New work out strategy ... thoughts.

[IHateMyJob2004]

I used to exercise at night and still will to some degree. But a big part of this change is that I want to get up earlier and go to bed earlier. Tell me what you think.

Saturday:
5 am: wake up and lift (upper body)

Sunday:
5 am: wake up and run 3+ miles. Work on getting endurance up so I can do 1 hours runs.
4 PM: lift (lower body)

Repeat:
do Saturday/Sunday cycle going in Monday->Thursday taking Friday off

If it is raining on a run morning, I skip running and treat it as recovery time.

Rational:
I figure doing running and lower body weights 12 hours later will provide 2 nights and 1 day of recovery for the lower body.

Weights:
Upper Body:
Bent over Rows (Pendaly rows)
Bench Press
Military Press
Lat Pull down
Arm curls

might also do:
incline press
dumbbell flys
shoulder shrugs

Lower body:
Squats
Deads
Situps
Toe raises
Good mornings

5x5 or 4x5 or 3x5?
I was doing 5x5. I think I am beyond that now.
Should I stay with 5x5 or move to 4x5 or 3x5? I am mostly doing this to fight boredom.

Thoughts?
Please provide opinions. I might change run to run or bike. Don't know yet.

 

[Lamont Burns]

If you are going to military and bench in one day, I don't see the need to add in incline press. Incline flys if you really feel the need. I would shrug tho. Your Lat Pulls and Pendlay rows won't slam your traps, and neither will military press to a certain degree. I'm jaded b/c I love shrugs. I also prefer high rep shrugs.

If you are fighting boredom change is good. If you are losing motivation it happens, but this is a lifestyle choice here.

Rule #1 - Do something you like. I hate running, I am jealous of those who enjoy it. Only cardio I can stomach is sports, which I can do forever. That or a circuit of weight training crossfit styleish.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Ya, I love shrugs to. High rep to buld mass.

Military press does traps at the end of the motion as the bar peaks in height. Targetting is the best way to build traps though. 3 months of high reps in the past has created impressive results.

For a whle I was doing bench, close grip incline and dumbbell flys. Based on a program, I read in a magazine. I hate to say it, but it worked and worked damn well.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

To add some sets/reps to the discussion (workout weight only listed). Note that I am recovering from a groin injury so I am very light weight on squats now. So I will be starting with deads at 5x5 and eventually shift that to 3x5.

Upper Body:
5x5 - Bent over Rows (Pendaly rows)
5x5 - Bench Press
5x5 - Military Press
5x5 - Lat Pull down
4x10 - Arm curls

might also do:
3x5 - incline press
4x10 - dumbbell flys
5x10 - shoulder shrugs

Lower body:
5x5 - Squats
5x5 - Deads (this will drop to 3x5 as squat weight progresses)
3x5 - Situps/Ab roll outs
5x15 - Toe raises
3x10 - Good mornings

My thoughts:
I want to cap my workout at 90 minutes. I might reduce sets on any 5x exercise to save time if time becomes an issue.

Also, I might start writing an application to do all this. I want something that is easy and quick to use. Right now I use paper and pen and it works well. I want something that is just as fast to use via app. But I can't find it.

Exercise rotation:
I typically do 3 exercises at once. I shift stations/set up as muscle groups recover. Tends to save time. For example (ww=workout weight):
Bench 135x10
Bench 155x5
Bench 175x2
Lat pull 50x10
Bench 190x5 (ww-1)
Lat Pull 100x10
Pendaly 130x5
Bench 190x5 (ww-2)
Lat Pull 140x10 (ww-1)
Pendaly 140x5 (ww-1)
Bench 190x5 (ww-3)
Lat Pull 140x10 (ww-2)
Pendaly 140x5 (ww-2)

... etc ....
As I finish an exercise, I'll replace it with the next one on the list. It's a nice way of doing warmup sets for an exercise while recovering from a working set of another.

NOTE:
I am lucky enough to have gotten some sets used cheap (one olympic set and tree I got for $80, another $100). So I can set up for squats and derads and rotate between them while having plenty of other plate to set up a thirda olmpyic bar for toe raises.

 

[Lamont Burns]

My opinion? Your back is still in noob gain potential mode. Benching 190 and pulling 140 on a Pendlay stuck out as odd to me. Mine are about the same typically at 205 atm for work sets.

