New video card wanted .. $150 limit maybe?

[Phaetos]

What do you mean?

"if you can buy a 7970 for 150$ brand new, this is the way to go. it is a 280x which is fastest card in the 150$ price range."

If it's a 280x, just say it's a 280x, but it's cheaper than a branded 280x. I don't understand the different in the nomenclature by calling it two differing things.

 

[Smoblikat]

"if you can buy a 7970 for 150$ brand new, this is the way to go. it is a 280x which is fastest card in the 150$ price range."

If it's a 280x, just say it's a 280x, but it's cheaper than a branded 280x. I don't understand the different in the nomenclature by calling it two differing things.

Because they are 2 different things.

HD7970 != 280X.

 

[Phaetos]

Because they are 2 different things.

HD7970 != 280X.

So the quote from the previous poster is incorrect, it is NOT a 280x. So then what is the difference in the cards? I've been out of this game for too long and it's a confusing space to be in.

 

[Headfoot]

They're technically different. It's the same chip, just running at higher clock speeds with a slightly different power management targets on the 280x. The 280x is basically the 7970 Ghz Edition. The 7970 normal version was clocked at 925. They all overclock to about the same max overclock

 

[Phaetos]

They're technically different. It's the same chip, just running at higher clock speeds with a slightly different power management targets on the 280x. The 280x is basically the 7970 Ghz Edition. The 7970 normal version was clocked at 925. They all overclock to about the same max overclock

so is the power management better or worse for the 280x compared to the 7970?

 

[rip]

I was looking at a 7970. My temps with Witcher 2 were 107+ then it turned off. I pulled it out and cleaned it thoroughly and my temps are now at 70+...near 80C.
CLEAN YOUR CARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I read in another thread that 20C reduction is not possible with simply cleaning. Well, it's true. And, I'll up it to 30C !!! that's a lot of heat.....regards,
Dana

 

[Techhog]

I was looking into the PowerColor stuff but I'm not digging the reviews about their products.

Yeah, don't go PowerColor

 

[Headfoot]

so is the power management better or worse for the 280x compared to the 7970?

A little better on the 280x but its so small as to basically not be worth mentioning. For all intents and purposes the 280x and the 7970 GHZ Edition are the same card.

 

[RussianSensation]

So the quote from the previous poster is incorrect, it is NOT a 280x. So then what is the difference in the cards? I've been out of this game for too long and it's a confusing space to be in.

HD7970Ghz has clocks of 1.05Ghz > most R9 280Xs that have 1-1.03Ghz clocks.

R9 280X > 925mhz HD7970, but some HD7970 cards were 1Ghz like the Gigabyte Windforce 3X HD7970 or Sapphire Dual-X HD7970 OC.

The most important things you need to look at are the cooler and the clock speed of that particular model. For example, I would take MSI HD7970 Lightning over the Asus DCUII R9 280X but I would take the Sapphire Tri-X R9 280X over a Sapphire dual-fan HD7970/XFX HD7970. Stay away from XFX for the HD7970 generation.

The difference in power usage between an R9 280X and HD7970Ghz is less important than choosing the best cooler to ensure you get a cool and quiet card for years to come.

Here is an HD7970 round-up
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-7970-overclock-review,3186.html

 

[TeknoBug]

R7 265, R9 270 or GTX750Ti should fit the $150 budget (not counting tax).

 

[Phaetos]

Omg, I'm still confused. Eeny meeny miney mo, might be how I pick a new card!

 

[EightySix Four]

Omg, I'm still confused. Eeny meeny miney mo, might be how I pick a new card!

It's a bit ironic that everyone in the forums works so hard to be helpful but because they see things through their own particular lens it just makes things harder. My recommendation is this - go to your favorite retailer and find the top selling cards in your price range. Figure out the games you do play/plan on playing, and then find 2-3 video card comparison pages (like Anandtech's here) and see which ones perform best in the games you want.

It takes a bit of work, but asking this question on tech forums is the equivalent of being at Comic Con and asking if you should start reading Batman or Spiderman. Just a huge can of worms.

 

[RussianSensation]

Omg, I'm still confused. Eeny meeny miney mo, might be how I pick a new card!

It's simple:

Used - any of these for under $140

HD7970Ghz > R9 280X > GTX680 ~ HD7970 > GTX670 ~ R9 280 > HD7950

New:

GTX270X > R9 270 > GTX750Ti

CPU: AMD A10-6800K Richland 4.1GHz (4.4GHz Turbo) Socket FM2 100W Quad-Core Desktop Processor - Black Edition AMD Radeon

^ This is a major bottleneck, so if you can find any of the cards above for $80-90, get them. For example, if you can find an HD7950 for $80, it's way better than $140 R9 280X for your system because of your CPU bottleneck. However, since most of these used cards go for very similar amounts, and there is way more value in used HD7950/7970/R9 280/280X than in new R9 270X/270/750Ti, that's why people recommended you going used. Another reason is the used 7900 series cards have 3GB of VRAM which is a nice bonus over those new 2GB cards.

