New York joins the holy war against smokers

OatMan

Senior member
Aug 2, 2001
677
0
71
ny times

You can make an account for free to read NY times articles.

As a non-smoker I hate being around tobacco smoke, but even I think this is beyond rediculous. Then again, I couldn't afford to pay $7.50 a pack to smoke in NY anyway.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,996
14,507
146
Can you please cut and paste it here for those who don't want to sign up?
 

loup garou

Lifer
Feb 17, 2000
35,132
1
81
Bloomberg Seeks to Ban Smoking in Every Restaurant and Bar
By JENNIFER STEINHAUER


he Bloomberg administration will ask the City Council to amend New York City's antismoking law to include all restaurants and bars, making it one of the toughest in the nation.

The current law, passed in 1995, forbids smoking in all restaurants with more than 35 seats, and excludes stand-alone bars and the bar areas of all restaurants. The proposed amendment would add roughly 13,000 establishments that would be forced to ban smoking entirely.

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A state bill banning smoking in all restaurants passed the Assembly this year and had enough support to pass in the Senate. But under pressure from Gov. George E. Pataki, who insisted on exempting small restaurants, and a heavy lobbying campaign by restaurant groups and the tobacco and liquor industries, the Senate's Republican leaders never put the bill to a vote.

However, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg ? who, along with his health commissioner, Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, is persistently anti-tobacco ? views bars and restaurants as workplaces before social establishments, and has said that employees within them should have the same option of a smoke-free environment as those who work in offices.

"The mayor will push this," one administration official said, "for all the same reasons he pushed the cigarette tax. He makes changes to things that he thinks are important."

Mr. Bloomberg gained approval from Albany this year to raise the taxes on cigarettes, making the cost of a pack about $7.50 in the city. The administration is expected to announce its plans to amend the antismoking law on Monday. Even cigar bars, if they serve alcohol, are likely to be included in the legislation.

In the last month, the mayor has quietly lined up support in the Council, where several members are likely to sponsor a bill at his request forcing all smoking New Yorkers to do their puffing outdoors. (Under the 1995 law, smoking was outlawed in public places like theaters and offices.)

Among those consulted was Councilman James S. Oddo from Staten Island, who came up with his own more modest bill this spring to expand the smoking laws to small restaurants. Hearings were never held on the bill.

"The health commissioner and the mayor make a very compelling argument for legislation that goes well beyond my bill," he said yesterday. "I am seriously considering sponsoring it."

Edward Skyler, a spokesman for Mr. Bloomberg, would not comment last night.

Timothy Filler, the associate director of Americans for Nonsmokers' Rights, said the amendment "would be hugely significant."

"New York is a bellwether and a city that many others look toward as a leader," he added. "If New York City were to do something that included restaurants and bars, it would be a great step forward in public health."

The city is bound to meet some resistance from both some restaurants and bars and those that represent them, although the New York State Restaurant Association recently reversed its longstanding opposition to the proposed state law after a survey showed that 76 percent of its 7,000 members favored the law.

"Our position has been that we have some of the strictest rules in the country, and we have learned to live with them, and we think they should be left alone," said E. Charles Hunt, the executive vice president of the restaurant association.

However, he added: "If a total ban is proposed in all public places, I think people are going to say nobody has an advantage over anyone else and would seriously consider whether or not that might work. The whole thing seems to be boiling down to an employee safety issue at this point."

Lawmakers in Nassau and Suffolk Counties are considering similar measures, officials there said.

If such a law were passed, New York City would join two states ? California and Delaware ? and scores of municipalities that ban smoking in just about every workplace, including bars and restaurants.

Three other states ? Maine, Utah and Vermont ? have statewide bans on smoking in all restaurants. Municipalities have been more aggressive in seeking tough and broad antismoking laws, largely because local legislatures are less vulnerable to the powerful tobacco industry lobby.

New York State law requires that a restaurant have a nonsmoking area that encompasses at least 70 percent of its seats, but the smoking area can be in the same room.

There are 72 municipalities in America that ban smoking in any restaurant or bar, according to Mr. Filler, and hundreds offer some other variation on a law against public smoking, allowing people to light up in stand-alone bars, or permitting smoking in restaurant bars that have separate ventilation systems.

In California, where the Legislature passed a law in 1994 that banned smoking in all workplaces, including bars and restaurants, many tavern and restaurant owners feared dire economic consequences. Some studies, including one by the state's sales tax collection agency in 1998, actually showed an increase in sales after the law was enacted.

"I don't believe a New Yorker would choose a steakhouse in Weehawken over Ruth's Chris in New York City because of a smoking regulation," Mr. Oddo said yesterday.

Mr. Bloomberg, who has a school of public health named after him, is aggressively antismoking. When he lobbied for his cigarette tax, he insisted that he did not care whether the city made or lost money, but rather that the tax would keep children from smoking. He has been known to chide reporters for their puffing, and has takes slaps at the tobacco industry in speeches.

He has found a kindred spirit in Dr. Frieden, the health commissioner, who said when he was appointed that his main priority would be to combat smoking. Dr. Frieden has even produced a radio advertisement deploring secondhand smoke.

I think it's ridiculous, at least for bars.
 

OS

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
15,581
1
76

'holy war against smokers', ahahahahahahaha

Man, I don't even smoke and I think it's insane that the price of cigarettes is approaching ten dollars a pack. :Q I think like 7 years ago, it was a mere dollar for a pack.

As long as there are smoking and non smoking sections, I don't care if someone wants to puff on a cancer stick.

