New York Times: Donald Trump reports $916 million loss in 1995

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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
The thing that astonishes me, about those who support Trump and say they're not concerned that he won't release his tax returns, is that these same people generally accept Trump's allegations that a major source of the Clintons' income since Bill left office - Wall Street speaking fees, fully documented is the Clintons' tax returns - calls into question Hillary's ability to be independent from the influence of Wall Street. Yet isn't it interesting that these same Trump supporters also accept Trump's "there's nothing of interest in them" dismissal of requests for his own tax returns.

The point is, how can Trump supporters possibly know that Trump isn't up to his ears in "entanglements" over his own sources of income if he refuses to release his tax returns, and why is this fact so unimportant to them?

Clinton is a liar and trump is trustworthy. He even says believe me all the time, why wouldn't you.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
The thing that astonishes me, about those who support Trump and say they're not concerned that he won't release his tax returns, is that these same people generally accept Trump's allegations that a major source of the Clintons' income since Bill left office - Wall Street speaking fees, fully documented is the Clintons' tax returns - calls into question Hillary's ability to be independent from the influence of Wall Street. Yet isn't it interesting that these same Trump supporters also accept Trump's "there's nothing of interest" dismissal of requests for his own tax returns.

The point is, how can Trump supporters possibly know that Trump isn't up to his ears in "entanglements" over his own sources of income if he refuses to release his tax returns, and why is this fact so unimportant to them?

Because Trump's appeal has zero to do with thinking & everything to do with feeling.
 
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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Because Trump's appeal has zero to do with thinking & everything to do with feeling.

That is both sides. The difference is that right now the things the left says to trigger feelings leads to better outcomes. Just as the base of the *right used to be for small government, when it changed so did the rhetoric. If/when the right changes what it likes to hear, so will the rhetoric.
 
Last edited:

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Just like his campaign, Trump's business plan is based around being a deadbeat, promising things he knows he won't deliver.
This is the guy Trump supporters are backing:
I was thrilled to get a $100,000 contract from Trump. It was one of the biggest sales I'd ever made. I was supposed to deliver and tune the pianos; the Trump corporation would pay me within 90 days. I asked my lawyer if I should ask for payment upfront, and he laughed. "It's Donald Trump!" he told me. "He's got lots of money."

But when I requested payment, the Trump corporation hemmed and hawed. Its executives avoided my calls and crafted excuses. After a couple of months, I got a letter telling me that the casino was short on funds. They would pay 70 percent of what they owed me. There was no negotiating. I didn't know what to do -- I couldn't afford to sue the Trump corporation, and I needed money to pay my piano suppliers. So I took the $70,000.

Losing $30,000 was a big hit to me and my family. The profit from Trump was meant to be a big part of my salary for the year. So I made much less. There was no money to help grow my business. I had fewer pianos in the showroom and a smaller advertising budget. Because of Trump, my store stagnated for a couple of years. It made me feel really bad, like I'd been taken advantage of. I was embarrassed.


Today, when I hear Trump brag about paying small business owners less than he agreed, I get angry. He's always suggesting that the people who worked for him didn't do the right job, didn't complete their work on time, that something was wrong. But I delivered quality pianos, tuned and ready to go. I did everything right. And then Trump cheated me. It's a callous way to do business.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/p...antic-City-Taj-Mahal-casino-presidential.html
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
you gotta wonder if Trump specifically sought out a small business to deal with rather than a wholesaler or large reseller who would have had the resources to actually fight back in Trump tried to stiff them on the bill.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
That is both sides. The difference is that right now the things the left says to trigger feelings leads to better outcomes. Just as the base of the left used to be for small government, when it changed so did the rhetoric. If/when the right changes what it likes to hear, so will the rhetoric.

The thinkers here are the real feelers.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
That is both sides. The difference is that right now the things the left says to trigger feelings leads to better outcomes. Just as the base of the left used to be for small government, when it changed so did the rhetoric. If/when the right changes what it likes to hear, so will the rhetoric.

Bullshit. The base of the Left (whatever you think that means) has been for big govt ever since the New Deal.

Thanks for admitting that Dems intend better outcomes for the vast majority of Americans.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
you gotta wonder if Trump specifically sought out a small business to deal with rather than a wholesaler or large reseller who would have had the resources to actually fight back in Trump tried to stiff them on the bill.

Well that is likely. Its also true that bigger people would make sure to have lawyers make sure the contract is clear. So they would have double the advantage and he knew it.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Bullshit. The base of the Left (whatever you think that means) has been for big govt ever since the New Deal.

Thanks for admitting that Dems intend better outcomes for the vast majority of Americans.

Corrected. I had meant to say right, not left.

As for admitting that the Dems intend for better outcomes, I have said it many times which is why I consider myself on the left for most things.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,654
10,517
136
The thing that astonishes me, about those who support Trump and say they're not concerned that he won't release his tax returns, is that these same people generally accept Trump's allegations that a major source of the Clintons' income since Bill left office - Wall Street speaking fees, fully documented is the Clintons' tax returns - calls into question Hillary's ability to be independent from the influence of Wall Street. Yet isn't it interesting that these same Trump supporters also accept Trump's "there's nothing of interest in them" dismissal of requests for his own tax returns.

The point is, how can Trump supporters possibly know that Trump isn't up to his ears in "entanglements" over his own sources of income if he refuses to release his tax returns, and why is this fact so unimportant to them?
He's up to his ears in entanglements anyway, regardless if he show us his returns.
Blind Trusts my ass.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
He's up to his ears in entanglements anyway, regardless if he show us his returns.
Blind Trusts my ass.

