New York joins the holy war against smokers

[MrDingleDangle]

Originally posted by: Nefrodite
bah, does he drink coffee or wine or beer? should tax those too eh? bastid politicians.

yes im sure he does...he even admitted to smoking marijuanna in the past (and enjoying it)..

but his point is that smoking indoors effects other people besides the person doing it...my friend who is a bartender in baltimore and doesnt smoke has told me that working in his bar it feels like he has smoked half a pack when he gets home at night because it gets so filled with smoke

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: Nefrodite
tobaco might be worse then coffee, thats a given, but many things are bad for you look how fat americans are, maybe he should have taxed all fast food first

I think chewing tobacco is more like drinking coffee, wine or beer - not smoking.

well i wouldn't say that. chewing tobacco is as cancer causing as you can get. lose chunks of your mouth and face because of that nasty habit. where did you get the idea it was safe? baseball? ick

I totally agree that chewing tobacco is as dangerous to the chewer as smoking is to the smoker. But my chewing tobacco will not cause you cancer.

I also agree that chewing tobacco is a totally disgusting habit.

I was simply saying that comparing drinking coffee to chewing tobacco is a better comparison than it is to smoking.

 

[Vic]

When will the busybodies in this country ever stop trying to create a Nanny State? :|

The purpose of this law and all others like it is not to curtail smoking (or not much) but to bankrupt the small restaurant/bar industry. Basically, it's just the return of the Anti-Saloon Leagues a hundred years later.

It doesn't work, it won't work, it's anti-Christian (yes, it is, read that book in your hands), life is dangerous, get the fsck over it.

 

[Nefrodite]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Nefrodite
tobaco might be worse then coffee, thats a given, but many things are bad for you look how fat americans are, maybe he should have taxed all fast food first

I think chewing tobacco is more like drinking coffee, wine or beer - not smoking.

well i wouldn't say that. chewing tobacco is as cancer causing as you can get. lose chunks of your mouth and face because of that nasty habit. where did you get the idea it was safe? baseball? ick

I totally agree that chewing tobacco is as dangerous to the chewer as smoking is to the smoker. But my chewing tobacco will not cause you cancer.

I also agree that chewing tobacco is a totally disgusting habit.

I was simply saying that comparing drinking coffee to chewing tobacco is a better comparison than it is to smoking.

oh hehe

but his point is that smoking indoors effects other people besides the person doing it...my friend who is a bartender in baltimore and doesnt smoke has told me that working in his bar it feels like he has smoked half a pack when he gets home at night because it gets so filled with smoke

well taxing smoking has nothing to do with smoking in doors. just ban smoking indoors like we do in california. or atleast the part where i live. u can't even smoke in bars. u can smoke at home or whatever though do what u want



isn't the guy a republican? whatever happened to big government more taxes.. grumble

 

[MrDingleDangle]

Originally posted by: Nefrodite

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Nefrodite
tobaco might be worse then coffee, thats a given, but many things are bad for you look how fat americans are, maybe he should have taxed all fast food first

I think chewing tobacco is more like drinking coffee, wine or beer - not smoking.

well i wouldn't say that. chewing tobacco is as cancer causing as you can get. lose chunks of your mouth and face because of that nasty habit. where did you get the idea it was safe? baseball? ick

I totally agree that chewing tobacco is as dangerous to the chewer as smoking is to the smoker. But my chewing tobacco will not cause you cancer.

I also agree that chewing tobacco is a totally disgusting habit.

I was simply saying that comparing drinking coffee to chewing tobacco is a better comparison than it is to smoking.

oh hehe

but his point is that smoking indoors effects other people besides the person doing it...my friend who is a bartender in baltimore and doesnt smoke has told me that working in his bar it feels like he has smoked half a pack when he gets home at night because it gets so filled with smoke

well taxing smoking has nothing to do with smoking in doors. just ban smoking indoors like we do in california. or atleast the part where i live. u can't even smoke in bars. u can smoke at home or whatever though do what u want

thats what he is trying to do now...i thought thats what this thread was about

 

[OatMan]

Thanks werk for posting the text, i was trying to save bandwidth (which I'll now waste)

I can't believe I am inclined to defend smokers rights, but I agree with much of the sentiment here that this is extreme.

The argument that the cost of the health risk is overly expensive is dubious. That was true for a time, but not now. I rarely if ever have any problem in public places as a non-smoker. The only exception is Bars/clubs. But like has already been said, I can choose not to go, or deal.