 

[Phaetos]

It's a bit ironic that everyone in the forums works so hard to be helpful but because they see things through their own particular lens it just makes things harder. My recommendation is this - go to your favorite retailer and find the top selling cards in your price range. Figure out the games you do play/plan on playing, and then find 2-3 video card comparison pages (like Anandtech's here) and see which ones perform best in the games you want.

It takes a bit of work, but asking this question on tech forums is the equivalent of being at Comic Con and asking if you should start reading Batman or Spiderman. Just a huge can of worms.

Thanks for the recommendation, but the only viable retailer I get is BestBuy, and all they seem to be stocking is XFX cards on the low end ( 240,250, 270 maybe) and the higher-end nvidia offerings. That's why I try to get as much as I can from forums like this, I just don't have a decent offering of places to buy parts locally.

 

[Phaetos]

It's simple:

Used - any of these for under $140

HD7970Ghz > R9 280X > GTX680 ~ HD7970 > GTX670 ~ R9 280 > HD7950

New:

GTX270X > R9 270 > GTX750Ti

CPU: AMD A10-6800K Richland 4.1GHz (4.4GHz Turbo) Socket FM2 100W Quad-Core Desktop Processor - Black Edition AMD Radeon

^ This is a major bottleneck, so if you can find any of the cards above for $80-90, get them. For example, if you can find an HD7950 for $80, it's way better than $140 R9 280X for your system because of your CPU bottleneck. However, since most of these used cards go for very similar amounts, and there is way more value in used HD7950/7970/R9 280/280X than in new R9 270X/270/750Ti, that's why people recommended you going used. Another reason is the used 7900 series cards have 3GB of VRAM which is a nice bonus over those new 2GB cards.

Thanks Russian. I wish I could rebuild my system, but I'm doing good just to be able to get a vid card to replace the one in the APU. You've stated twice now that my processor is a major bottleneck. Maybe I'm thinking too simply about this, but how is a QuadCore 4.1Ghz a bottleneck? Back when I was building PC's regularly, higher = better. Is it because it's an APU with the built-in GPU?

 

[EliteRetard]

Thanks Russian. I wish I could rebuild my system, but I'm doing good just to be able to get a vid card to replace the one in the APU. You've stated twice now that my processor is a major bottleneck. Maybe I'm thinking too simply about this, but how is a QuadCore 4.1Ghz a bottleneck? Back when I was building PC's regularly, higher = better. Is it because it's an APU with the built-in GPU?

Essentially AMD went backwards in performance in order to add "more cores". It has taken them years to get back the performance they lost. I have a Phenom II 4GHz 6 core from 2010 that can compete with current AMD CPU's. Meanwhile video cards have not regressed in performance, they have gained it. Significantly so since 2010, and these faster video cards need a faster CPU to keep feeding them data.

Unfortunately AMD CPUs just aren't fast enough to feed the best video cards today. Intel CPU's took a different path sticking with fewer cores and ended up being much faster clock for clock than AMD CPU's (only recently have they begun adding more cores at the highest end). Therefore when combined with the highest end GPU's Intel almost always provides better performance (though usually at a higher price).

Also, yes the IGP in your AMD APU is eating up die space and power that could otherwise be used to improve the CPU. Typically the IGP in the AMD CPU's is much better than the ones in Intel CPU's...but the IGP goes to waste when using an add in video card.

Here's a comparison of your AMD CPU vs a "typical gaming CPU" 4 core Intel:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1262?vs=1261

Notice some benchmarks where lower scores are better (like time to complete). You can see the Intel CPU even at a lower 3.5GHz beats the AMD chip in most everything, until it comes time for the graphics tests with the integrated GPU...AMD is typically much faster there. But again, CPU graphics don't matter when adding in a separate GPU, it's the general CPU performance that is used to feed these add in cards.

 

[RussianSensation]

Thanks for the recommendation, but the only viable retailer I get is BestBuy, and all they seem to be stocking is XFX cards on the low end ( 240,250, 270 maybe) and the higher-end nvidia offerings. That's why I try to get as much as I can from forums like this, I just don't have a decent offering of places to buy parts locally.

You can't order online from places like Amazon or Newegg? Well BestBuy has 750Ti for $199 and XFX R9 270X for $199. Maybe you can ask one of your relatives or friends to order you the same parts from Newegg.com or Amazon.com? I mean 750Ti can often be found for $120 and R9 270 for $130. But since your budget is $150, the cards at that price at BestBuy are simply awful. I really don't know what to recommend you if you can't shop online in the US and can't buy used cards.