He keeps speaking of a blind trust but what he describes is not a blind trust.
Having his kids run his business is far from blind and the fact that Trumps locations and realty business is well known its impossible to keep it blind.
Blind would be he sells everything then has a company invest his money for him without knowing what its invested in.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
It's about Trump being a barely-ambulatory Superfund site. He is an piece of shit wearing human skin--bringing his duped followers along for the brush fire.
Yeah, but whose skin? His own, or taken from someone else? It doesn't look very natural....
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
He keeps speaking of a blind trust but what he describes is not a blind trust.
Having his kids run his business is far from blind and the fact that Trumps locations and realty business is well known its impossible to keep it blind.
Blind would be he sells everything then has a company invest his money for him without knowing what its invested in.

That's the thing that kills me. No one is pressing him on this. We spent a month on Hillary and donations to a not for profit charity that is well respected and whether that would call her to grant favors to people. Yet, Trump has actual for profit businesses with foreign nations, yet no one has sought a clear answer as to what he would do if he won (and a blind a Trust is such a stupidly bad answer.)
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Well that is likely. Its also true that bigger people would make sure to have lawyers make sure the contract is clear. So they would have double the advantage and he knew it.

Please. The terms of the contract were never in dispute. Trump strongarmed the guy out of $30K. He, uhh, renegotiated the price by figuratively putting a gun to the guy's head.

"Take this, because I know you don't have the money to hire a lawyer & wait years to get paid."

Cornholio for you!
 
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Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
lol love the faux indignation. Straight forward yes or no answer. Is it possible that the money lost belonged to banks and investors and he himself didn't lose anything? If that is possible and he in turn takes those losses actually bore by others and offsets his own personal income is that not advantageous?

Is that scenario not perfectly legal and plausible?

No, it's not.

If a person borrows money from a bank (or other investor/lender) and loses that money, the cancellation or forgiveness of that debt results in income (income from cancellation debt). So, it will net out to zero. (I borrow $980 million and lose it I have a loss of $980M. If I don't pay back the loan I have $980M of COD income resulting in -0-.)

Tax law provides for non-taxation of COD income under certain instances. If an exception to taxation applies then the amount not taxed must be applied to reduce N.O.L.s (or other items) so that there is no tax benefit.

The US gov is NOT that stupid.

Also, a person cannot take losses attributable to others on their tax return. So, Trump couldn't deduct loses actually born by others.

Fern
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
This is a good article that people who care about understanding the situation should read.

I don't think it's a very good article. he's throwing around some terms and code sections and vaguely implying some benefit that he doesn't adequately explain. In addition, he claims that Trump's tax professionals reduced the basis in property (hotels etc) and this somehow is a great benefit. However, if you look at the section 108, which he refers to, you'll see that the law requires NOLs must be reduced first. Reduction in the basis of property is way down at "E".

Section 108 (in part)
(2) Tax attributes affected; order of reduction Except as provided in paragraph (5), the reduction referred to in paragraph (1) shall be made in the following tax attributes in the following order:

(A) NOL
Any net operating loss for the taxable year of the discharge, and any net operating loss carryover to such taxable year.

(B) General business credit
Any carryover to or from the taxable year of a discharge of an amount for purposes for determining the amount allowable as a credit under section 38 (relating to general business credit).

(C) Minimum tax credit
The amount of the minimum tax credit available under section 53(b) as of the beginning of the taxable year immediately following the taxable year of the discharge.

(D) Capital loss carryovers
Any net capital loss for the taxable year of the discharge, and any capital loss carryover to such taxable year under section 1212.

(E) Basis reduction
(i) In general
The basis of the property of the taxpayer.....

Fern
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
Does anyone here pay more taxes than they owe? No? I didn't think so. Quit acting childish as though he has some kind of moral obligation to pay more in taxes. Uncle Sam will gladly take a check in any amount and cash it regardless of you owing it or not.

You have a billion other things to bash him on - mostly his general stupid comments and lack of noteworthy policy.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
People have said Trump has never paid taxes, really smart people have said it. I trust really smart people some have said Trump has never paid taxes. You have to ask yourself why Trump is acting so suspicious about his taxes.

This would be much simpler if Trump just released his taxes like every other modern candidate has.

Anybody saying Trump never paid income taxes is a moron.

Statistically his chance of being is audited is 100%. You people really think the IRS is in cahoots with Trump and allowing him to skate on his income taxes? Really?

Jeebus, the desperation and insanity in this election is so over-the-top. I hear much more rational stuff from believers in ancient aliens. Congrats folks, you make them look reasonable by contrast.

Fern
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,668
3,067
136
Does anyone here pay more taxes than they owe? No? I didn't think so. Quit acting childish as though he has some kind of moral obligation to pay more in taxes. Uncle Sam will gladly take a check in any amount and cash it regardless of you owing it or not.

You have a billion other things to bash him on - mostly his general stupid comments and lack of noteworthy policy.

so a questionable Billion dollar loss, likely used to avoid taxes for the next two decades is no big deal to you?

acting childish would be ignoring the importance of this.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,526
136
Does anyone here pay more taxes than they owe? No? I didn't think so. Quit acting childish as though he has some kind of moral obligation to pay more in taxes. Uncle Sam will gladly take a check in any amount and cash it regardless of you owing it or not.

You have a billion other things to bash him on - mostly his general stupid comments and lack of noteworthy policy.

Sorry, going to bash him on this too. If you're constantly whining about how other people don't pay enough income taxes when (likely) paying none at all for years and years you deserve what you get.

Also, these returns seem to show the results of some truly colossally bad business decisions from a guy who says he makes great business decisions.
 
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