The hazardous workplace argument is tougher. That is a pretty legitimate concern. Perhaps it should be dealt with like other hazardous work environments such as deep sea drilling and mining. Bring in OSHA? I don't know. But I have to admit that the argument that you can choose not to work there is bogus. That has always been the mantra of those who have opposed any UNION. That is also a dangerous mentality. People have the right to a safe work environment. But there is also the proportions. The total number of workers who are really at risk versus the impact to consumers/ businesses. Perhaps an optional zoning, that allows smoking sections in bars/ restaurants when certain conditions and requirements are met - air purifiers, gass masks

A free society must allow for the freedom to make a bad decision. There must be some kind of balance. Yes society must also protect its citizens, but to what degree. Should I be arrested for paying too much for car insurance? Should we sue the team that loses the super bowl? Should all contact sports be banned, i mean someone could get hurt.

I don't have the answer, but I suspect that there are solutions other than this kind of extreme.

 

[Nefrodite]

yes, but he started the tax first a tad over kill eh? simple ban on indoor public smoking would be enough. that you can argue for because of public health. but vice taxes? if your going to do vice taxes you'd better be honest and go after all bad things, not just ones that are politically expedient.


tax that fatty big mac!!

 

[OatMan]

whoa there PSYWVic:

When will the busybodies in this country ever stop trying to create a Nanny State?

The purpose of this law and all others like it is not to curtail smoking (or not much) but to bankrupt the small restaurant/bar industry. Basically, it's just the return of the Anti-Saloon Leagues a hundred years later.

It doesn't work, it won't work, it's anti-Christian (yes, it is, read that book in your hands), life is dangerous, get the fsck over it.

I don't know if that was toungue in cheek or what, but I agree with the Nanny State part.

As for the conspiracy to bankrupt the small restaurant/bar industry, well perhaps Mayor Bloomberg is a self-hating chef?

I'll - uhm - leave the other part alone...

 

[ThePresence]

While I'm sure there are people who are concerned about 2nd hand smoke, I believe that MOST of the people complaining that they cant take other's smoke, just plain dont like it or think it's disgusting, not because it's dangerous. If that's true, then screw everyone, I'm smoking. If you dont like it, step away from me. This is...WAS a free country.

 

[Sachmho]

tobaco might be worse then coffee, thats a given, but many things are bad for you look how fat americans are, maybe he should have taxed all fast food first

eating fast food does not harm those around you. WISE UP NEPHRODITE. you aren't applying logic here. stop failing to see points

 

[NuclearFusi0n]

Originally posted by: Nefrodite
bah, does he drink coffee or wine or beer? should tax those too eh? bastid politicians.

coffee, wine, and beer dont magically float over to the guy next to you

 

[vash]

Originally posted by: jaeger66
Nobody gets it. The more forbidden smoking is, the more appealing it becomes to kids.

You hit it right on the head. The more forbidden ANYTHING is, the more appealing it becomes to people who can't have it. Teenagers, typically, want to break rules and be "free" of their chains. This means doing socially unaccepted things like smoking tobacco, pot, drinking, unprotected sex, etc. The more we hamper down on things, the more people want them.

As soon as the government realizes that they are fighting a losing battle against under age drinking, drugs, prostitution and many other forms of what we consider "liberties", we'll have a more well adjusted society.

vash

 

[OatMan]

oh, so what people can still smoke outside right? Perhaps not, according to the Post. Clearly the intent is to ban smoking uterly, just in piece meal. Hey where is the ACLU?

August 13, 2002 -- Anti-smoking advocates who convinced Mayor Bloomberg to propose a tough new law banning butts in bars, company cars and all restaurants have already zeroed in on their next targets: parks and beaches.
"Our parks don't allow alcoholic beverages. Our parks don't allow dogs in a lot of them. They don't allow loud music. But they still allow smoking," said Joe Cherner, the city's leading anti-smoking spokesman.

"Eventually, after this legislation, we would like to see smoke-free beaches and smoke-free parks addressed."

Cherner was one of two dozen people who joined the mayor in City Hall Park yesterday to promote a bill extending the city's smoking ban to bars, billiard and bingo parlors, all restaurants, outdoor cafes, city vehicles and company cars if a single occupant objects.

Bloomberg even suggested that smoking be outlawed in tobacco shops.