R9 270X is 44% faster than a 750Ti at 1080P which means if you are shopping at BestBuy the 270X is the better performance buy. In GPU demanding titles, you'll see most of that but in CPU limited titles an R9 270x and 750Ti will perform similarly. This is because each of your cores (in the quad-core configuration) cannot get as much work done per clock cycle as say a 4.1Ghz Core i5 from Intel.

Think about it this way -- say we have an 18-wheeler-AMD truck that can travel at 4.1Ghz, and it can only carry 10 tons of cargo. On a parallel road an 18-wheeler-Intel truck has more horsepower so it can travel at 4.1Ghz but carry an extra trailer with 80% of more towing capacity as a result of the extra towing capability offered by a superior engine in the 18-wheeler. The end result is the 18-wheeler-Intel truck with a trailer that carries 8 tons can carry a total of 18 tons at 4.1Ghz.

You cannot just directly compare the amount of work that an AMD CPU does at 4.1Ghz to a modern Intel Haswell processor clocked at 4.1Ghz. The way the modern Intel core processes data and performs calculations/predictions is much faster/more efficient per each clock cycle.

 

[96Firebird]

What EightySix Four meant by retailer was e-tailer, meaning where you plan to buy it from. I don't think he meant actual B&M store.

 

[Phaetos]

You can't order online from places like Amazon or Newegg? Well BestBuy has 750Ti for $199 and XFX R9 270X for $199. Maybe you can ask one of your relatives or friends to order you the same parts from Newegg.com or Amazon.com? I mean 750Ti can often be found for $120 and R9 270 for $130. But since your budget is $150, the cards at that price at BestBuy are simply awful. I really don't know what to recommend you if you can't shop online in the US and can't buy used cards.

R9 270X is 44% faster than a 750Ti at 1080P which means if you are shopping at BestBuy the 270X is the better performance buy. In GPU demanding titles, you'll see most of that but in CPU limited titles an R9 270x and 750Ti will perform similarly. This is because each of your cores (in the quad-core configuration) cannot get as much work done per clock cycle as say a 4.1Ghz Core i5 from Intel.

Think about it this way -- say we have an 18-wheeler-AMD truck that can travel at 4.1Ghz, and it can only carry 10 tons of cargo. On a parallel road an 18-wheeler-Intel truck has more horsepower so it can travel at 4.1Ghz but carry an extra trailer with 80% of more towing capacity as a result of the extra towing capability offered by a superior engine in the 18-wheeler. The end result is the 18-wheeler-Intel truck with a trailer that carries 8 tons can carry a total of 18 tons at 4.1Ghz.

You cannot just directly compare the amount of work that an AMD CPU does at 4.1Ghz to a modern Intel Haswell processor clocked at 4.1Ghz. The way the modern Intel core processes data and performs calculations/predictions is much faster/more efficient per each clock cycle.

No what I meant was that there was no physical viable decent place to buy anything. I can most certainly order anything I want I'm just one of those that wants to be able to go buy it and put my hands on it *now*

 

[EightySix Four]

What EightySix Four meant by retailer was e-tailer, meaning where you plan to buy it from. I don't think he meant actual B&M store.

This is correct.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

I just got the 270 2GB for $130. There were other models were refurb/open box for less It was a 100% increase on my old 6870 and can play every one of my games flawlessly. It only uses a single 6 pin connector.

 

[Headfoot]

No what I meant was that there was no physical viable decent place to buy anything. I can most certainly order anything I want I'm just one of those that wants to be able to go buy it and put my hands on it *now*

Best Buy's prices are really quite bad for graphics cards, so i'd definitely order at newegg or amazon

 

[seitur]

I'm in the same boat. Witcher 2 is currently maxing out my GTX480 temps - MAXING, like 107C then it shuts off. Never used to do that; perhaps it needs cleaning and fresh thermal paste. The 7970 looks good but I will follow this thread 'cuz I'm also budget limited.

Yeah definately your GTX 480 needs cleaning and change of thermal paste.
The Witcher 2 is taxing on GPU, but I've run it on GTX 470 and it did not shut down, so yeah clean and change paste.

7970 or 280x are good affordable uppgrades for you if you're budget constrained.

 

[Phaetos]

Ended up ordering the EVGA GTX 750Ti FTW from Newegg. Can't wait for it to get here.

Now my question is this, since the GPU is integrated to my current setup, by removing the Catalyst drivers, will that also remove my motherboard and system drivers as well? And how do I keep Windows from reinstalling the catalyst drivers upon boot with the new card installed?

 

[Phaetos]

Long story short Newegg screwed the delivery and I never got the card. Purchased a PNY XL8R 750Ti locally and put that in. Works beautifully, not loud at all. Games are playing great, even Final Fantasy XIV plays very well.

Thanks for all the help in deciding what to get.