I'm a taller guy tho, pulling always seems so much easier.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Not sure what I can do about Pendalays. If I need to do extra back exercises, what could I do. I'm in my basement, not in a gym so there are some limitations. Just increase sets of pendalay? Now, Pendalays are back parallel to the floor. Is that what you are doing? If you are not parallel, you can do more weight. If you are closer to vertical, 1:1 ratios are common. Maybe I should consider doing yates rows granted I have read about bicep injury risk regarding those.

I tried the above workout today for upper body. I have to cut back on sets on the accessory exercises. I was just tired after 70 minutes. Feel like I got a good workout though.

I need to better plan this. I have 3 upper body days. I think I'll do each isolation only one or two days a week to save some time.

I view the primary exercises to be:
Bench Press
Military Press
Pendalay Rows

To a lesser extent, lat pull downs are primary.

So, maybe each upper body day:
5x5 bench
5x5 military press
5x5 pendalay
3x5 lat pull downs (wide grip)

Saturday:
3x10 dips
3x10 pull ups (palms away)
3x8 dumbbell flys
3x5 close grip incline

Monday:
3x10 concentration curls
3x10 dips
4x10 shoulder shrugs
3x5 close grip incline

Wednesday:
3x10 concentration curls
3x10 pull ups (palms away)
4x10 shoulder shrugs
3x8 dumbbell flys

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

FWIW:
Most people can lift the most weight in this progression: deadlift > squat > bench > power cleans or rows > press.
- source: Rippetoe

 

[repoman0]

I do 3x5 Pendlay rows (back parallel to floor) at 145lbs and my bench is the same. I find the rows to be easier to do properly than bench and I only weigh around 160.

You should be well ahead of me, can you post a video of your rows?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Personally, that program looks like the road to overtraining in 6-8 weeks. I'm not against two-a-days, but I'm definitely not FOR lifting 6 days a week with cardio every other day. Typically, unless you're doing it for sport, I say choose one - cardio OR strength training. That is, unless, you're doing circuit work or strong-man style training. Honestly though, most people's bodies can't stand up to that kind of volume. I'm a fairly firm believer in lifting 3x per week and working cardio in between. I've noticed that's the best way I perform and recover. Even with that, I have to take extra days off just because I feel over worked. If you think it's alright, that's fine. Just be careful and receptive enough to back off if you start getting small injuries here an there. That's a telltale sign you're doing too much.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

SC,

Ya, I've overworked my body in the past. I might be heading down the same path. My knees would start hurting.

I am going to be open to adjusting things as I go.

Might do:
Saturday: Heavy
Sunday: Heavy
Monday: Light
Tuesday: Light
Wednesday: Heavy
Thursday: Heavy

Also, for running, I think that goal of 1 hour runs is a bit overkill. Probably 30-40 minute runs will be the real goal (3-5 miles). Today I did a 20 minute run in pouring rain. I also might do cycling mixed in also to help with recovery.

I'm fully intending on tweaking it as I go.

Probably do a week off every 6-8 weeks.

Not sure if it was obvious, but I am basically doing the exercises in strong lifts, but I split them into a 2 day split routine.

 

[Lamont Burns]

So, maybe each upper body day:
5x5 bench
5x5 military press
5x5 pendalay
3x5 lat pull downs (wide grip)

Saturday:
3x10 dips
3x10 pull ups (palms away)
3x8 dumbbell flys
3x5 close grip incline

Monday:
3x10 concentration curls
3x10 dips
4x10 shoulder shrugs
3x5 close grip incline

Wednesday:
3x10 concentration curls
3x10 pull ups (palms away)
4x10 shoulder shrugs
3x8 dumbbell flys

I grew up on Rippetoe having done 3 cycles of SS before moving to a split. I do Pendlay, not Yates.

Your routine lacks shoulder work. Shrugs are a trap movement, back. You only really work your lateral delt and rear delt on those MPs, but plenty of anterior work on Dips and Benches.

If you can Pendlay row, why not upright row? Great shoulder and trap work in one. Use a shoulder width grip to work the shoulders more than traps. Just a thought.

Also no need to say "palms away," when you say pull up. If they were in, chin up. Unless you are neutral grip which means you are a weirdo!