"If people work there, it shouldn't be allowed," he said, apparently unaware that his new bill specifically excludes those shops.

The mayor gave up smoking nearly 20 years ago - sources said he favored "tipped" cigars - and, by his words and deeds in recent days, he's made it clear he's on a crusade to stamp out the nicotine habit in New York.

Last week, he called smokers "crazy." Yesterday, he added "stupid."

Upping the ante, Bloomberg then warned, "It's not hard to see someday some child suing their parents if the child comes down with cancer. That's probably going to happen."

Philip Morris, the cigarette giant headquartered here, was singled out for attack by James Oddo, the City Council Republican leader.

"This battle is about us and Philip Morris, and what they're trying to do to New Yorkers," said Oddo.

Brendan McCormick, a Philip Morris spokesman, responded that the new bill was far too restrictive, especially for small businesses, and that he hoped the council would keep an open mind.

Bloomberg suggested the anti-smoking bill was a done deal, mentioning assurances he had from Council Speaker Gifford Miller.

But Miller's top aide, Forrest Taylor, criticized the mayor for disclosing a private discussion and merely committed to "a full and fair hearing at the appropriate time."

 

[CubicZirconia]

Originally posted by: jaeger66
Nobody gets it. The more forbidden smoking is, the more appealing it becomes to kids.

On the other hand, the lack of smoking in restaurants will reduce the amount of exposure kids have to smoking. This might counteract the effect. Besides, I don't think banning smoking in restaurants would really make more kids start smoking. If smoking was banned entirely, then yes, it would probably become more appealing to some.

 

[aphex]

I think that smoking should be banned from resturaunts, but from bars? Thats a little crazy...

 

[db]

Common courtesy would have kept these laws at bay for probably at least a decade.
But so many smokers (not all) smoked without the least concern for the discomfort of non-smokers--
so the usual thing happened: everybody is punished with a broad law b/c of the sins of some inconsiderate people.

 

[Russ]

What's stopping people from driving to neighboring states and buying their smokes cheaper...

They don't even have to leave their own state:

The answer to the busy-body do-gooder scumsucking leeches and thieves. Right there in New York state. American Indians RULE!

Russ, NCNE

 

[Beau]

Originally posted by: Russ

What's stopping people from driving to neighboring states and buying their smokes cheaper...

They don't even have to leave their own state:

The answer to the busy-body do-gooder scumsucking leeches and thieves. Right there in New York state. American Indians RULE!

Russ, NCNE

Ah yes, Russ's goldmine

 

[BD231]

Making smoking illigal is what I want to see, although I know that would bring up serious fredome issues. I'd rather be around people smoking weed than cigg's. When I see a person smoking it sickens me to know that they don't give a rats ass about their body like that, and the fact that I have to inhale that 2'nd hand crap is completely uncool. I think this is a totally good thing to be doing though, when it comes straight down to it, its unfair for an average american to be subject to another persons stupidity, carelessness and addiction. If anything it should be banned out of consideration for people who DONT want to kill themselves.

 

[db]

It's a monument to self-centeredness, selfishness and total disregard for others when someone insists that their rights are being violated while their physical actions are causing others physical discomfort or sickness.

"I'm a 'persecuted smoker'---whaaaaaaaaaaaa! Someone should be concerned for me!"

 

[mchammer187]

They starting showing some commercials on Maryland tv that said they were gonna ban smoking in a lot of outdoor places a lot of place where cars are aloud to be.

I think this is ridiculous. I dislike smoking as much as the next person but this is ludicrous.

 

[BD231]

Originally posted by: mchammer187
They starting showing some commercials on Maryland tv that said they were gonna ban smoking in a lot of outdoor places a lot of place where cars are aloud to be.

I think this is ridiculous. I dislike smoking as much as the next person but this is ludicrous.

Explaining yourself is a good place to start....

 

[bonk102]

wish they'd raise the price across NY, not just teh city

 

[SpongeBob]

I think it's ridiculous to try and ban smoking in restaurants and bars.

<----Never smoked, but lives with 2 smokers and doesn't mind.

 

[Sketcher]

I'm fine with you diehard smokers continuing to smoke,

As long as:

A). It doesn't end up on my clothes when visiting public places.

B). Your "enjoying the outdoors" doesn't make my enjoyment of the outdoors unpleasant.

C). My insurance rates don't go up to cover your dumb ass. (broad generality, I can see the flames...)


Other than that, puff away.