC133, the perf hit from using SDR-PC133 over DDR-PC2100 is about 10% over all system perf but DDR is twice the price of SDR. I'd take 512MB SDR-PC133 over 256MB DDR-PC2100 but anyway if you upgrade your mobo it will mean roughly $50-60 new mobo, $60-110 for DDR (256MB-512MB) and you'll gain roughly 15% perf, a little better upgradability and a few little features like AGP8x, ATA133 and USB2. I'd rec spending your cash on a better gfx card first even though TI200 is still very decent!

So what would I do? If you absolutely need to upgrade then a gfx card would easily be tops. Rad9700 and 9700PRO are tops but they will devalue quickly and very few features will be of use for the price you pay. At $100ish a GF4TI4200 is a good choice but not hugely faster than your TI200 once it's o/c'ed, above this there's the 4400 and 4600 which aren't hugely faster but are priced about the same as the HUGELY superior Rad9500PRO which is what I'd go for personally, about $200. That leaves $150 to spend but XP2400+ and up are the only CPU upgrade worth it and they're still way overpriced (much like the P4 options). I don't think a new mobo will likely be worth it but you could get any mobo based on the KT400 ($70ish) or nForce2 ($100+) and of course DDR to go with it as we know 256MB $60 or 512MB $110.

I'd suggest you wait a few months as your system is more than capable and all of your upgrade options will be significantly decreasing over the next 8 weeks or so. If you want a boost now Rad9500PRO is IMHO the best option, see how you like it and then consider where to put the extra $150 (and consider keeping it in your pocket for a bit). If you wanted to a new mobo is more than fine and you could get 256MB now and then add more a little later. Lots of options but if you're itching for a speed boost Rad9500PRO is the only sensible and 'bang for buck' option (again IMHO).

ADDED: Oh do check the 9700 prices and 4400/4600 FTM as the prices should be changing all the time, if a 4400/4600 are under $150 then they are viable options and if a 9700 is close to $200 snap that up as the 256bit RAM bandwidth really gives a VERY nice boost. Another point is ATI cards and drivers, I'd trust them they are now VERY good indeed, simply changing the gfx card can often mean a fresh OS is needed and I think that's partly down to M$, ATI/nVidia trying to keep users loyal to them and also highly optimised drivers. Oh, do try o/c'ng your TI200 a little as you should get near (or exceed) GF3TI500 speeds and that may be all the boost you need for the moment and it's a free boost too!
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
"Better than spending it on drugs I suppose. "

Awww maaannnnn! Don't be harshin' my buzz an' goin' all establishment on me! I can get that sh*t from my parents, don't need it on the bbs! What do you know anyway?!



LOL- so says the flat topped 39 year old who hasn't a spliff since the 80s.......
 
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