 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
6,369
0
71
I think this is awesome. I just moved from California to Maryland and one of the things I miss the most is the smoke free environment California offered. Smoking is a disgusting habit and it should be banned from all enclosed public places.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,215
14
81
What's stopping people from driving to neighboring states and buying their smokes cheaper...I think that article is totally rediculous and sort of reminds me when goverment *tryed* to enforce prohibition...

ausm
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,996
14,507
146
However, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg ? who, along with his health commissioner, Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, is persistently anti-tobacco ? views bars and restaurants as workplaces before social establishments, and has said that employees within them should have the same option of a smoke-free environment as those who work in offices.

A job is a consensual agreement. The employee has the choice to work there, or not to work there. If they choose to work in an environment with tobacco smoke, that is their choice. If they don't like it, they can leave.

Another twisted sense of entitlement raises it's ugly head.

A PRIVATE business is just that, private. If a business owner chooses to alienate non-smokers by allowing smoking, that should be HIS/HER choice.

 

jaeger66

Banned
Jan 1, 2001
3,852
0
0
Nobody gets it. The more forbidden smoking is, the more appealing it becomes to kids.
 

loup garou

Lifer
Feb 17, 2000
35,132
1
81
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
However, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg ? who, along with his health commissioner, Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, is persistently anti-tobacco ? views bars and restaurants as workplaces before social establishments, and has said that employees within them should have the same option of a smoke-free environment as those who work in offices.

A job is a consensual agreement. The employee has the choice to work there, or not to work there. If they choose to work in an environment with tobacco smoke, that is their choice. If they don't like it, they can leave.

Another twisted sense of entitlement raises it's ugly head.

A PRIVATE business is just that, private. If a business owner chooses to alienate non-smokers by allowing smoking, that should be HIS/HER choice.
Thank you, AmusedOne. Very well said.

 

AaronP

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
4,359
0
0
Is it fair? NO
Is it stupid to ban cigs in bars? YES

However, I am so sick of breathing smoke and smelling it, that I am for this.

Its nice to see ANTI-Smoking republicans are getting pretty common now.
 

BeeVo

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2000
1,076
0
0
Even though I don't smoke I think taxing a certain set of people because the way live there life is unfair. I feel if you want to smoke and it doesn't bother me fine. If you want an SUV go ahead I don't care either.
 

N8Magic

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
11,624
1
81
I smoke, and I agree it is a good idea.

Our county has had this type of ban in effect for a couple of years now, and trust me, you get used to it very quickly. Although there are a few small bars that thumb their nose at the law, most comply, and it makes dining out and going to bars/clubs that much more enjoyable. To be perfectly honest, I actually prefer smoking outdoors.
 

Pepsei

Lifer
Dec 14, 2001
12,895
1
0
Originally posted by: AaronP
Is it fair? NO
Is it stupid to ban cigs in bars? YES
However, I am so sick of breathing smoke and smelling it, that I am for this.
Its nice to see ANTI-Smoking republicans are getting pretty common now.

Yep, nice to see ANIT-Smoking republicans who are not influenced by the tobaco company....
ironic thing is... philip morris has a marketing dept in new york city....

a pack is 3.75 here in virginia....

 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
6,369
0
71
Originally posted by: Nefrodite
bah, does he drink coffee or wine or beer? should tax those too eh? bastid politicians.

The problem is that these don't compare equally with smoking. My drinking coffee, wine or beer does not have even the slightest chance of killing you and has very little affect (if any) on you (other than bad breath ). The case where this changes if when I decide to drive after drinking. We all know drinking and driving is already illegal.

This is not the case for smoking. At the very least, people who smoke introduce materials in the air that makes it more difficult for me to breath than without them. In addition, when surrounded by second hand smoke, I start to smell like it. When taken to the other extreme, people are making cases that second hand smoke causes various types of cancer that can and will kill.

I think chewing tobacco is more like drinking coffee, wine or beer - not smoking.
 

Nefrodite

Banned
Feb 15, 2001
7,931
0
0
tobaco might be worse then coffee, thats a given, but many things are bad for you look how fat americans are, maybe he should have taxed all fast food first


I think chewing tobacco is more like drinking coffee, wine or beer - not smoking.


well i wouldn't say that. chewing tobacco is as cancer causing as you can get. lose chunks of your mouth and face because of that nasty habit. where did you get the idea it was safe? baseball? ick
 

Pepsei

Lifer
Dec 14, 2001
12,895
1
0
Originally posted by: BeeVo
Even though I don't smoke I think taxing a certain set of people because the way live there life is unfair. I feel if you want to smoke and it doesn't bother me fine. If you want an SUV go ahead I don't care either.


right, it's unfair i 'm taxed for my house because i want to live in a house...
unfair to tax my car because i choose to drive instead of walk.....

thing is... once people get used to it.. most people pay up... there are some country (even a few states here) that didn't have salestax and were suprised by moving to another place....
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: AmusedOne
However, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg ? who, along with his health commissioner, Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, is persistently anti-tobacco ? views bars and restaurants as workplaces before social establishments, and has said that employees within them should have the same option of a smoke-free environment as those who work in offices.

A job is a consensual agreement. The employee has the choice to work there, or not to work there. If they choose to work in an environment with tobacco smoke, that is their choice. If they don't like it, they can leave.

Another twisted sense of entitlement raises it's ugly head.

A PRIVATE business is just that, private. If a business owner chooses to alienate non-smokers by allowing smoking, that should be HIS/HER choice.

Should we also allow them to serve spoiled food and put arsenic in the water? How about we just abolish all the labor laws- no breaks, no minimum wage , no overtime, etc.

My point is not to ridicule your argument put to try to show that extremes are possible in either direction. There's a happy medium to be found. Restaraunts/bars should have smoking/non-smoking sections. People should be hired accordingly.

Dave

 
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