I do weights 5 days a week and recover fine. SC is just a baddie!

 

[surfsatwerk]

More Klokov Presses.

http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_on...raining_performance_bodybuilding/klokov_press

 

[SociallyChallenged]

More Klokov Presses.

http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_on...raining_performance_bodybuilding/klokov_press

Ugh, no. Those are horrendous if you don't have perfect, beautiful shoulder ROM. Most people don't, especially those who work at a computer all day. Essentially, you're putting yourself in the optimal position for shoulder dislocation and then applying a huge torque to move the weight. People who have a forward shoulder (or anteriorly translated humerus, which is insanely common) will be at high risk of subluxation or dislocatio. Granted, the guy in the video is a professional athlete. He lifts and mobilizes all day every day. He has full shoulder ROM. Most people do not.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Ugh, no. Those are horrendous if you don't have perfect, beautiful shoulder ROM. Most people don't, especially those who work at a computer all day. Essentially, you're putting yourself in the optimal position for shoulder dislocation and then applying a huge torque to move the weight. People who have a forward shoulder (or anteriorly translated humerus, which is insanely common) will be at high risk of subluxation or dislocatio. Granted, the guy in the video is a professional athlete. He lifts and mobilizes all day every day. He has full shoulder ROM. Most people do not.

Not trying to get people hurt, just something I added to the routine that I enjoy immensely. I've done a significant amount of mobility work with my shoulders in the past so maybe that's why I haven't had issues.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

FWIW: I have also read that Klokov Presses (aka: behind the neck military press) are not safe.

Curious though. Where is your hand grip. I watched video on it and it seems to be a very wide grip type of exercise.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

FWIW: I have also read that Klokov Presses (aka: behind the neck military press) are not safe.

Curious though. Where is your hand grip. I watched video on it and it seems to be a very wide grip type of exercise.

It's essentially a snatch-grip behind-the-neck press. I dont even support normal grip behind-the-neck press because of the injury potential.

surfsatwerk: That may be the case. I just had to say that I think they're a risky exercise due to the position and ROM required. I'd shred my shoulders' insides if I did those.

 

[blackdogdeek]

It's essentially a snatch-grip behind-the-neck press. I dont even support normal grip behind-the-neck press because of the injury potential.

surfsatwerk: That may be the case. I just had to say that I think they're a risky exercise due to the position and ROM required. I'd shred my shoulders' insides if I did those.

this sounds like the type of exercise wherein i'd subluxate or dislocate my shoulder on the return to the back rack position.

hey what do you know? that happened to me 2 weeks ago!

 

[SociallyChallenged]

this sounds like the type of exercise wherein i'd subluxate or dislocate my shoulder on the return to the back rack position.

hey what do you know? that happened to me 2 weeks ago!

Bing bing. Snatch balance is a better exercise if you get enough hip drive, but if you don't, you just do that press And it causes bad times.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Just tried teh Wednesday workout this morning:

5x5 bench
5x5 military press
5x5 pendalay
3x10 lat pull downs (wide grip)
3x10 concentration curls

3x10 pull ups (palms away)
4x10 shoulder shrugs
3x8 dumbbell flys

I jsut ran out of time so I couldn't finish the last 3. Would it be acceptable to do those last three at night when I get home? I was hoping to have the afternoons off on upper body days.

 

[Lamont Burns]

You are unhelpable (not a word I know). You live in the minutia of the 80% that does not matter. I can't read or post in your threads anymore in H&F.

I'll just hang out in the USG fan forum!

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Umm, OK.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Just tried teh Wednesday workout this morning:

5x5 bench
5x5 military press
5x5 pendalay
3x10 lat pull downs (wide grip)
3x10 concentration curls

3x10 pull ups (palms away)
4x10 shoulder shrugs
3x8 dumbbell flys

I jsut ran out of time so I couldn't finish the last 3. Would it be acceptable to do those last three at night when I get home? I was hoping to have the afternoons off on upper body days.

Way too much pressing volume. Way too much volume in general, if you're trying to gain strength. You know how we talked about overtraining? This is how you get it. You shouldn't be doing two press exercises for 5x5 in one day. Pick one. Switch every workout.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

SC,

I'll look into changing things up

thanks.